[BMW269]

Originally Posted by Smooth 330i

For now I'll take good ol diesel that is 100y old tech if I want to be green. You need to travel a bit instead of getting your knowledge from Internet articles.

Myth No. 1: Diesel is not green.

Originally Posted by MikeyV

I think you've got that wrong, Teslar partnered with Mercedes (DaimerAG sold there 4% in Teslar last month), they have a partnership with Toyota, another deal in the works with Nissan and are talking to BMW but don't have a tie up yet.

Toyota also sold its shares. It means something share price is going to drop. Both Daimler and Toyota made good money with this investment. BMW is late to the party, that is why they work on FCEV with Toyota.

[Zeus78]

+1... Having been and M fan for the past 20 years and having over 6 (currently running a 2012 ZCP e92), I can say that with the price territory the new M3/M4 have moved in vs the performance its not easy to justify choosing over an American option. Yes it has a blue oval on it but truth be told the HP war and direction the new younger management has changed the culture to match the original hard core M fans while the old management of BMW is moving towards satisfying the mass clients with fuel consumption, mass production, front wheel drive cars, etc... No problem there but don't rape us hard core performance fans... My current e92 cost me 97k Canadian and while yes I could have lived with less options why should I have 18" crappy wheels and less options than a base corvette? Look at the Stingray (handily beats the M4 in all tests), I have the feeling the same will happen with the gt350 and the new cts-v... Don't get me started with the z28 and new 750hp hellcat... Germans wake up!

As far as the above debate of gt350 over Gt500 I think it's irrelevant... Track car vs kill anything at the traffic light or drag king... Point is they are making something for every need... Good for them. They got my vote of approval and possibly my next purchase dark gray gt350 minus the racing lines...

M2 might be our last hope.... And let's hope it doesn't need exhaust amplification thought the sound system or a 4k option for a "M performance" exhaust...

[Zeus78]

Originally Posted by omegaSMP300

He might be referring to the exterior design of the car. I for one cannot speak to it's driving dynamics as I have not yet driven one (though I have heard good things). But aesthetically I am not drawn to it and even for a DD I would still prefer it if my car was one I enjoyed looking at. However, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I am sure there are some that like it's styling.

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

Well this is embarrassing. My father owns one and I drive it nearly every day (we commute together). Its hardly a turd. And I personally believe that I can say with a bit more authority than you can. I actually believe it to be one of the best cars that you can buy from BMW right now.

You know what was a turd? The 328 loaner I had last week. That was a turd.

+1000 on the 328 loaner turd comment... Auto 328 I had as a loaner felt worst than my wife's Toyota Venza! Can't believe people buy this car for that kind of $$$

[TSM330i]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

Well this is embarrassing. My father owns one and I drive it nearly every day (we commute together). Its hardly a turd. And I personally believe that I can say with a bit more authority than you can. I actually believe it to be one of the best cars that you can buy from BMW right now.

You know what was a turd? The 328 loaner I had last week. That was a turd.

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

The current 328 is abominable. Never should the base model flagship have strayed so far from core philosophy of what made BMW, BMW. You want evidence that the company has changed it's focus? There it is. Out in plain sight.

I actually think the i3 is probably the most interesting looking EV out there. It reminds me a little of the Honda Element. That's about all I can say about it without being rude though.

Originally Posted by omegaSMP300

I agree with you. I actually am not a huge fan of the new 3 series. But I also do not see it as a flagship car. The focus of the car industry in general is changing and BMW is adapting to it. Lets just hope the next generation 3 series will be an improvement, well in our eyes.

I also agree that the i3 is quite interesting to look at. If BMW had turned the Active E 1 series into the body for their i3 I would have looked into that car as a DD. As it stands now though, if the time comes for me to look for an EV I will be looking elsewhere.

This is the EXACT point I was trying to make earlier when I said BMW used to make cars for enthusiasts. The 3-Series was the basis for a great driver cars and now it doesn't seem to be the case. They've gone soft.

Also, I do believe you're going to get cross-shopping with the M2/3/4. The M2 because they're going to be priced closely. The M3/4 it'll be hard to ignore the GT350 due to the performance and the value. Ford has stepped up their game in quality and so far I've read the quality of the new Mustang interior is really good.

[pgviper]

Originally Posted by ragingclue

If this starts under 60 I'll be shocked, because this truly is a fully baked car. I will also be pissed.

ZL1 has the same ingredients and starts below $60k.

It also comes with all of the performance options already included. For Ford to be competitive, they need to be in that range.I think starting price should be taht of a loaded zl1 and a loaded gt350 should fall about 10% shy of a z/28.

I think the american market is different than the european market and BMW is swinging across the pond. As of now, they are focusing on the euro requirements such as cylinder count and fuel efficiency while the american car companies are appealing to an american market that loves that sports/muscle car personality. We were spoiled for a while with being able to get a combination of the two but with times changing, development is being pushed in opposite directions.

[ragingclue]

Originally Posted by pgviper

For SHELBY to be competitive...

Honestly, this alone will successfully demand a premium, especially now that they are properly and fully paying tribute to the GT350 moniker (whereas the GT500 was less of a purpose built car and IIRC he hated it for that).

And to be totally truthful, the only reason I am pulling for a higher price point right now is because I don't want to have missed out on this. The American automakers are making too many good cars now; I'm having buyer's remorse on a car that won't even land stateside for another three months, and I'm having that remorse over several different offerings. Getting a car has never been a difficult or cloudy process for me, this is new.

I wish I could buy them all.

[pgviper]

Originally Posted by ragingclue

Honestly, this alone will successfully demand a premium, especially now that they are properly and fully paying tribute to the GT350 moniker (whereas the GT500 was less of a purpose built car and IIRC he hated it for that).

And to be totally truthful, the only reason I am pulling for a higher price point right now is because I don't want to have missed out on this. The American automakers are making too many good cars now; I'm having buyer's remorse on a car that won't even land stateside for another three months, and I'm having that remorse over several different offerings. Getting a car has never been a difficult or cloudy process for me, this is new.

I wish I could buy them all.

Thank you for the correction...

Great time to be a car enthusiast, maybe you should put that post in the "First world problems" thread

[TSM330i]

Car & Driver 10 Best for 2015.

Mustang is on it and so is the 2-Series.
No 3-Series.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...f-2015-feature

[F1Venom]

Originally Posted by Levi

Shouldn't all M fans get a Mustang now? AMG is the new M.

So much this.

[omegaSMP300]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

GT350 is definitely not a muscle car. It is a track focused car, built from conception to annihilate road courses. Infotainment systems and all that crap, owners of the GT350 don't really care about that. First thing on the mind is the bespoke flat plane crank 5.2L V8, that revs over 8k.

The M4 is now a GT car, with some stellar track capabilities. You want luxury and performance, get a M4, C63, RCF, or RS5.

But as far as the GT350, track performance wise it is in a different league.

Lol agreed! I have since edited my initial post and removed "muscle" replacing it with "track oriented." It was a long day at the office how I found it in me to type out those paragraphs I do not know. I appreciate all that read through it though!

[ragingclue]

Originally Posted by pgviper

Great time to be a car enthusiast

That is so true.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by TSM330i

Car & Driver 10 Best for 2015.

Mustang is on it and so is the 2-Series.
No 3-Series.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...f-2015-feature

Hmm...interesting. That snaps long time run for the 3-series.

[TunedM2C]

[TSM330i]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

Hmm...interesting. That snaps long time run for the 3-series.

Apparently Automobile Magazine agrees.
2-Series, new Mustang and the Z/28 are on the All Stars list

http://www.automobilemag.com/feature...ine-all-stars/

[Mavus]

Listen!!

http://blog.caranddriver.com/5-thing...lat-crank-v-8/

[ragingclue]

sweet baby jesus

[VMRWheels]

really diggin this car

[TXSTYLE]

WOW...

Originally Posted by CAR & DRIVER

5 Cool Things About the 2016 Mustang Shelby GT350's Flat-Crank V-8 – News – Car and Driver | Car and Driver Blog

Also since I haven't posted on this thread yet I would like to state a few things. I was never an American car fan and technically I'm still not.
BUT cars such as the CTS-V and now this Mustang? really shows that America is stepping up their car game. I love how the new mustang GT350 looks and it's performance numbers and "facts" so far.
If I were to have a choice between a GT350 and a BMW M4, I know this is big for me to say. I would pick the GT350. From what we've been reading and seen so far this car will out perform any M car on the track stock vs stock and that's a BIG deal to me.

A quick little story. When I was recently at monterey car week I had visited the BMW Villa. I gave them a few choice words and expressed my true enthusiast feelings for BMW as a brand. One of the things I said to them is that BMW is building economy cars now not driver cars. With a model like the 320i I can't expect BMW to be taken seriously anymore. And like myself and a lot of other enthusiasts of BMW we all agree that BMW hasn't built a single good car since 2006.

We argued and we talked more. They let me check out the M4, M3, M5, i8 etc. Sad to say I was not impressed by any of them other than they're appearance in design looks wise. Just because every one else jumped on the band wagon of using forced induction didn't mean BMW had to. BMW was originally known for the amazing naturally aspirated engines they produced. But now? economy cars.

This is a chance for Ford to really show off what they'll bring back to the car world. And with good competition like this it'll only push other car makes further.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by TXSTYLE

WOW...

I'd pick a car I've never driven either.

Although if they still felt that way after they drove it, it wouldn't surprise me. Wonder if it'll be a viable daily driver though or mainly a track monster.

[cloakster]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

I'd pick a car I've never driven either.

Although if they still felt that way after they drove it, it wouldn't surprise me. Wonder if it'll be a viable daily driver though or mainly a track monster.

This x1000.

If the car works out as a decent daily driver, it will most likely be my next car.

[BMW269]

Ridiculous!

M3 fans prefer the more (soft)"hard-core" M3 over its rivals (RC F, RS4/5, AMG C), because "race-car"/"track-car", then ask BMW an even more (and truly) radical car badged CSL/GTS, and when Mustang has the car for them, they are worried about it being to harsh as a daily driver. No wonder BMW won't build any M CLS/GTS models for any of these "soft"-core fanboys.

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by TXSTYLE

WOW...

Definitely not a surprise. The regular GT with a performance pack is right on the heels of the M3/M4, and it's running on less capable P Zeros. The GT350 should essentially walk the F8X on a leash at any track.