[freakystyly]

It's interesting how car design can evoke emotions. I'm definitely not in the market or target audience for a SUV / offroader but am excited and for a quick second even contemplated picking one up.

What is BMW doing that is getting people excited? Hog nosed M cars?

[Mardio]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

That adage is about 35 years outdated. With the advent of computers to aid modeling, design, testing, and manufacturing, vehicles have vastly improved in base-year overall quality. In fact, my opinion is it is critical now for any manufacturer to get its vehicles "right" at introduction based on social media hype. In fact, I'd say buying first year is actually better, because quality issues arise once the manufacturer tries to get cost out of the production in to following production years.

My "first year" E90 is an example I can point to. It's now reached past 14 years and 390,000 miles. Based on my following of issues for the E9X series on E90 post, the earlier versions were less problematic.

But the mid cycle refresh after a year or two always adds more options and sometimes better styling cues. They have to add something to the vehicles to keep them interesting. Also the first year cars rarely have any negotiating room on price since the public all want the latest and greatest thing. Personally I think a mid cycle is the best value in my opinion.

[freakystyly]

Lol, don't get him started on the LCI version of the e90.

[Conissah]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I'll stick with my assertations regarding modern computer aided design, engineering, test and manufacturing vs. a 60 year old adage regarding 1st year quality to wait for the manufacturer "to get the bugs out". Based on my manufacturing engineering background and personal automotive buying experience.

Tell that to the 2020 MKV Supra owners. 2021 makes more power, different cylinder head entirely, different pistons, different suspension, big infotainment only, etc. They got hosed.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Conissah

Tell that to the 2020 MKV Supra owners. 2021 makes more power, different cylinder head entirely, different turbo, different suspension, big infotainment only, etc. They got hosed.

So here are the differences between the '20 and '21 Supra:

From Auto Blog. "There’s more news for the 2021 Supra than just the four-cylinder, though. Toyota has upped the power output for the inline-six from 335 horsepower and 365 pound-feet of torque to 382 ponies and 368 pound-feet. You may recall those figures as the exact same numbers as the BMW Z4 M40i. Toyota claims the added power drops the 0-60 mph time from 4.1 seconds to 3.9 seconds. That extra power is thanks to a new dual-branch exhaust manifold that has six ports instead of two. A different piston design allowed the compression ratio to be dropped from 11:1 to 10.2:1, as well.

On top of the extra power, Toyota also re-tuned the chassis by increasing roll resistance by adding aluminum bracing in the engine bay between the strut towers and radiator support, fitting new bump stops and tweaking the damper tuning. Additionally, Toyota re-tuned the electric power steering system, adaptive suspension, stability control and the active differential. Toyota is claiming that the 2021 car is more stable through quick transitions. Lastly, there's a tech update, as Toyota has made the 8.8-inch infotainment standard, discontinuing the 6.5-inch screen."

So those are production changes to uplevel performance of the vehicle to improve its desirability to the consumer and not necessarily redesigns of parts to improve the build quality of the vehicle. The old adage of "don't buy a first-year production of anything" refers to the overall build quality of the vehicle. All cars get updated to improve performance or reduce manufacturing costs. It is well known that the E9X got de-contented over time as the currency changes between the US dollar and the EU Euro made BMWs more expensive to produce.

Changes to the Supra are not really any different than the E90 325i and the 328i once the 330i was dropped for the 335i.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Mardio

But the mid cycle refresh after a year or two always adds more options and sometimes better styling cues. They have to add something to the vehicles to keep them interesting. Also the first year cars rarely have any negotiating room on price since the public all want the latest and greatest thing. Personally I think a mid cycle is the best value in my opinion.

I'm not sure you understand what "don't buy the 1st year of anything" means. Same as the post above, you are talking about content/styling changes and not correcting design/manufacturing errors found once the vehicle is in full-rate production.

[mookie45]

Nice job Ford - the new Bronco is legit!

Based off the spec sheet I'd build an 4 door Outer Banks edition with brown leather, 12" display screen with B&O sound and tow hitch.

Live in FL so I most likely won't need crawl control leaving Costco.

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by mookie45

Nice job Ford - the new Bronco is legit!

Based off the spec sheet I'd build an 4 door Outer Banks edition with brown leather, 12" display screen with B&O sound and tow hitch.

Live in FL so I most likely won't need crawl control leaving Costco.

Unless you need to drive over a Prius

[x3sm]

The four door

I'm shocked at how awesome this vehicle is... I always liked the idea of a Jeep Wrangler, but just something about it always seemed off to me.

I was thinking of putting a reservation on Cybertruck, but after seeing this I'm not sure anymore.

[Mingwan]

If the performance version of the Bronco is called the Warthog, it could not be bought in any other color than Cactus Grey

[NorCalAthlete]

Originally Posted by Mingwan

If the performance version of the Bronco is called the Warthog, it could not be bought in any other color than Cactus Grey

I'm gonna buy a 4-door to go with my G22 4 series, and I think I might have some custom badges made to replace "Bronco" with "Chupathingy".

[Miko M]

Saleen already has ideas

[flybigjet]

It's too bad that the Bronco Sport will come ONLY with an AT.

The Sport is the more "commute/road friendly" version.

I don't need all of the rock crawling gears or a magic suspension.

BUT, I'd be interested in a Sport to replace my 2005 Element (MT)-- but an AT is just a non-starter for me.

[IllSic_Design]

Looks cool, I like the redesign. If only it had enough room to fit a dirt bike in the back.

[Miko M]

Some options to play with. Lol

[Miko M]

Suspension in detail

[syd34]

I am not an off-roading person at all but I find myself so attracted to this new Bronco. Ford really nailed this one. Now if only I can convince my wife to drive this when we replace our Highlander in 2-3 years.

[Miko M]

Originally Posted by IllSic_Design

Looks cool, I like the redesign. If only it had enough room to fit a dirt bike in the back.

They should add some extension

[mookie45]

One thing I hope they introduce is a blackout or shadow line type of styling. I like the gloss black contrast against white/lighter colors to look more aggressive

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by IllSic_Design

Looks cool, I like the redesign. If only it had enough room to fit a dirt bike in the back.

T-r-a-i-l-e-r...

[IllSic_Design]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

T-r-a-i-l-e-r...

I would want the 4cyl manual probably, wonder what it could tow.
Edit: seems to be 3500 lbs

I was just thinking of being able to throw a bike or two in the back. If I have to get a trailer then yeah I am going to get a truck that will actually be able to tow something, so I'd get a real truck with a diesel or v8.

[NorCalAthlete]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

T-r-a-i-l-e-r...

I mean, a hitch rack would work just fine for a single dirtbike...