[Donatello.]

Originally Posted by KevinC

Z4M roadster should definitely be considered for all the reasons others are pointing out. I've owned 2 Z4M coupes - one from new for 8 years, and another for 2 years that I'd still have if it hadn't been hit. It's an incredibly fun platform, and the Roadsters sell for criminally cheap, far less than equivalent coupe brings - which makes the Roadster an incredible buy, especially if that was someone's desired configuration.

This old Richard Hammond video from back in the day sums the car up nicely in comparison to a period Boxster S ...

How does the Z4M compare to the ND2 Miata? I've only driven a regular Z4 and that was too long ago to remember everything, but I do recall almost buying it.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Donatello.

How does the Z4M compare to the ND2 Miata? I've only driven a regular Z4 and that was too long ago to remember everything, but I do recall almost buying it.

I think Throttle House has a video on that exact question.

[Alfisti]

There's just so much more power.

[vt100]

Originally Posted by Donatello.

How does the Z4M compare to the ND2 Miata? I've only driven a regular Z4 and that was too long ago to remember everything, but I do recall almost buying it.

Heavier in turns! You'd feel all the S54 weight in front of you when cornering

But, speaking of stock ND, Miata feels way too slow in straight line acceleration after Z4M. And it has vaugue steering, don't get me wrong, it's good but not nearly close to Z4M' steering. And feedback isn't as good neither.

Also body roll is much more pronounced in Miata. In a good way though, quite enjoyable when cornering.


Overall feeling - stock Miata is much more refined and easier to drive than Z4M.
Z4M demands more from you and much more edgy. Stock S54 gives just enough power to enjoy acceleration and not feel that it's slow.
And sitting position almost on the rear axle gives you feeling of sitting on the rocket' tail trying to steer it somehow But when it starts sliding you'd feel it sooner than in Miata

[3002 tii]

Having owned 3 Z4s (n52 coupe, s54 roadster and s54 coupe), yes I am biased but the reason I was drawn back each time is because the car is that special. The E86 is such a timeless design. Is it polarizing? For sure but to have that many people split over’s Bangle masterpiece says a lot (vs majority uniformly agreeing new BMWs look like Kia’s). As others have said, best way to recap the car is analog feel, high revving, naturally aspirated i6, short wheel base, driver focused cockpit and 6 speed m/t. Doesn’t get more purpose built than that imo.

The cons? Any high mileage s54 comes with high maintenance cost but what M car doesn’t? And the going prices are so low it more than offsets that imo. Outside of that, make sure you get a non-Navi spec as they’re painfully outdated. And lastly as much as I loved the roadster, the soft tops are not as durable as Audi imo. They will all need replacing at some point and good luck finding someone who will do it for reasonable price. Even just replacing the soft top motor is a major pain. Get the coupe and you avoid all those headaches.

Originally Posted by Donatello.

How does the Z4M compare to the ND2 Miata? I've only driven a regular Z4 and that was too long ago to remember everything, but I do recall almost buying it.

I’ve driven both on track. The Miata is more ‘track ready’ out of the box and is easier to drive at the limit. Stock pads and sticky tires are all you need because it’s so lightweight. However once you find the limit, you quickly find yourself wishing for more straight line speed. It just feels a bit anemic on long straights. Coming from a Z4, I actually found the interior of the ND to be claustrophobic No clue what the safety reports say but I felt safer inside the Z4 cockpit.

Lastly as an aside, the one thing the Miata has over the Z4 is the shifter. You could spend thousand bucks on a fancy chassis mount shifter, and I still don’t think it’d be good as the Miata’s short precise throws.

[XutvJet]

2006 Cayman S vs 2006 Z4M Coupe

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...sche-cayman-s/

[3002 tii]

Also one more thing to add to above, while I appreciate the driver focused cockpit, for what was at the time, a $55k msrp car, the Z4 interior feels a little too spartan especially compared to the 987. Too much soft touch plastic and the many of the buttons wear over time (e.g. steering wheel controls). The extended leather option makes a huge difference but it really should’ve come standard imo.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by 3002 tii

Also one more thing to add to above, while I appreciate the driver focused cockpit, for what was at the time, a $55k msrp car, the Z4 interior feels a little too spartan especially compared to the 987. Too much soft touch plastic and the many of the buttons wear over time (e.g. steering wheel controls). The extended leather option makes a huge difference but it really should’ve come standard imo.

My Z4 has extended leather, it is quite nice. In 2014, I test drove both the non-M/non-S versions the 2008 Z4 and Cayman. I bought the Z4. I don't think the Cayman was any better than the Z4 in any aspect. IMO of course.

[vt100]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

My Z4 has extended leather, it is quite nice. In 2014, I test drove both the non-M/non-S versions the 2008 Z4 and Cayman. I bought the Z4. I don't think the Cayman was any better than the Z4 in any aspect. IMO of course.

Ditto. I haven't even seen a non-extended leather Z4 interior

Speaking of Cayman, I also test drove it practically back to back with Z4M, and Z4M felt much more edgy and thus more exiting to drive. Cayman is great, but it's too nice, too refined, way too easy to drive, kinda lacking this "drama" I always (even after many years of owning mine) still feel in Z
With Cayman it feels like the car is actually driving for you, helping you.
With Z it's like you always fight with the car and force it to do thing you need from it

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by vt100

Ditto. I haven't even seen a non-extended leather Z4 interior

Speaking of Cayman, I also test drove it practically back to back with Z4M, and Z4M felt much more edgy and thus more exiting to drive. Cayman is great, but it's too nice, too refined, way too easy to drive, kinda lacking this "drama" I always (even after many years of owning mine) still feel in Z
With Cayman it feels like the car is actually driving for you, helping you.
With Z it's like you always fight with the car and force it to do thing you need from it

Extended leather is just full leather door cards. The dash is still the elephant skin polymer.

I've driven my 3.0si Coupe on several road trips of 4 + hours. I find the M-sport seats super comfortable. The suspension is very compliant and not harsh in any way has been my experience.

[Donatello.]

Originally Posted by vt100

Heavier in turns! You'd feel all the S54 weight in front of you when cornering

But, speaking of stock ND, Miata feels way too slow in straight line acceleration after Z4M. And it has vaugue steering, don't get me wrong, it's good but not nearly close to Z4M' steering. And feedback isn't as good neither.

Also body roll is much more pronounced in Miata. In a good way though, quite enjoyable when cornering.


Overall feeling - stock Miata is much more refined and easier to drive than Z4M.
Z4M demands more from you and much more edgy. Stock S54 gives just enough power to enjoy acceleration and not feel that it's slow.
And sitting position almost on the rear axle gives you feeling of sitting on the rocket' tail trying to steer it somehow But when it starts sliding you'd feel it sooner than in Miata

Vague steering? I've never felt that.

The Miata body roll (On stock suspension cars) is intentional by Mazda.

”Since the Miata's beginning, it has exhibited no shortage of body roll during hard cornering, and this is a conscious effort, Coleman said. By tuning a car for extremely high-roll stiffness—where it's difficult to notice cornering speed due to lack of body roll—you mask one channel of communication to the driver. Nobody wants to fly blind by masking roll; you're cutting off tangible communication. Instead, it comes down to understanding and predicting what's going to happen as cornering forces build to their breaking point and beyond.”

Mine is lowered so not nearly as much body roll.

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by Donatello.

Vague steering? I've never felt that.

I test drove an ND2 and found the steering very numb. Can't speak for a Z4, but my E93 is decent but not very good the closer you get to the limit. A real 6/10ths car. By comparison my BRZ is much more communicative, steering and chassis. An Elise I drove had wonderful steering (obviously). A 981 GT4 was a step above the BRZ, but I can't comment on a base 981 or any 987 (I only drove a 987.1S a bit, not enough to form an opinion).

I feel that communication in cars, particularly steering, is such a subjective thing that it's hard to make comparison between people's opinion on a single car. Need to figure out some overlap in car experience (cars you and the other person both drove and share your opinions about those) before giving weight to comments on things like steering feel.

[3002 tii]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Extended leather is just full leather door cards. The dash is still the elephant skin polymer.

I've driven my 3.0si Coupe on several road trips of 4 + hours. I find the M-sport seats super comfortable. The suspension is very compliant and not harsh in any way has been my experience.

Mostly door cards but there’s other bits too. IIRC other areas include:

- roll hoop cover (roadster only)
- entire center console, from shifter to storage compartment
- sun visors

[MJBO]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

The suspension is very compliant and not harsh in any way has been my experience.

That....is at odds with every description of the E8x Z4 suspension I've ever read, plus my own having owned one for about 2 years

This is my experience:

[Pauly Wauly]

Originally Posted by MJBO

That....is at odds with every description of the E8x Z4 suspension I've ever read, plus my own having owned one for about 2 years

This is my experience:

I had a 2003 Z4 for 9 months, and I couldn`t wait to get rid of it quick enough, that`s how much I liked the Z4 . I replaced it with a 2001 Boxster S, and it was night and day the difference in performance and handling.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by MJBO

That....is at odds with every description of the E8x Z4 suspension I've ever read, plus my own having owned one for about 2 years

This is my experience:

I've had Coupe for 10 years and just under 100,000 miles driven. I use to daily it 2 to 3 times a week 170 miles round trip. Love the thing. I'll never get rid of it. The Cayman didn't impress me at the least.

I've been in the Roadster a few times, the Coupe rides better. WTF did he drive over, a cow grate? Stupid. Lol.

[vt100]

Come on, that’s Jeremy being Jeremy

[414bhp]

Originally Posted by Ohio Enthusiast

I test drove an ND2 and found the steering very numb. Can't speak for a Z4, but my E93 is decent but not very good the closer you get to the limit. A real 6/10ths car. By comparison my BRZ is much more communicative, steering and chassis. An Elise I drove had wonderful steering (obviously). A 981 GT4 was a step above the BRZ, but I can't comment on a base 981 or any 987 (I only drove a 987.1S a bit, not enough to form an opinion).

I feel that communication in cars, particularly steering, is such a subjective thing that it's hard to make comparison between people's opinion on a single car. Need to figure out some overlap in car experience (cars you and the other person both drove and share your opinions about those) before giving weight to comments on things like steering feel.

I agree with you on the ND2 being numb. And with the Elise having benchmark steering!

The 987 steering was quite good in my opinion but the 981 lost some of the road connection.

[dumptruck]

Alfa GTV 2000

[spazzyfry123]

Z4M has been said a million times over, so we get that point. A point that I agree with.

You mention classic, but it seems you want a bit of the modern touch. Have you considered a replica of sorts? My money would be going to a Factory Five Daytona Coupe with some modern reliability points built in the way I'd want it. Toss a Coyote in there and ride.

[414bhp]

Originally Posted by spazzyfry123

Z4M has been said a million times over, so we get that point. A point that I agree with.

You mention classic, but it seems you want a bit of the modern touch. Have you considered a replica of sorts? My money would be going to a Factory Five Daytona Coupe with some modern reliability points built in the way I'd want it. Toss a Coyote in there and ride.

Yeah, I'm feeling a tension between classic feel and modern safety. It's got me focused on the 1990's and 2000's cars.

The build options on the Factory Five are unlike any configurator I've seen! https://www.factoryfive.com/order-a-...-complete-kit/

[Old Car Guy]

Other than the Vette and the GTS I sold all these cars. The bel air had a fuel injected 409, coilovers, rack and pinion steering, 5 spd and 4 wheel discs. The Chevelle had a crate LS6 (Z06), and everything else the bel air had and both were very capable corner carvers. The GT4 was a ridiculously capable track car but so f'in predictable and precise it got boring if you can imagine that. The C8 Z06 is a great track toy and its adjustable suspension makes it the best street car of any 4 wheel toy I've owned. My M4 GTS is the most horrific street car on our New England roads I've ever owned but a great track car and I love it faults and all.