[BlkGS]

I disagree with the idea that "doing crazy shit with design" is good.

Crazy and different for the sake of different is stupid. Different because of a valid reason, sure. But different just to stand out and be different, no.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

I disagree with the idea that "doing crazy shit with design" is good.

Crazy and different for the sake of different is stupid. Different because of a valid reason, sure. But different just to stand out and be different, no.

You can disagree but design is subjective. Your crazy shit is someone else's not crazy and just what they’ve been waiting for.

Like fake grills on EVs… why???

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

The shit resale value of EVs will eventually work itself out. If they're cheap enough, people will buy them. Like if I could get a Taycan Cross Turismo Turbo S for like $50k, I'd accept the trade offs it has for price. But dealers are bringing them in for topuch money and then never sell them

Or well, in the case of the Taycan Porsche dealers won't even take them in on trade because they can't sell them.

The wasp has a huge sting for the unwary even at seemingly bargain price, battery degradation and limited use.
Cue for this one.

[kyriian]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

You can disagree but design is subjective. Your crazy shit is someone else's not crazy and just what they’ve been waiting for.

Like fake grills on EVs… why???

If the design intent is to do 'crazy shit' and that's the target audience then its fine, but I hope even Franz von Holzhausen, as much of a Musk fanatic he is, understand that the appeal will be limited to that target audience and unlikely to reach mass appeal.

The original concept was sold on a much too lofty price and some typical Musk style promises that never quite delivered, obviously many who plop down cash for one back then saw that as the appeal and accepted the controversial design as a trade-off, and bailed when those appealing points no longer exists once the truck is in production.

For fake grills, I have a suspicion it is more for familiarity for public appeal. EVs can be anything technically, but psychology of a typical car buyer likely still see a 'face' in their cars, and without a grille there it can appear foreign, even frightening.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by kyriian

If the design intent is to do 'crazy shit' and that's the target audience then its fine, but I hope even Franz von Holzhausen, as much of a Musk fanatic he is, understand that the appeal will be limited to that target audience and unlikely to reach mass appeal.

I think there’s enough people who will like it. At least for the cybertruck. Honestly the only thing holding it back IMO is the price and the fact it’s an EV “truck”. I think that limits the market much more than its looks.

The original concept was sold on a much too lofty price and some typical Musk style promises that never quite delivered, obviously many who plop down cash for one back then saw that as the appeal and accepted the controversial design as a trade-off, and bailed when those appealing points no longer exists once the truck is in production.

I wont argue against that. The man is the king of vaporware. I feel like he has no filter between his brain and his mouth. He WANTS the cybertruck to cost $40k or whatever they had announced originally so he just says that's going to be the price even though they have no idea if that’s even possible. Their latest cyber taxi event was totally fake. No actually real info on anything, just hopes and dreams.

That being said just because he’s usually full of shit doesn’t mean I will take credit away from what he’s actually done (and by him I mean a whole team of engineers etc). I personally think he single handedly popularized EVs (for better or worse depending on your views). Still today IMO Tesla offers the best EV experience. Maybe you don’t want that and that’s fine, but if you do… Tesla is the best from all the other EVs I’ve tried.

Even the “full self driving” which I think is his biggest scam/vaporware is actually very impressive. They did a 30 day trial for everyone a few months back so I got to try it (I’m certainly not paying for it) and I was impressed. Would I let it actually drive me by itself? Fuck no! However what it can do is still pretty impressive. His hype is what makes it a let down.

For fake grills, I have a suspicion it is more for familiarity for public appeal. EVs can be anything technically, but psychology of a typical car buyer likely still see a 'face' in their cars, and without a grille there it can appear foreign, even frightening.

That’s kind of my point. Everyone is playing it safe because that’s what people are use to. That’s why I like the idea of the “crazy” cybertruck design. Even the other models they have done away with the fake grills in a much for subdued fashion. Someone has to be the one who says having a grill on a EV is stupid and is limiting our design possibilities… we are not going to do it and yes they may pay for it with less sales, but if no one does it we will have the same shit forever.

[BlkGS]

Cybertrucks looks are absolutely limited it's sales. While it's price, poor build quality, and kind of uselessness also don't help it, discounting it's looks as driving people away as well is silly.

Personally, I think the right way to do an EV is toake.it a duplicate of the ICE version. F150 Lightning is a decent example, it's an F150 with an EV powertrain, though admittedly they should have gone EVEN MORE that way so it would have received the two refreshes it's missed. BMW is doing this with the I40, i5, i7, and it's a great choice, make the EV just a powertrain swap of the normal vehicle, le enraging the platform to reduce costs. Plus then you don't end up with something dorky looking like most EVs.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Cybertrucks looks are absolutely limited it's sales. While it's price, poor build quality, and kind of uselessness also don't help it, discounting it's looks as driving people away as well is silly.

Personally, I think the right way to do an EV is toake.it a duplicate of the ICE version. F150 Lightning is a decent example, it's an F150 with an EV powertrain, though admittedly they should have gone EVEN MORE that way so it would have received the two refreshes it's missed. BMW is doing this with the I40, i5, i7, and it's a great choice, make the EV just a powertrain swap of the normal vehicle, le enraging the platform to reduce costs. Plus then you don't end up with something dorky looking like most EVs.

Tesla is likely very excited about CT sales.

KBB said. “In fact, Cybertruck outsold every other available EV except for two – Tesla’s popular Model Y and Model 3.”

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brookec...price-crashes/

Per Sawyer Merritt on X.com

NEWS: The $100,000 Tesla Cybertruck (16,692 units) outsold the combined sales of all these EV pickup trucks in Q3:

• Ford F-150 Lightning: 7,162
• Hummer EV: 4,305
• Rivian R1T: 3,817
• GMC Sierra EV: 387

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Cybertrucks looks are absolutely limited it's sales. While it's price, poor build quality, and kind of uselessness also don't help it, discounting it's looks as driving people away as well is silly.

Personally, I think the right way to do an EV is toake.it a duplicate of the ICE version. F150 Lightning is a decent example, it's an F150 with an EV powertrain, though admittedly they should have gone EVEN MORE that way so it would have received the two refreshes it's missed. BMW is doing this with the I40, i5, i7, and it's a great choice, make the EV just a powertrain swap of the normal vehicle, le enraging the platform to reduce costs. Plus then you don't end up with something dorky looking like most EVs.

It would certainly be the wise BUSINESS choice. I’m sure there’s a lot of people like you. Look at their other models. Very bland, very inoffensive. However, I’m personally glad they didn’t make another cookie cutter “truck”. Again design is subjective, if you like the same old stuff they have been doing for years that’s fine.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by gblansten

Tesla is likely very excited about CT sales.

KBB said. “In fact, Cybertruck outsold every other available EV except for two – Tesla’s popular Model Y and Model 3.”

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brookec...price-crashes/

Per Sawyer Merritt on X.com

NEWS: The $100,000 Tesla Cybertruck (16,692 units) outsold the combined sales of all these EV pickup trucks in Q3:

• Ford F-150 Lightning: 7,162
• Hummer EV: 4,305
• Rivian R1T: 3,817
• GMC Sierra EV: 387

I’ve been seeing cybertrucks out in the wild all the time now.

Here is my thinking. EV trucks are not ready for actual truck guys. So the current offerings cater to people who just want a truck for fun, maybe some home depot runs, maybe tow a small boat to local ramps etc.

They are also willing to spend $100k on one. Makes me think they want something ”cool” and by cool I mean something that stands out. Nothing does that more than the cybertruck. Maybe the hummer in second place.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

I’ve been seeing cybertrucks out in the wild all the time now.

Here is my thinking. EV trucks are not ready for actual truck guys. So the current offerings cater to people who just want a truck for fun, maybe some home depot runs, maybe tow a small boat to local ramps etc.

They are also willing to spend $100k on one. Makes me think they want something ”cool” and by cool I mean something that stands out. Nothing does that more than the cybertruck. Maybe the hummer in second place.

I agree. Similarly, I scratched the SUV itch a few years ago and really enjoyed having an X5M.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

I’ve been seeing cybertrucks out in the wild all the time now.

Here is my thinking. EV trucks are not ready for actual truck guys. So the current offerings cater to people who just want a truck for fun, maybe some home depot runs, maybe tow a small boat to local ramps etc.

They are also willing to spend $100k on one. Makes me think they want something ”cool” and by cool I mean something that stands out. Nothing does that more than the cybertruck. Maybe the hummer in second place.

I would agree with that overall. CT is for people who want to be looked at and want to tell everyone they have a CT. All of the CTs I see are used like regular ass cars, which makes sense, that's what it's good for.

That said, outside of the sheer ugly.of them, I feel like they've lost their shock value already. It used to be people would see them and exclaim.how ugly they were. Now they're ugly but nobody cares.

I know in like fond better ways to spend 100k.

[M5Rick]

Boss of Skoda has joined the growing amount of people who are saying EV set targets will put car manufacturers out of business.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

I would agree with that overall. CT is for people who want to be looked at and want to tell everyone they have a CT. All of the CTs I see are used like regular ass cars, which makes sense, that's what it's good for.

That said, outside of the sheer ugly.of them, I feel like they've lost their shock value already. It used to be people would see them and exclaim.how ugly they were. Now they're ugly but nobody cares.

I know in like fond better ways to spend 100k.

I've had a pickup in my fleet for the past 25 years and before that I a pickup for a period of 10 years or so. Just because it has a pickup box on it doesn't mean a pickup needs to be full every time you drive it. It's the reason 4-door pickups have become so popular over the past 35 years, because they are used as private transportation as well as utility. It's no different than a sedan that runs 90% of the time with an empty trunk and back seat, or a minivan/wagon that does the same.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I've had a pickup in my fleet for the past 25 years and before that I a pickup for a period of 10 years or so. Just because it has a pickup box on it doesn't mean a pickup needs to be full every time you drive it. It's the reason 4-door pickups have become so popular over the past 35 years, because they are used as private transportation as well as utility. It's no different than a sedan that runs 90% of the time with an empty trunk and back seat, or a minivan/wagon that does the same.

Totally agree. To be honest, my favorite trucks we've had were explorer sport tracks (like a 4' bed), my crew cab Colorado (5' bed), and the Chevy avalanche (4-5' bed but with a mid gate).

The bed for me is realistically an open trunk for dirty stuff or tall stuff. It's for a new appliance, bags of mulch, a pallet of sod, etc. if I needed to haul a LOT of stuff, I'd put it in a trailer.

My little Colorado hauled scoops of dirt and mulch in the back with ease. Even had the room for me to stand on the tailgate with a shovel to scoop it out.

I don't need or want a 6+ foot bed. If I could buy a new Escalade EXT (preferably as a V model) I'd do it in a heartbeat.

My comment about the CT being used as a regular car is that I haven't seen a single one getting lumber or mulch or anything at home depot. I haven't seen one pulling a trailer. I think a lot of the people buying them are just buying them for the shock and whatever. I think even more bought them thinking they could resell them for a profit.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Totally agree. To be honest, my favorite trucks we've had were explorer sport tracks (like a 4' bed), my crew cab Colorado (5' bed), and the Chevy avalanche (4-5' bed but with a mid gate).

The bed for me is realistically an open trunk for dirty stuff or tall stuff. It's for a new appliance, bags of mulch, a pallet of sod, etc. if I needed to haul a LOT of stuff, I'd put it in a trailer.

My little Colorado hauled scoops of dirt and mulch in the back with ease. Even had the room for me to stand on the tailgate with a shovel to scoop it out.

I don't need or want a 6+ foot bed. If I could buy a new Escalade EXT (preferably as a V model) I'd do it in a heartbeat.

My comment about the CT being used as a regular car is that I haven't seen a single one getting lumber or mulch or anything at home depot. I haven't seen one pulling a trailer. I think a lot of the people buying them are just buying them for the shock and whatever. I think even more bought them thinking they could resell them for a profit.

I think most people buying them are just excited about something different or probably enjoying the vehicle and are not bad or horrible people.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by gblansten

I think most people buying them are just excited about something different or probably enjoying the vehicle and are not bad or horrible people.

Unless they are builders? kidding. Couldn't see myself in a pick up, those with rear seats don't seem to be around here but Ford is now pushing their Ranger in non stop ads with a female driving one oh and I see Isuzu too.

[medphysdave]

Originally Posted by gblansten

I think most people buying them are just excited about something different or probably enjoying the vehicle and are not bad or horrible people.

That's me. I had to laugh yesterday when I was at a stop light and there were 3 white model ys at the same light. I like Tesla, but I didn't want to have the same car that everyone else has.

I think truck are the better starting point for electric. A lot of utility and cost savings if you can charge at home each day. Plus EV is adding a lot of performance characteristics to trucks that make the fun. Hummer truck has 1000hp and the SUV has 850. They weigh almost 10000 lbs and gan do 0 to 60 in under 4s. That's crazy. They handle like poop because of the weight, but technology does a pretty good job hiding the weight.

A current trend that could help offset costs is the vehicle to home power tech. If you've ever priced a whole home battery or generator system. Being able to use your cars battery is a big perk.

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

A current trend that could help offset costs is the vehicle to home power tech. If you've ever priced a whole home battery or generator system. Being able to use your cars battery is a big perk.

Sure, just buy the EV, spend a couple of thousand installing a fast charger in the garage and a thousand installing a generator input and transfer switch at the breaker box in the house. Hope the outage does not last longer than a couple of days — most don’t but some in my area have lasted a week. Expect every public charging station to be full because other EV owners in the same situation are all charging at the ones that are working during the outage.

I would not rationalize the purchase of an EV based on saving half the cost of a permanently installed generator. If you already have the EV and it can supply 240V, then I would think about it. If you instead were going to buy a whole home battery system, I agree the EV battery probably has the same or greater capacity and using it instead makes sense.

[medphysdave]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Sure, just buy the EV, spend a couple of thousand installing a fast charger in the garage and a thousand installing a generator input and transfer switch at the breaker box in the house. Hope the outage does not last longer than a couple of days — most don’t but some in my area have lasted a week. Expect every public charging station to be full because other EV owners in the same situation are all charging at the ones that are working during the outage.

I would not rationalize the purchase of an EV based on saving half the cost of a permanently installed generator. If you already have the EV and it can supply 240V, then I would think about it. If you instead were going to buy a whole home battery system, I agree the EV battery probably has the same or greater capacity and using it instead makes sense.

I agree, don't go buy an EV for this purpose. If you were already in the market for putting in a transfer switch of a generator and your thinking about an EV there could be some added benefit. I was pricing an 18kw battery backup system. Looking at about 15k with installation. The new GMC Denali has a pretty big battery pack that could power essentials for a while. It's a shame the Hummer can't do it with its 200kw battery pack.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Sure, just buy the EV, spend a couple of thousand installing a fast charger in the garage and a thousand installing a generator input and transfer switch at the breaker box in the house. Hope the outage does not last longer than a couple of days — most don’t but some in my area have lasted a week. Expect every public charging station to be full because other EV owners in the same situation are all charging at the ones that are working during the outage.

I would not rationalize the purchase of an EV based on saving half the cost of a permanently installed generator. If you already have the EV and it can supply 240V, then I would think about it. If you instead were going to buy a whole home battery system, I agree the EV battery probably has the same or greater capacity and using it instead makes sense.

Riiight because most people buying a 100k EV are also 1 car households.

I actually just went through a power outage in NC. While I did not have my Tesla up there I can tell you we were without power for about a week and if I had to guess I drove less than MAYBE 20 miles total. At that rate If I had only had my Tesla I would have been good for like 12 weeks. Not to mention we did not get hit bad, mostly just downed trees knocking down power lines. The area that were actually hit bad had no gas either.

Now if you are a one car household and often lose power for months you should definitely not get an EV.

[Efthreeoh]

One can install a 6,500 watt portable generator at their house for under $1,200 if they know how do do simple electrical wiring. All the parts are available at their local Lowes Depot.

[Guvna]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

One can install a 6,500 watt portable generator at their house for under $1,200 if they know how do do simple electrical wiring. All the parts are available at their local Lowes Depot.

You trust your neighbor that much?