[Fugly M3]

I had been wondering how BMW and others were going to continue to charge premiums for their cars/features as we head into the future, given that the Hyundais, Fords, Toyotas of the world have largely caught up and offer many tech features for free. I can imagine a BMW "advanced safety subscription" that includes some of the features mentioned above, but also some others...like adaptive/brighter LED headlights and emergency braking features. I can also imagine the public outcry and outrage (not to mention the lawsuit) when someone doesn't pay their subscription and is involved in a massive accident after one of these features is deactivated. Clearly, the public relations/CYA teams haven't been briefed on this.

[jjrandorin]

Originally Posted by BMWZ4

I think it'll be a small % of owners that won't subscribe to these "features" - I think a large % will sign up for a variety of available options.

I head-up an IT developer team for a large retailer. Over the last 18+ months, we've been exploring the whole "pay-to-play" field. During those 18 months, we've solicited thousands upon thousands of willing participants to tell us how they feel about a "subscription" model and a very surprising % agreed with our proposed strategy and very willing to pay for the privilege.

This is the way of the future; not just BMW or other car companies, but retailers and a host of other industries are toying with this strategy. Why? One (primary) answer - new revenue stream, generating high margins.

And now...our new strategy launches mid-Oct.

If you are still reading this thread, thank you for the response (and taking the risk to make said response when its apparent that the general consensus from this readership is negative on this type of thing).

I am curious since you are on the "other side" of this, not in cars but still. When you were looking at the survey results, did they break it down by age?

I know we have had a few younger people chime in and say that they hate this, and I am not ignoring that, but I still feel like the "subscription" model for things like this would be favored by younger people in this purchasing bracket rather than older ones.

As an example, I dont even "lease" or make payments for my physical cellphone. We buy our phones outright, rather than sign up for "$40 a month added to your cellphone bill". I try to keep my monthly churn of bills to a minimum, but this is because of my life experience. When I was younger, I didnt do that, and it burned me.

I do subscribe to amazon, and netflix comes free with my t-mobile subscription. I have Tivo dvr's with a lifetime service on them, rather than the cable companies "X.XX a month, forever" for the cable box or cable modem.

I am not adverse to some subscriptions, but, I would rather pay 199 for MS office, than a yearly subscription.

So, Wondering how this is broken down, when you say your survey results show people dont mind this, or are in favor of it.

[BMV///M3]

BMW is a business and will continue to try to engineer ways to make profit. Consumers will decide whether they wish to pay for this (my gut is saying no way) and BMW will adjust. My personal opinion is there is no way I'd pay this and I'd look at another manufacture. Customers will always vote with their wallet. I did the same thing when BMW lumped the back up camera into the $3500 executive pack. I said I wasn't paying for things I didn't want just to get it. Over 2 years later, everything is fine and I don't miss it.

[BMWZ4]

For those of you who've noted they will leave the brand if they pursue this new revenue stream, what manufacturer will you select when (eventually) they all implement this strategy? Or will you choose not to own a vehicle period?

And if BMW does in fact pursue this (remember it's still only a survey they've launched), and it's successful, don't you think all the other manufacturers will be watching very closely to see if there's NEW revenue/profits to be had? It's my belief the subscription model (across many industries) will be ubiquitous within 5 or 6 years, for better or worse.

Or, you could simply choose not to subscribe to any of their devices of course. Personally, my criteria when shopping for a new car is based on performance, appearance etc, not services such as RRTI, Parking Assistance etc. Those are bonus features and if it's something I feel I truly need, then I'll make that decision on the fly - but it wouldn't hold me back from buying a new car (any brand).

Fascinating discussion for sure.

[BMWZ4]

Originally Posted by jjrandorin

If you are still reading this thread, thank you for the response (and taking the risk to make said response when its apparent that the general consensus from this readership is negative on this type of thing).

I am curious since you are on the "other side" of this, not in cars but still. When you were looking at the survey results, did they break it down by age?

I know we have had a few younger people chime in and say that they hate this, and I am not ignoring that, but I still feel like the "subscription" model for things like this would be favored by younger people in this purchasing bracket rather than older ones.

As an example, I dont even "lease" or make payments for my physical cellphone. We buy our phones outright, rather than sign up for "$40 a month added to your cellphone bill". I try to keep my monthly churn of bills to a minimum, but this is because of my life experience. When I was younger, I didnt do that, and it burned me.

I do subscribe to amazon, and netflix comes free with my t-mobile subscription. I have Tivo dvr's with a lifetime service on them, rather than the cable companies "X.XX a month, forever" for the cable box or cable modem.

I am not adverse to some subscriptions, but, I would rather pay 199 for MS office, than a yearly subscription.

So, Wondering how this is broken down, when you say your survey results show people dont mind this, or are in favor of it.

Understood, love the discussion! I can't release the stats/results obviously, but I can say that OUR target audience is generally over 45, skewed female, but still "heavy" Male & affluent.

Again, as you've noted, not the car business, so definitely not an apples-to-apples comparison, but potentially shows customers appetite for the sub model.

Ultimately time will tell and of course, these are only my opinions with little research to back up my statements, other than our targeted survey results.

[scrammer]

Originally Posted by pheerIx

You have the throttle body actuators and rod bearings subscription plan.

I wonder if they will start to charge for active sound!?!?
It must be expensive to develop the software that puts those fake engine noises through your stereo system

[Teutonic]

Originally Posted by BMWZ4

For those of you who've noted they will leave the brand if they pursue this new revenue stream, what manufacturer will you select when (eventually) they all implement this strategy? Or will you choose not to own a vehicle period?

And if BMW does in fact pursue this (remember it's still only a survey they've launched), and it's successful, don't you think all the other manufacturers will be watching very closely to see if there's NEW revenue/profits to be had? It's my belief the subscription model (across many industries) will be ubiquitous within 5 or 6 years, for better or worse.

Or, you could simply choose not to subscribe to any of their devices of course. Personally, my criteria when shopping for a new car is based on performance, appearance etc, not services such as RRTI, Parking Assistance etc. Those are bonus features and if it's something I feel I truly need, then I'll make that decision on the fly - but it wouldn't hold me back from buying a new car (any brand).

Fascinating discussion for sure.

I don't know about you, but I have certain principles that I follow in life. Even if they will not affect me directly I will always fight for principles.
For the principle alone I will leave the brand. Otherwise I will just mutually agree with their philosophy which is wrong.

[Aaaaaaaaa]

Originally Posted by scrammer

I wonder if they will start to charge for active sound!?!?
It must be expensive to develop the software that puts those fake engine noises through your stereo system

I know man I'm thinking of just removing the exhaust altogether since it's there just for show anyway

[cavargas]

the auto industry is moving towards a subscription model just like everything else. In a few decades you won't own a new car, maybe a refurbished or reconditioned one. And yes, you will end up getting a subscription because the business model will make it look like it makes sense.

[BMWZ4]

Originally Posted by Tracus

I don't know about you, but I have certain principles that I follow in life. Even if they will not affect me directly I will always fight for principles.
For the principle alone I will leave the brand. Otherwise I will just mutually agree with their philosophy which is wrong.

I have my principles as well! I'm talking about working for a business who's only priority is to be profitable for both shareholders and employees alike - nothing wrong with that.

If that means (in this case) that there's money to be made in a subscription environment, why shouldn't said business pursue any and all avenues to sustain the business?

You didn't answer one of my questions though, namely IF all manufacturers pursued a sub model for certain features, would your principles still be guiding you then? In other words, what vehicle would you buy? Or will you buy a used vehicle instead of new in order to avoid the conflict within you re sub models?

[Big boi m5]

You guys revolt yes, but the Soy Boys in San Francisco will make this hugely profitable.

BMW sells sports cars to motor racing fans, luxury cars to rich guys who want comfort and association with the cool racing cars, and they now sell TECH CARS to soy boys who want COOL TECH in their cars to show off. Monthly fees are how Californians live. They will drink this up faster than a Starbucks vanilla Soy Frappecino and bMw will be all to happy to take their money.

The success of the X1 FWD BMW should have been the first sign to you that BMW was seeking new markets where the buyers have different values. FWD? what's that? Apple car play and a back up Siri parking 3d Go Pro for $200 a month? Yes please

[thaalrasha]

This subscription plan is BS, they are just baiting hackers to crack this crap, their security and sell one off options at discounted prices on the black market.
This is never going to work and if they do that i'd change brand wihtout second thought.

[Teutonic]

Originally Posted by BMWZ4

I have my principles as well! I'm talking about working for a business who's only priority is to be profitable for both shareholders and employees alike - nothing wrong with that.

If that means (in this case) that there's money to be made in a subscription environment, why shouldn't said business pursue any and all avenues to sustain the business?

You didn't answer one of my questions though, namely IF all manufacturers pursued a sub model for certain features, would your principles still be guiding you then? In other words, what vehicle would you buy? Or will you buy a used vehicle instead of new in order to avoid the conflict within you re sub models?

I will answer with an analogy.
XBOX One wanted a Microsoft account in order for me to enjoy my favorite game. In other words, $600 later plus the games, I can not enjoy my new Xbox in a remote cabin where no internet connection is available. Or play my favorite games on my full paid Xbox and full paid games without any obstruction.
I have returned the Xbox one and keep enjoying my Xbox 360. Even if the 360 dies I will not buy an Xbox One until I have the freedom of enjoying my box free of charge or any supplementary charge. I bought the box and the game, let me be.
If there is no way, I will not buy anything.
I still have the books, the nature, my friends.

Cable company wanted a fee for the box. I bought my own box and paid it once and cheap. If they will refuse to sell it and force me to rent it I would give up cable. Simple.

A nice used car will do fine for me.

Accepting a new rule just because you need to, is the way you will give up your rights and freedom. I will never accept something that is not fair or interferes with my freedom of choice.
One less car for a manufacturer might not be much, but I am content that I do have a spinal cord and I am not a sheep.

[BMWZ4]

Originally Posted by Tracus

I will answer with an analogy.
XBOX One wanted a Microsoft account in order for me to enjoy my favorite game. In other words, $600 later plus the games, I can not enjoy my new Xbox in a remote cabin where no internet connection is available. Or play my favorite games on my full paid Xbox and full paid games without any obstruction.
I have returned the Xbox one and keep enjoying my Xbox 360. Even if the 360 dies I will not buy an Xbox One until I have the freedom of enjoying my box free of charge or any supplementary charge. I bought the box and the game, let me be.
If there is no way, I will not buy anything.
I still have the books, the nature, my friends.

Cable company wanted a fee for the box. I bought my own box and paid it once and cheap. If they will refuse to sell it and force me to rent it I would give up cable. Simple.

A nice used car will do fine for me.

Accepting a new rule just because you need to, is the way you will give up your rights and freedom. I will never accept something that is not fair or interferes with my freedom of choice.
One less car for a manufacturer might not be much, but I am content that I do have a spinal cord and I am not a sheep.

No one is restricting your freedom of choice...you don't need to sub up for any services you don't want to! You may not get all the features you would (ideally) want to have, but at least you've made a choice to participate or not.

In any case, super interesting discussion of something that is sure to be in all our futures, at some point.

[Digital_83]

Originally Posted by pruettfan

It's a survey, chill.

yeah ... that is how it always starts

[termigni]

Microsoft is getting ready for it's subscription service for Xbox One S and X. monthly payment of $xx.xx for 2 years for the console + lot of games to download. at the end of 2 year term, you get to keep the console. this sh*t is getting out of hand. I thought Apple car play subscription service was ridiculous..

[jjrandorin]

Originally Posted by SleepingBMW

You guys revolt yes, but the Soy Boys in San Francisco will make this hugely profitable.

BMW sells sports cars to motor racing fans, luxury cars to rich guys who want comfort and association with the cool racing cars, and they now sell TECH CARS to soy boys who want COOL TECH in their cars to show off. Monthly fees are how Californians live. They will drink this up faster than a Starbucks vanilla Soy Frappecino and bMw will be all to happy to take their money.

The success of the X1 FWD BMW should have been the first sign to you that BMW was seeking new markets where the buyers have different values. FWD? what's that? Apple car play and a back up Siri parking 3d Go Pro for $200 a month? Yes please

Thats a pretty broad generalization.... it would be like me saying "all midwesterners live on farms", which I am not saying, to be clear (chose midwestern because your location says that).

[Big boi m5]

Originally Posted by jjrandorin

Thats a pretty broad generalization.... it would be like me saying "all midwesterners live on farms", which I am not saying, to be clear (chose midwestern because your location says that).

Im only enhancing the info I've gathered from BMW execs in roundel interviews mixed with data from my wife's marketing firm on millenials and automotive industry.

They want tech, tech, tech. Its the new fast.

You won't find them here though as this forum is living in a completely different world and looks at cars completely differently.

Every comment asks why does BMW do this? Nobody understands the nu-male view of the world. Credit, rent , monthly fees, brand names, tech, are the new norm.

Many farms in the Midwest but sadly that is going away. Who will grow the soy needed to power California's nu-male economy if all the young people would rather drink soy than grow it?

Also lighten up, I'm only half serious, typing this on my iPhone after all and I have caffeine flowing through my veins from free trade locally roasted coffee.

There are good things and bad things about the soy boy world. The constant need to peacock with cool tech on a subscription is not one of them.

[AUS1969]

They didn't ask me. but for the record, this is my 4th BMW, and my plan was to trade my M40i for the X3M in a few years. I love sporty cars, but I'm in my 70s now, and need a tall car for everyday use. I dislike ASS, the overly complex music collection, and some other things but I suspect this subscription deal would make me think twice about buying the X3M. On a trip, I like the driving aids for interstates. I might buy the Alfa, Jaguar or Porsche fast crossovers instead. If I'm not happy I'll just keep what I have. Maybe do some mods. I won't live forever and maybe the M40i will do just fine.

[David70]

Originally Posted by cavargas

the auto industry is moving towards a subscription model just like everything else. In a few decades you won't own a new car, maybe a refurbished or reconditioned one. And yes, you will end up getting a subscription because the business model will make it look like it makes sense.

I have yet to see one auto industry subscription that I am interested in paying for, this "moving towards a subscription model" I don't think any car manufacturer has come up with anything the general public will subscribe to. I still think to make it work there has to be upgrades and/or new content, just paying for existing tech is a tough sell. They try to sell me navigation upgrades each year, Google Maps got rid of that problem, car companies shitty system was blown out of the water by the one included at no charge on my phone.

With the "in a few decades you won't own a new car", make a fully autonomous vehicle, cutting Uber prices in half (without the driver) and I think it is more likely that I won't own any daily drive car and will be completely done with dealing with car manufacturers, possibly insurance, maintenance, repair, etc. Look at the total costs of owning a car and how often it does nothing but sit in a parking spot. At the very least I think my wife and I would quickly go to a one household car for a daily driver.

[Zeroblade]

Originally Posted by BMWZ4

Why would you consider improving profits "petty"? Is it not the responsibility of any given public company to produce returns for their shareholders? Even for privately owned operations...isn't it the owners responsibility to generate profit so employees can enjoy job security?

And is it "petty" if said pay-to-play program is supported by the individuals who sign up for said pay-to-play program?

My opinion of course...

Considering to create a system of paying a monthly subscription for features on a 50k+ car whereas competitors have STANDARD for cars that generally half the cost...

Yes, that is petty.

[dkerr]

I received the same survey and answered NO to all options. Subscriptions work for some things but I think it is particularly unsuitable for these. If my car is equipped for driving assistant or parking assistant then I would expect these to work without a subscription model.

What particularly bothers me is that this sort of technology gets out-of-date really fast. In 3 or 4 years time I do not want to be paying for 4 year old technology. And a subscription model is really bad for people that do not lease and keep the car for say 6 years.

Subscriptions work if it buys you regular updates. So, e.g. might work for navigation or even CarPlay where updates can be pushed down to your car. But I don't see driving or parking assistants to be easily kept up-to-date with software downloads as future improvements are likely going to require new hardware... e.g. improved sensor technology.

Bottom line, bad idea BMW.

DAK