[Lups]

Originally Posted by italia

Have to disagree with this sentiment. I've owned four Italian motorcycles (still have 2) and haven't experienced issues with maintenance, repair, modification or warranty. Yes, I have friends who had tank expansion issues.

Italian cars and motorcycles made today unfairly suffer from actual poor experiences that owners had in the 60's, 70's, 80's. Somehow, the reputation of years past has bled over to today, though mostly I hear it from people who've not owned a modern Italian car or motorcycle.

Friends that I have with BMW S1000R's have had more issues with their bikes than my friends with MV Agusta, Ducati, Bimota and Moto Guzzi. Now Aprilia is a bit of a different story.

I'm on total here say on this, I have no experience one way or the other. But the thing I can comment on is that in traffic you notice the Italians, Germans just blend in. Your garage must be heaven for petrol heads. =)

[italia]

Originally Posted by Lups

I'm on total here say on this, I have no experience one way or the other. But the thing I can comment on is that in traffic you notice the Italians, Germans just blend in. Your garage must be heaven for petrol heads. =)

It's all good Lups. So now you can go out and tell people, "I hear that Italian motorcycles are really as reliable as other motorcycles."

And eventually, the 30-50 year old undeserved reputation will fade away.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by italia

It's all good Lups. So now you can go out and tell people, "I hear that Italian motorcycles are really as reliable as other motorcycles."

And eventually, the 30-50 year old undeserved reputation will fade away.

Stereotypes never die, we just come up with new ones!

Cheers, the Dumb blond.

[Billup]

Originally Posted by Lups

Stereotypes never die, we just come up with new ones!

Cheers, the Dumb blond.

No dumb blonde, just misinformed. There is a lot of information spewed from mouths that don't know to others that don't know, which in turn, creates a series of unfortunate events.

Should you come to the conclusion you end up wanting to look for a motorcycle, there are countless sources that will give you straight forward answers as to what would be the most practical bike for you. Do a little research and speak to actual owners (or surf specific forums) as you will get a better idea of what the bikes are actually about.

[ddk632]

I've owned 3 Italian bikes, a German bike, and 2 Japanese bikes.

Italian
2001 Ducati 748S - warranty clutch at 6k miles, some twitchy electronics. Beside that no issues.
2001 Aprilia SL1000 Falco - never a single issue. Scared little children when started.
2012 Ducati Diavel Carbon - engine plug seal @ 7k-ish, faulty thermostat. Bedside that no issues

German
2006 BMW K1200R - major tranny issue, 2nd gear unusable at 7k miles, $4000 repair, sold bike as was instead. Known issue that BMW wouldn't cover since I was just outside of warranty.

Japanese
1990 Suzuki GS500 - bad voltage regulator and pinched wires causing erratic kill of engine. It was from old age. Engine and transmission bulletproof. Ran it until it ran no more (including many track days and hard canyon runs)
2000 Suzuki SV650 - raced, crashed, duct taped, raced and crashed more, ran hard 100% of the time, never an issue except front brakes failed once (fluid came out) more likely my own fault there. That engine was a tank.

Overall the worst issue I've had on a bike has been with my BMW. I still love BMW though. The point is there can be a lemon with any brand, and some models/years of any brand can have known issues.

Ducati has been notorious for crap electronics, but have gotten much better. My 748S would literally have headlights flickering during a drizzle. My Diavel hasn't had a single electrical issue and I've ridden it in some heavy downpours.

Amazingly, my Aprilia was the one bike I never had a single issue with.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by Billup

No dumb blonde, just misinformed. There is a lot of information spewed from mouths that don't know to others that don't know, which in turn, creates a series of unfortunate events.

Should you come to the conclusion you end up wanting to look for a motorcycle, there are countless sources that will give you straight forward answers as to what would be the most practical bike for you. Do a little research and speak to actual owners (or surf specific forums) as you will get a better idea of what the bikes are actually about.

I was just underlining the stereotype thing, but thank you for your tip.

The thing is, that we moved here for two years, and the total lack of social life ( a good thing I might add) saves me all the time to play around with motors. Why the hell not, gas is free compared the EU prices and one needs a hobby.

Btw, Most of the time I actually can deliver my point very well but when it comes to this stuff, cars or bikes, be patient. My inner google translator totally turns me in to an idiot from time to time. And please, correct me every time, I hate that a straight six, V6 and everything else gets mixed up in translations, It's just the lack of use in this kind of vocabulary.

Lame, I know.

[Litos]

Originally Posted by Lups

straight six V6

sounds like a strong engine...

[Lups]

Originally Posted by Litos

sounds like a strong engine...

forgot a comma, thank you. That kind of helped with the point

[Litos]

Originally Posted by Lups

forgot a comma, thank you. That kind of helped with the point

even with a comma, there is no such thing as a straight six V6...

just sayin....

[Lups]

Originally Posted by Litos

even with a comma, there is no such thing as a straight six V6...

just sayin....

It was ment as a listing of different type of six, sorry about that, I was just trying to say, that I get the most simple things wrong most of the time while typing, I seem to be okay with the first option of that comes in to my mind. Just like googles translator. there fore instead of using the right type of the engine, I probably will mess up big time just because I don't even see my mistake, even knowing the right answer, cause it doesn't register in my brain. If there is something right in the name (the 6 was used as an example, next time I will use ice cream instead, those blends are the worst for me to translate) I'm content in my finding.

I should pay more of attention on this tendency not to check every paragraph but again only reading about this stuff will probably make my head straight with these.

The problems of the third language, my excuse and I will be using that one a lot.

[zx10guy]

Of course my experience is anecdotal. There were other issues with my 848 apart from the tank problem. I had a head gasket failure, bad clutch master, immobilzer antenna ring malfunction, burned out LED on the right turn signal/mirror assembly, and I think one or two other minor issues. Those that know me, know I take care of my bikes.

My 04 ZX-10R has only had two issues. The front wheel was replaced as a factory recall. And the engine has developed a valve cover gasket oil leak which is common for this engine. Other than that, the bike has been rock solid.

With the S1000RR, I only have to go by my limited experience with using them at the California Superbike School. The S1000RRs get beat on quite a bit but granted, are constantly maintained by the school's mechanic team. But based on what I've seen which is 28+ S1000RRs being run HARD for 4 days at any given track school location, I've never seen one fail due to a mechanical break down.

Do I fault Ducati with all the mechanical problems I've had? No. Do I fault Ducati for the tank issue? An unequivocal, YES. This is an engineering problem pure and simple which Ducati has not addressed in a satisfactory way. For a brand which has such a history and pedigree, it is unacceptable for a company to get away with what they have. But they can because for some reason, many Ducati owners/enthusiasts act like cult members and have given Ducati a pass on this issue even blindly defending Ducati.

[ddk632]

BMW knew about the 2006 K1200R transmission problem (the gears needed to be undercut) and refused to help many (most, I'd presume, but not all) owners and never issued a recall, despite the clear fact that the transmission had a problem from the factory. They then updated the later model years with undercut gears to prevent the problem.

I also hate the way it was handled, but I still give BMW a pass.

Business is business.

Generally speaking Japanese bikes, like their 4-wheeled counterparts, are known to be reliable and rock solid. But they don't sing like or have the soul of a Ducati

[zx10guy]

The Ducati fuel tank issue spanned multiple models and multiple years. When reports of this were starting to get out, Ducati played dumb about it. The only fix Ducati did in regards to the superbikes was to replace the entire model line with the 1199 and 899 which now use metal tanks. There were those of us which proposed to Ducati an option where we paid the price difference between the stock tank and the Ducati Performance aluminum tank. Ducati flat out denied that option. I'm not sure how bad the transmission problem was with the 2006 K1200R, but with the Ducati expanding fuel tank issue, it was a safety issue too. There were instances where the tank expanded in a manner which cracked the internal vent tubes which caused fuel to leak all over the top of the motor.

With regards to bikes having a soul, I sort of get the mystique of having a Ducati L twin with my experience with my 848. But I don't get fanatical about it. I got into sport bikes for the shear performance and I expect some level of reliability. I could care less about the soul. Having actually taken a S1000RR through its paces in an environment where it was designed for (ie the track), I would say the S1000RR has plenty of soul.

[ddk632]

That was my point though, companies go through issues and decide business wise how to deal with them. I'm not saying Ducati is perfect. Nor am I saying BMW is crap because of my K1200R. In fact I said the opposite, I enjoyed that bike and all of my BMW cars and will continue to do so, even with some issues here and there. I've been lucky with my Ducati's and haven't had major issues while I know others who have.

And I didn't say a BMW S1000RR has no soul. In fact I happen to really like the S1000RR and BMW motorcycles generally goofy styling. And I don't think any sane individual in the know can ever knock the performance of the BMW. They really brought it when they released that bike!

What I did say was that Japanese bikes don't sing like (have the exhaust note) that a Ducati has, and they don't have the soul of a Ducati... That's a personal opinion of mine where I tend to feel a more passionate connection with my Ducs over my Suzuki bikes I've owned - which in no way means I didn't enjoy them. Even the 37bhp GS500 was a blast to ride, and I had it at a ton of track days at the Streets of Willow. Just that there's that something inexplicable when I rode my 748S and now the Diavel that is only there with the Ducs.

The K1200R was also an awesome machine. Silly fast (170hp @ crank, top speed 169 indicated) and handled very well even with the Paralever front suspension, even at the track. I honestly was very bummed when I decided to sell it as it wasn't worth financially to drop $4k into the bike to fix the transmission at that time. So I sold it and got a Diavel. But I loved that bike, man.

Just wanted to clear it up, I am not knocking BMW or Japanese bikes with my statement in my previous post.

Edit to add, the Honda RC51, sometimes referred to as the "Honda Ducati", does actually sing like a Ducati

[Razzy]

Me and the bike. Went for a little more of a personal touch.

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by ddk632

That was my point though, companies go through issues and decide business wise how to deal with them. I'm not saying Ducati is perfect. Nor am I saying BMW is crap because of my K1200R. In fact I said the opposite, I enjoyed that bike and all of my BMW cars and will continue to do so, even with some issues here and there. I've been lucky with my Ducati's and haven't had major issues while I know others who have.

And I didn't say a BMW S1000RR has no soul. In fact I happen to really like the S1000RR and BMW motorcycles generally goofy styling. And I don't think any sane individual in the know can ever knock the performance of the BMW. They really brought it when they released that bike!

What I did say was that Japanese bikes don't sing like (have the exhaust note) that a Ducati has, and they don't have the soul of a Ducati... That's a personal opinion of mine where I tend to feel a more passionate connection with my Ducs over my Suzuki bikes I've owned - which in no way means I didn't enjoy them. Even the 37bhp GS500 was a blast to ride, and I had it at a ton of track days at the Streets of Willow. Just that there's that something inexplicable when I rode my 748S and now the Diavel that is only there with the Ducs.

The K1200R was also an awesome machine. Silly fast (170hp @ crank, top speed 169 indicated) and handled very well even with the Paralever front suspension, even at the track. I honestly was very bummed when I decided to sell it as it wasn't worth financially to drop $4k into the bike to fix the transmission at that time. So I sold it and got a Diavel. But I loved that bike, man.

Just wanted to clear it up, I am not knocking BMW or Japanese bikes with my statement in my previous post.

Edit to add, the Honda RC51, sometimes referred to as the "Honda Ducati", does actually sing like a Ducati

I still have dreams about the sound of my old RC51.... My father still maintains that it was the best internal combustion engine he's ever heard run.

[TunedM2C]

I don't ride but I saw this jaw dropper at a car show last year and I can't stop thinking about it.

[ddk632]

That's a Ducati Diavel Carbon Black with Termignoni full system exhaust. I have a Diavel Carbon Red, same bike. It's an awesome machine!

[eamon]

Originally Posted by ddk632

I like middleweights (used to race an SV650 in WSMC) and it's newer and more practical to run than a 748R as a dedicated trackbike. And more trick than an 899.... if an 899R came out I'd run that as a dedicated trackbike, if money was no object.

The Panigale and D16RR would be fun on the track but I wouldn't want to run either of those as a full time, dedicated trackbike.

I enjoy the higher corner entry speeds and corner speeds of middleweights more so than the point and shoot style of literbikes. I think a middleweight is a more fun trackbike when it comes to cornering.

Middleweights are more fun than traditional liter bikes, but panigales are frameless.
I was under the impression they weighed the same, if not less than an 848.

[ddk632]

Originally Posted by eamon

Middleweights are more fun than traditional liter bikes, but panigales are frameless.
I was under the impression they weighed the same, if not less than an 848.

It's not just the weight. It's the forces of the engine. Smaller engine tends to be more revvy and peppy, if those are technical terms

I haven't ridden a Pani though, neither the 1199 nor the 899, so maybe it's less pronounced with this generation. Surely, I wouldn't mind testing that out myself!

It was the definitely this way with 996 and 748, not much of a weight difference that I recall (748 was slightly lighter) but the 748 was considered to be a better handling bike, quicker direction changes, and lighter feel.

I'm not an expert on the matter so this is about the limit of my understanding, but from seat of the pants I've noticed it to be true. It doesn't mean you can't rock a Panigale in the canyons, of course, it comes down to rider skill... But apples to apples (same rider) this holds true, in a general sense.

I used to be hit the canyons pretty hard with my Aprilia SL1000 Falco, in Malibu (mostly tight canyons) but it was more work and I was still faster through the same canyons on my SV650.

[eamon]

Originally Posted by ddk632

It's not just the weight. It's the forces of the engine. Smaller engine tends to be more revvy and peppy, if those are technical terms

I haven't ridden a Pani though, neither the 1199 nor the 899, so maybe it's less pronounced with this generation. Surely, I wouldn't mind testing that out myself!

It was the definitely this way with 996 and 748, not much of a weight difference that I recall (748 was slightly lighter) but the 748 was considered to be a better handling bike, quicker direction changes, and lighter feel.

I'm not an expert on the matter so this is about the limit of my understanding, but from seat of the pants I've noticed it to be true. It doesn't mean you can't rock a Panigale in the canyons, of course, it comes down to rider skill... But apples to apples (same rider) this holds true, in a general sense.

I used to be hit the canyons pretty hard with my Aprilia SL1000 Falco, in Malibu (mostly tight canyons) but it was more work and I was still faster through the same canyons on my SV650.

Hmm interesting take
I haven't tracked any yet so would love to give it a try myself someday

[ddk632]

You gotta get to the track!!!!

It is beyond awesome.