[c1pher]

Originally Posted by Never_Enough

Why? It would be heavy, slow & boring. See RC-F. A shame b/c the RC-F is a sexy car

For exactly those reasons. The Z4 would be considered a luxury version albeit a BMW and not a Lexus. I would be curious what Lexus would do for a more upscale hardtop version. Maybe it adds 100lbs....the RC is an already bloated platform they decided to hot up. This could be proper from the beginning.

[supra93]

[avantegardestyle]

This Is About To Be A Monumental Letdown

[supra93]

[Alfisti]

This has NSX written all over it.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

This has NSX written all over it.

You mean it would have been cool ten years ago?

[supra93]

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by 10"

You're not an F1 driver. You don't race your car on a track competitively. That analogy is entirely foolish.

Most of us by sports and sporty cars for entertainment and engagement. We don't care about lap times. We care about the sound, the experience, the enjoyment.

Auto gearboxes are fine for people who either (a) don't care about the mechanics of driving or (b) people who have given up on mechanics of driving or (c) people who drive for comfort rather than enjoyment.

I've had an Audi DSG gearbox in the past. It was good...technically good. And so so sooo boring. Can't imagine why people buy sports car with those Crappy Paddle gearboxes....my guess is modern laziness and indifference.

Dude. Chill out.

I'll repeat what I've posted several other times on this forum over the years: I was a manual-only guy until three cars ago. I even shopped for, and owned, two manual SUVs -- that's how hardcore I was about it. All the reasons anyone can give about the advantages and 'spirituality' of manuals applied to me.

Then came both personal (old soccer-injury woes in my left knee) and practical (better MPG, manual modes, quicker, easier modulation, etc.) tipping points, as well as a realization that manuals are simply dying. Now, I'm not a manual-only guy -- and oddly enough, I'm not for many of the same reasons that I was.

YMMV -- and, plainly, it does. But my central point remains salient: It's technological progress that's been accepted by most enthusiasts at this point because even they can't deny the modern auto's advantages. Otherwise performance cars of all types the world over wouldn't use them, they wouldn't sell -- and companies like Audi (which you mention in your post) wouldn't be completely eliminating them from all models -- even performance ones.

I mean, shoot: One could tune a carbuetor all sorts of ways, and the process definitely made you 'more engaged' with your car (or bike, or whatnot). Ergo: Could a carbuetor even work efficiently on a modern ECU-controlled car? I doubt it. Taken farther: Can a manual transmission even work efficiently on an EV? I doubt it.

[Red Bread]

Maybe it helps that my left knee hasn't had the two soccer related surgeries that my right one has, but I read your words and remain unswayed.

Until I can't buy a new car with a manual, I will continue to ignore all autos. And when that moment happens, I'll just buy used.

I use a fountain pen and wear mechanical watches. I even have a few jackets with pocket watch button holes. I'm not Steampunking it up or hitting Renaissance Faires, but I moved on from BMW USA a few years ago because of the lack of manuals.

Ironically, I accept EV'a and their single speeds. Anything is better than a car thinking it knows better than me.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Anything is better than a car thinking it knows better than me.

I never let my DCT shift for me. It operates the clutches, yes, but I tell it when to shift. That said, I get it (I drove cars with manual transmissions for years), and I support your choice.

Regarding the Supra specifically, to me it needs a manual because I think that without it, it loses too much appeal to too many people who would otherwise be the very folks it's targeted at. Whether you believe its trying to be a newer/better 370Z, a vehicle that gives you a taste of the 718 at a lower price, a true sports car alternative for the Mustang/Camaro crowd (like the NASCAR folks seem to be suggesting), or perhaps a sprinkling of each, it should rightly have a manual transmission on offer. Were you to revoke the manual option from any of those vehicles today, you'd likely have hell to contend with. The fans are still rabid in those parts, and these vehicles are some of their last bastions.

I feel like, every time this car's shortcomings are mentioned, there's sort of this awkward conversation about how "no, no, this isn't a car for buyer segment X, it's really for Y", but after awhile you've Venn diagram'd yourself around a few crumbs at the bottom of the enthusiast cookie jar. It's like the business plan is "ZOMG!!! a new Supra - just get it out the door - they'll fly off the lots!!!". Hard to get a warm fuzzy feeling about this.

[Red Bread]

Very well said.

[JasonCSU]

Originally Posted by MGM135is

Is it based on the FRS with just a better motor?it looks like it to me.

No, this is not based on the Toyota/Subaru FRS/BRZ at all. It's an all new platform co-developed with BMW. The FRS/BRZ are also 2+2, while this new Supra and Z4 are 2 seaters.

[supra93]

Color looks orange behind the door.



And those saying it looks tiny, it looks to be more or less about the same size as the A80.

[mr_lab_rat]

Originally Posted by 10"

Definitely...except much worse looking lol. The Z4 Coupe was a wonderful design. This is not...

I actually see it the other way. Loved the way the Z4 concept looked but I'm disappointed with the production version.
At least with camouflage I like the Toyota better so far.

I'm not planning to buy either of them as I just got an M2 and I'm planning to keep it for a long time.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by mr_lab_rat

I actually see it the other way. Loved the way the Z4 concept looked but I'm disappointed with the production version.
At least with camouflage I like the Toyota better so far.

I'm not planning to buy either of them as I just got an M2 and I'm planning to keep it for a long time.

I think the earlier reference was to the E86 Z4 Coupe, not the new Z4.

[supra93]

[mr_lab_rat]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

I think the earlier reference was to the E86 Z4 Coupe, not the new Z4.

Ah, I get it now. My point still stands. I'm not a big fan of the new Z4 (or have they settled on the Z5 name?) design but the Supra looks promising.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Maybe it helps that my left knee hasn't had the two soccer related surgeries that my right one has, but I read your words and remain unswayed.

And I can appreciate that ...

... though you realize that the biggest reason mechanical watches won't die is because in cities where owning a car isn't practical, expensive watches are status symbols equivalent to what car one might own?

OK, OK ... back on topic ...

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

And I can appreciate that ...

... though you realize that the biggest reason mechanical watches won't die is because in cities where owning a car isn't practical, expensive watches are status symbols equivalent to what car one might own?

OK, OK ... back on topic ...

Watches exist for many reasons. I was given a few by my dad and I'll likely pass them and a few of my current ones on to my son.

And even in the city, you can still buy a Pagani shell and mount it in your bedroom. Cars are cooler than watches.

[wdb]

I'm starting to really dig the camouflage. Maybe they'll offer it as an option.

[supra93]

Originally Posted by wdb

I'm starting to really dig the camouflage. Maybe they'll offer it as an option.

http://blog.toyota.co.uk/new-toyota-...-or-not-to-see

Interestingly, Tada was involved in the design process of this camouflage from the beginning, and it has been so well-received within the company and on social media that many have called for it to be made available as a cost option for future buyers. Only time will tell whether their wish will be granted.

[Red Bread]

That's actually brilliant. I've thought for years that whoever offers swirlies will sell it. People pay money for tragically awful matte finishes, why not swirlies?