[secretariat]

Who really gives a s*&t about this?

[///S65]

Originally Posted by N & M

Isn't BMW M all about driving dynamics?

If you are in a segment of market selling a product you should face your competition head on and not make excuses. It is the way that power is delivered as well and it stared when turbos came in.

There are always pros and cons to new tech and BMW needs to tweak thier product to deal with the increased power otherwise what is the point?

I am simply explaining the fact that M cars is in a disadvantage in terms of traction. The 50/50 weight distribution cant have as much traction as the porsches and ferraris. And they are in a different price range. Can BMW do something to improve it? Sure but a rear/mid engine car is always gonna have more traction off the line.

[fcman]

Originally Posted by ///S65

I am simply explaining the fact that M cars is in a disadvantage in terms of traction. The 50/50 weight distribution cant have as much traction as the porsches and ferraris. And they are in a different price range. Can BMW do something to improve it? Sure but a rear/mid engine car is always gonna have more traction off the line.

Maybe BMW should put in a rear mounted transaxle, that would help push some weight to the back.

[EfEightyM3]

Nice to see real world results. Complain all you want about the drivers but a manual car without launch control won against a field of dual clutches. Also proof that less is more with the GT4. And to boot it would kill the others on a road course with extreme ease.
M4 despite a real world ~120 hp and closing in on 200 lb ft torque more is only 2-3 mph faster than the manual GT4.

[SuperSkato]

The M4 is a great car, with the track in his DNA. The M4's pilot is a dumb rookie.
I advice him to learn to drive.

[N & M]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

You keep bringing back the differential in the traction debate. The differential on current ///M cars works perfectly fine. If it properly locks up both wheels during a launch, I don't see how it can contribute to more traction. The answer lies elsewhere IMO.

Read carefully through me opinion and you will see it is not just the diff that needs attention.

[Fundguy1]

Yes with traction control off it does a 100 yard burnout if you just stomp.it. everyone knows this. He didn't need to do it twice. It didn't show anything about how well the care can and will perform if anyone besides a monkey with brain damage drives it.

[Fundguy1]

M4 and i8 are both 12.2 quarter mile cars with the M4 pulling away.

[N & M]

Originally Posted by ///S65

I am simply explaining the fact that M cars is in a disadvantage in terms of traction. The 50/50 weight distribution cant have as much traction as the porsches and ferraris. And they are in a different price range. Can BMW do something to improve it? Sure but a rear/mid engine car is always gonna have more traction off the line.

The Ferrari California is a RWD front engine car. Price point argument aside it is not too far in concept to an M6 with competition package upgrades.

I am not shooting down M. I have been a proud owner of one model or other since 1995 and say what I say out of desire to see the best for the brand. Since the advent of the turbo age, I miss my E60 M5's power delivery and grip off the line and exit fluidity out of corners.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by N & M

The Ferrari California is a RWD front engine car. Price point argument aside it is not too far in concept to an M6 with competition package upgrades.

I am not shooting down M. I have been a proud owner of one model or other since 1995 and say what I say out of desire to see the best for the brand. Since the advent of the turbo age, I miss my [///M] power delivery and grip off the line and exit fluidity out of corners.

So do I. That fluid power delivery and the notions that the engine should never overpower the chassis, once ///M hallmarks, are things that have been lost with the avenue of forced induction engines.

[V1.47fan]

Originally Posted by Dalko43

So much denial in this thread....every time a video pops up showing the m4's traction issues, everyone wants to assume the worst about the driver, the conditions, ect....very few want to admit that the M4 has a tendency to slip&slide its rear tires.

Yeah that's why so many members ran high 11's, low 12's on stock tires. It was a drag race, last I checked, that's one area the M4 does really well.

Multiple car mags got the M4 in the high 11's. I mean if your average joe can run in the low 12's and professional car journos can't, that's a joke.

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

So do I. That fluid power delivery and the notions that the engine should never overpower the chassis, once ///M hallmarks, are things that have been lost with the avenue of forced induction engines.

Let's remember it's the same people that complained there was no low end torque (which I always thought was bs).

I blame it those that bickered about not having torque. Now they say it's too much.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

So do I. That fluid power delivery and the notions that the engine should never overpower the chassis, once ///M hallmarks, are things that have been lost with the avenue of forced induction engines.

Personally I think the chassis is the laggard not the engine the over achiever. They put too much R&D into the "I" cars and not enough into the M cars. Why does a transverse spring corvette stomp it and not have traction issues? Maybe it's time to start dedicating more to the chassis for acceleration. Maybe even, perish the thought, AWD?

[V1.47fan]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Yes with traction control off it does a 100 yard burnout if you just stomp.it. everyone knows this. He didn't need to do it twice. It didn't show anything about how well the care can and will perform if anyone besides a monkey with brain damage drives it.

They said in the video, the pavement was damped and a bit slippery. MDM would've worked better than even LC instead of using the smokey burnout launch that never works even on dry pavement. The M4 was the only car in the video coming out of the dig with blue smokes out of the tires.

You would think these bozos would've done a lil research on how to launch the M4 for the conditions.

[RazBimmer]

My 12 year old can launch the M4 faster

[FilipMPower]

Originally Posted by ///S65

Yes the F12 launches better because it's not a typical front engine car. The engine is so far back. The C63 puts down power better because it is a lot heavier.

F12 might not be typically front engined but the engine is still in the front. Front-mid engine if you wish. Still, BMW M should manage to control 500 NM of torque. I dont know if its mechanical grip is poor, but at least a wing or gurney flap should be present in the M4 for quick corner exits with the extra aero grip. BMW M can do a better job at putting power down to the ground. And I dont blame the tyres.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Why does a transverse spring corvette stomp it and not have traction issues?

Maybe because it does not have a turbo engine

[Dalko43]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Maybe because it does not have a turbo engine

What's your point? The LT1 has quite a bit more torque than the s55.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Dalko43

What's your point? The LT1 has quite a bit more torque than the s55.

It is all about how much torque is put down at the rear wheels during the launch. Gear ratios and the shape of the power curve are big players here. The S55 has tons of torque low in the RPM band and the F8X has a stupid short 1st gear overall ratio (especially DCT).

Eye balling from the manufacturer power charts, a DCT F8X puts down close to twice the wheel torque in 1st gear at 10mph than a 6MT Stingray (~6755 vs ~3555 lb-ft). Even at peak torque, the M4 trumps the Stingray with over 40% more torque at the wheels in 1st gear (~6755 vs ~4725 lb-ft). No wonder the F8X overburdens its rear tires when launching.

IMO, a key to the launch traction issues with the F8X lies with the gear ratios.

[///S65]

Originally Posted by FilipMPower

F12 might not be typically front engined but the engine is still in the front. Front-mid engine if you wish. Still, BMW M should manage to control 500 NM of torque. I dont know if its mechanical grip is poor, but at least a wing or gurney flap should be present in the M4 for quick corner exits with the extra aero grip. BMW M can do a better job at putting power down to the ground. And I dont blame the tyres.

Well the F12 has 46/54 weight distribution. BMW offers the M4 GTS with a big ass wing but do you really expect BMW to put a wing on a mass production car?

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by ///S65

Well the F12 has 46/54 weight distribution. BMW offers the M4 GTS with a big ass wing but do you really expect BMW to put a wing on a mass production car?

The wing isn't there to improve launch traction. It's there to improve cornering at high speed.

[dondula]

seems there isn't a shortage of ass hole drivers to put on youtube..

the guy in the m4 turned traction off and clearly purposely wanted to burn out and go no where. It's not denial, its fact. let the M4 lose all day, but let it lose fairly