[supra93]

More photos in link below!

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/a90...revealed.1404/

[eluded]

Meh. No stick, Not enough power and too expensive.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by Biginboca

With American cars bringing 450hp at $35k the Supra really needs AT LEAST 400hp at an asking price over $50k.

Do any of those $35k American cars weigh 3,300lbs?

[Nextbooost]

Originally Posted by hellrotm

Do any of those $35k American cars weigh 3,300lbs?

What you think the extra 300lbs the Stang Gt has will make a world of difference ? 460 bhp will more then make it up and then some.

If the Supra badge'd blaspheme hair dresser car has anything under 400hp its a total freaking joke.

Biggest lol of it all is my then 24 year old Supra with bolt on's and a boost controller will have more hp then a car coming out in 2019

[Zanity]

interior looks like the 2019 Lexus IS series

[EDWYER]

Originally Posted by supra93

The best shot of the gauges.

Nice.

[tennisfreak]

Originally Posted by Nextbooost

What you think the extra 300lbs the Stang Gt has will make a world of difference ? 460 bhp will more then make it up and then some.

If the Supra badge'd blaspheme hair dresser car has anything under 400hp its a total freaking joke.

Biggest lol of it all is my then 24 year old Supra with bolt on's and a boost controller will have more hp then a car coming out in 2019

A Mustang is no comparison.
It's not all about horsepower.

The Mustang is a big heavy cheap plastic piece of crap.
It has tons of problems with engines and transmissions since the 18 refresh.

I'll happily pay more for something a little more refined.
After doing enough track days you learn that horsepower is not the end all be all of enjoyment.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by tennisfreak

A Mustang is no comparison.
It's not all about horsepower.

...

I'll happily pay more for something a little more refined.

After doing enough track days you learn that horsepower is not the end all be all of enjoyment.

You are not the first to make such comments.

So, the Nissan 370Z has been on the market for 10 years. It is a two seat Japanese sports car like the new Toyota Supra, is about the same size, makes about as much power, weighs about the same, and is in fact priced quite a bit less than the Supra is expected to be.

Have you ever considered one? Owned one? If not, why not?

I am trying to understand why the Supra is so attractive to someone who has an M240i while the 370Z has not been.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

You are not the first to make such comments.

So, the Nissan 370Z has been on the market for 10 years. It is a two seat Japanese sports car like the new Toyota Supra, is about the same size, makes about as much power, weighs about the same, and is in fact priced quite a bit less than the Supra is expected to be.

Have you ever considered one? Owned one? If not, why not?

I am trying to understand why the Supra is so attractive to someone who has an M240i while the 370Z has not been.

I'll answer this as best I can, since I've owned/own the following cars:
- 1976 280z
- 2009 370z Touring
- 2015 2 Series (228i)
- 2018 718 Cayman

And had friends when I was young who owned three different generations of Supras (including the original) that I had the good fortune to drive at one time or another.

First point: The 370z's aim was not to be a driver's car. It was to be a modern version of the original 280z -- which was a powerful and good-handling car for the time, but not a great one.
On its face, that would appear to fall in line with the 'like an old Supra' argument as inspiration for the upcoming one. But as is clear now, that is not a primary goal for the new Supra because the old Supra's goal was never to be a driver's car.
That the new Supra's benchmark is a Porsche -- and I bet BMW had as much to do with that as Tadao did -- and that the primary goal is for it to have world-class handling is an opposition to the stated purpose of all three cars mentioned above.

Second point: Handling frequently begets power. Yes, there are cars that have gobs of both -- but more frequently, the best-handling cars are not the most powerful cars. Why is this? Because lots of power has to be applied to the ground to be used, or the 'handling' suffers. This is particularly true of RWD cars, as many of us know.
So why should a car (the new Supra) that has a stated primary goal of being one of the best-handling cars available HAVE to have 400+ HP? Answer: It doesn't, and to many, it shouldn't. If it did, it wouldn't be using a ZF8, I can guarantee you that ... which brings me to my next point:

Third point: Those who talk horsepower and horsepower only in modern cars are simpletons. Why do I say this? Because it's torque that matters more in a street car. VW, Porsche, M-B, Audi, and BMW all understand this, as do many other European makers -- and the Japanese are coming around on it.
I bring this up for three reasons:
- Because one of the best things about the 370z was its torque output, not its horsepower output. Same goes with the 2 Series cars, 4-pot and 6-pot alike. Same goes with the 718. Simply put: In the right hands, torque frequently augments great handling. Horsepower rarely does.
- Torque is the biggest performance advantage of a hybrid powertrain. (Yes, there will be a hybrid Supra.) Horsepower, not so much.
- Torque can make a lighter car feel more powerful horsepower-wise than it really is. I can't tell you how much joy I felt outrunning P-cars in my li'l chipped 1.8T 2002 GTi way back when ... or outlapping motorcycles with nearly twice as much HP as my SV650 track bike.

The 370z is not a fair comparison to make to the new Supra. Yes, there are similarities. But the end goals for those cars were/are very different, IMHO.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

The 370z is not a fair comparison to make to the new Supra. Yes, there are similarities. But the end goals for those cars were/are very different, IMHO.

I suppose. I do recall positive comparisons drawn between the 370Z and Boxster at the time it was first released. I'm sure it wasn't on equal footing, but it was nevertheless reviewed favorably against much more expensive sports cars and praised at its price point.

But that was some ten years ago, and Porsche has moved the bar significantly while the 370Z has remained pretty much stuck in time, although I'm sure some incremental improvements were made at some point. So, regardless of what the goals might have been for these two, benchmarking a modern day Porsche should theoretically put the Supra higher up the performance ladder than where the 370Z's decade-old target leaves it today. Still, it's not to clear to me that this new Supra is going to excite the sports crowd enough beyond what a 370Z does to the tune of extracting ten thousand more dollars from their wallets.

Meanwhile, the Mustangs and Camaros that some purists like to dump on have absolutely set the automotive community afire over the past few years, gaining widespread acclaim by bringing handling on par with any German or Japanese sport coupe, and, combined with their traditional with high powered V8s, out accelerating them handily in many cases. This, all for about the price of an entry level German or Japanese luxury sedan. That's their killer application.

I don't see the Supra's calling card in all of this. I have no skin in this game as I haven't the room for a two seat car in my life. But as I look at what the Supra is expected to bring to the table vs. what's on the market at its price point, I struggle to imagine what kind of hype it will genuinely manage to muster.

[NickyC]

Originally Posted by tennisfreak

The Mustang is a big heavy cheap plastic piece of crap. It has tons of problems with engines and transmissions since the 18 refresh.

I've read that big heavy cheap plastic piece of crap Mustang GT is faster around a track than my ///M4...

[tennisfreak]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

You are not the first to make such comments.

So, the Nissan 370Z has been on the market for 10 years. It is a two seat Japanese sports car like the new Toyota Supra, is about the same size, makes about as much power, weighs about the same, and is in fact priced quite a bit less than the Supra is expected to be.

Have you ever considered one? Owned one? If not, why not?

I am trying to understand why the Supra is so attractive to someone who has an M240i while the 370Z has not been.

Yes I've driven one and almost purchased one but I ended up purchasing a Scion Fr-s instead at the time.
That car had very little power but it's driving experience was perfection. Literally the best driving experience I ever felt outside of a Porsche Cayman.

The 370z is surprisingly not a very good driving experience. It feels too heavy for what it is.
Also Nissan tends to cheap out in places and I'm not a huge fan of their products overall.

[tennisfreak]

Originally Posted by NickyC

I've read that big heavy cheap plastic piece of crap Mustang GT is faster around a track than my ///M4...

True but speed isn't everything for me.
I need to actually enjoy what I'm driving and want to be in it everyday.
Mustang is too cheap and not very comfortable.

[supra93]

ec15 put together all the available images, and this was the most compete picture he came up with.

[mkoesel]

^^^ Someone needs to tell the designers that they missed a little spot there at the rear.

But, in seriousness, that's a pretty cool little jigsaw puzzle he pieced together.

[baege]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

You are not the first to make such comments.

So, the Nissan 370Z has been on the market for 10 years. It is a two seat Japanese sports car like the new Toyota Supra, is about the same size, makes about as much power, weighs about the same, and is in fact priced quite a bit less than the Supra is expected to be.

Have you ever considered one? Owned one? If not, why not?

I am trying to understand why the Supra is so attractive to someone who has an M240i while the 370Z has not been.

I had a 350z and now have an m240i

simple answer: the 370z engine is a coarse unlikable brute that sounds like a coffee grinder above 3500 rpm

the b58 is a buttery smooth peach of an engine

case closed

[NickyC]

Originally Posted by supra93

ec15 put together all the available images, and this was the most compete picture he came up with.

Oh noes, the Supra has fallen victim to the Huracan rear bumper delete disease!!

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by tennisfreak

The 370z is surprisingly not a very good driving experience. It feels too heavy for what it is.

Well, by the numbers, the Supra is going to weigh about the same, so you might get that same feeling. And if you don't then it was probably not the 370Z's weight that you were feeling and reacting negatively to to begin with.

Also Nissan tends to cheap out in places and I'm not a huge fan of their products overall.

Fair enough, but that bit of subjectivity does not sound like a major leg up for the Supra. I mean Toyota has been guilty of cheapness too (and plenty of others have as well - we don't need to single out these two). This sounds little different from the mud slinging that takes place between Camaro and Mustang crowds. You can pick on little things with either one, but at the end of the day both offer great performance value.

Originally Posted by baege

simple answer: the 370z engine is a coarse unlikable brute that sounds like a coffee grinder above 3500 rpm

the b58 is a buttery smooth peach of an engine

case closed

For $10k more, it had better be one hell of a buttered peach. Someone should tell Ford they can charge an extra $10k for the Mustang GT over the Camaro SS - it's got that sweet 7500 RPM DOHC V8 after all. Surely people would pay for the pleasure.

[Mingwan]

So, it basicall looks exactly like the renders we’ve been seeing for the past several months.

[supra93]

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/wha...diagrams.1406/

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by baege

simple answer: the 370z engine is a coarse unlikable brute that sounds like a coffee grinder above 3500 rpm

This and 370Z one of most annoying rackets at a track event. Can't stand the way they sound with modified exhaust.

Originally Posted by baege

the b58 is a buttery smooth peach of an engine

+1
B58 also sounds amazing, also a simple tune away from easy daily drivable 450hp.

[Z K]

I'm sure the Supra will be tuneable to add horsepower as with any turbo car.

But let's be real. It is a rebadged hardtop Z4.