[Rono63]

What I don’t understand is why the EU and US manufacturers are committing to full EV production when a large part of the world will never buy into the EV environmentalists dream.

They are handing over the Southeast Asia, Africa, mid east, central and South America and maybe Australia markets to the Japanese and Korean manufacturers.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Ummmmm all but one model of the 992.2 is ICE, only the GTS has a battery.

ah i see. but they've definitely dropped the 7 speed manual - right? regardless i can't afford one lol

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Nobody thinks hybrids can't work. I just think that a lot of people are going to exit the market for new cars if everything has to be hybrid of PHEV or EV. Legislation is easily changed. When major companies start falling because nobody can afford the cars that have been legislated into existence, that legislation will change quickly.

Hybrids are known tech, they are relatively easy to make, no one will struggle. A pure EV is another story altogether.

[Car-Addicted]

Ruh-roh
Ford shares tumble 11% after massive earnings miss
Jul 24 2024
Ford’s traditional business operations, known as Ford Blue, earned $1.17 billion during the second quarter, while its Ford Pro commercial business earned $2.56 billion. Its “Model e” electric vehicle unit lost $1.14 billion from April through June.
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/24/ford...s-q2-2024.html

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Ruh-roh
Ford shares tumble 11% after massive earnings miss
Jul 24 2024
Ford’s traditional business operations, known as Ford Blue, earned $1.17 billion during the second quarter, while its Ford Pro commercial business earned $2.56 billion. Its “Model e” electric vehicle unit lost $1.14 billion from April through June.
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/24/ford...s-q2-2024.html

I shouldn't laugh but

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Ruh-roh
Ford shares tumble 11% after massive earnings miss
Jul 24 2024
Ford’s traditional business operations, known as Ford Blue, earned $1.17 billion during the second quarter, while its Ford Pro commercial business earned $2.56 billion. Its “Model e” electric vehicle unit lost $1.14 billion from April through June.
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/24/ford...s-q2-2024.html

Just a Lithium battery test => https://www.youtube.com/shorts/hJSx3S6xFWA

[Leucosticte]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Ruh-roh
Ford shares tumble 11% after massive earnings miss
Jul 24 2024
Ford’s traditional business operations, known as Ford Blue, earned $1.17 billion during the second quarter, while its Ford Pro commercial business earned $2.56 billion. Its “Model e” electric vehicle unit lost $1.14 billion from April through June.
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/24/ford...s-q2-2024.html

Wow, almost thought that was a typo because that's such an insane amount of money.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by Leucosticte

Wow, almost thought that was a typo because that's such an insane amount of money.

Nope

Ford loses $50,000 on every electric car
25 July 2024
Ford loses nearly $50,000 (£38,700) on every electric car it sells, results from the company show, as traditional manufacturers struggle with the switch away from petrol.
The company posted a loss of $1.1bn for its electric vehicle division, Ford E – equivalent to about $47,600 per car. It sold 23,957 electric vehicles (EVs), an increase of 61pc from a year earlier.
The numbers contributed to a torrid first half in which Ford E lost $2.5bn, with the business on track to lose $5bn overall this year.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...-electric-car/

We're losing money on every unit, but we'll make it up in volume.

[gonzo]

Farley be under his desk with a bottle of Titos.

[gonzo]

F close: $11.16

He may have gone to Zanie bars.

[Germanauto]

EVs will continue to catch on, just the economics are a bit dubious at the moment on a mass scale. Their production costs, high MSRPs, poor residuals, high insurance rates, supply chain politics etc. have all proven a challenge. They are clearly being pushed too aggressively.

For sports cars, so far, they've proven undesirable. Take all the above to harsher extremes.

Very sad the ICE Boxsters are getting killed off so soon, wish a more pragmatic PHEV or ICE + EV solution like what they're doing for Macan/Cayenne would've been implemented.

[BlkGS]

What we've seen in the EV market is a rapid slowing of growth. Last quarter it barely grew. They spun it as "Tesla stunk so bad it hid the massive growth of others". That's a (wrong) way to look at it, the reality was that all the sales Tesla lost were the gains made by other manufacturers. There are more people all wanting a slice from the same size pie, so as more competition goes in, everyone has to accept a smaller slice of the pie. Suspect we will see the same thing repeat for Q2 and going forward. There will likely be growth, but it will likely be small, and most new entrants will just be taking their piece of a pie not growing by that much.

What will be interesting is when the automakers start pulling the plug completely, as the huge volumes of high margin sales their business cases were dependent on don't come to pass. I suspect we will see a lot of consolidation in the auto industry. I expect at least one of the big 3 American brands to be absorbed somewhere else. Rivian and the other EV start ups will likely fold or be integrated into larger companies. I could see one of the German big 3 no longer existing as it once did (probably Mercedes).

Dark days for the auto industry are ahead I think.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

For sports cars, so far, they've proven undesirable. Take all the above to harsher extremes.

You need to do more sportscar things obviously. They are making huge strides into things like AutoX, doing things that ICE cars simply can't. At Pikes Peak, 10th overall. Overall. Compare that with the trend in previous years, they are coming on FAST. I speak from experience, racing against them. You are kidding yourself if you think there's no sportscar application.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by RM7

You need to do more sportscar things obviously. They are making huge strides into things like AutoX, doing things that ICE cars simply can't. At Pikes Peak, 10th overall. Overall. Compare that with the trend in previous years, they are coming on FAST. I speak from experience, racing against them. You are kidding yourself if you think there's no sportscar application.

I don't think performance is the question, sportscars are illogical emotive decisions and EV's are emotionless so it's a hard sell.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by RM7

You need to do more sportscar things obviously. They are making huge strides into things like AutoX, doing things that ICE cars simply can't. At Pikes Peak, 10th overall. Overall. Compare that with the trend in previous years, they are coming on FAST. I speak from experience, racing against them. You are kidding yourself if you think there's no sportscar application.

Well when you can have effectively unlimited power output because there's no sanctioning bodies or government agencies dictating how much energy you can use it's pretty easy.

The problem with EVs for sports car is they're just still EVs. ICE sports car have historically had personality that sets them apart from more mundane cars because the nature of ICE powertrains is you have to have the motor be bigger, or rev higher, or have forced induction, or flow air better to make more power. A LS out of a Corvette vs one out of a Tahoe feels totally different, and the same goes across the board

EVs on the other hand, adding more power is as simple as allowing a higher current draw from the battery. You do that with bigger batteries (more weight). A "sports car" version of an EV doesn't add any real character, at most it adds fake character with fake noises and fake gear changes.

The guys that are just about clout chasing with "wow my car is so fast" will buy EVs that pretend to be sports cars. But I just don't see real driving enthusiasts making that switch

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Well when you can have effectively unlimited power output because there's no sanctioning bodies or government agencies dictating how much energy you can use it's pretty easy.

The problem with EVs for sports car is they're just still EVs. ICE sports car have historically had personality that sets them apart from more mundane cars because the nature of ICE powertrains is you have to have the motor be bigger, or rev higher, or have forced induction, or flow air better to make more power. A LS out of a Corvette vs one out of a Tahoe feels totally different, and the same goes across the board

EVs on the other hand, adding more power is as simple as allowing a higher current draw from the battery. You do that with bigger batteries (more weight). A "sports car" version of an EV doesn't add any real character, at most it adds fake character with fake noises and fake gear changes.

The guys that are just about clout chasing with "wow my car is so fast" will buy EVs that pretend to be sports cars. But I just don't see real driving enthusiasts making that switch

Yeah, I agree with this. I have two sports cars, a Z3 Roadster and a Z4 Coupe. Neither are fast, but they can be driven fastly. I've had the Z3 for 27 years and the Z4 for almost 10 and I've not yet tired of either one. The Z3 is light and agile and the Z4 is stiff as a brick and just makes the best noises. They both are quite entertaining at legal road speeds, which is their best attribute. How you'd translate that into a BEV I'm not sure.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Well when you can have effectively unlimited power output because there's no sanctioning bodies or government agencies dictating how much energy you can use it's pretty easy.

The problem with EVs for sports car is they're just still EVs. ICE sports car have historically had personality that sets them apart from more mundane cars because the nature of ICE powertrains is you have to have the motor be bigger, or rev higher, or have forced induction, or flow air better to make more power. A LS out of a Corvette vs one out of a Tahoe feels totally different, and the same goes across the board

EVs on the other hand, adding more power is as simple as allowing a higher current draw from the battery. You do that with bigger batteries (more weight). A "sports car" version of an EV doesn't add any real character, at most it adds fake character with fake noises and fake gear changes.

The guys that are just about clout chasing with "wow my car is so fast" will buy EVs that pretend to be sports cars. But I just don't see real driving enthusiasts making that switch

The argument: "I can't, so no one else can"...

[M5Rick]

EV's are not selling and are piling up in European ports on stack up storage frames as space is becoming a problem.
https://www.yahoo.com/tech/unsold-ch...124500003.html

[M5Rick]

In GB and on the Continent a shortage of HGV/TIR drivers are adding to the unsold EV storage nightmare as there are too few applying to drive lorries to actually move the rising amount of unsold EV's. Some of the causes are that young drivers are looking at this as a last resort in their job search and the difficult and stringent process in obtaining a licence.
https://www.eptraining.co.uk/news/ar...river-shortage

[Llarry]

I find myself in a bit of a pickle: My wife has this intense desire for an EV. We've discussed it but she appears to have made up her mind.

This is not the first time that she has disregarded comments/opinions from her husband the car guy. I've explained to her a number of times that all-wheel drive is not a panacea, and a rear-wheel drive car (with proper tires) is fine in all but the most extreme conditions.

So AWD EV it appears to be. I'm researching the Porsche Macan EV as the potential optimum solution, but the prices are . Her current ride is a high-optioned 2021 Porsche Macan GTS so we already know about the "Porsche tax."

For instance, the Macan EV's augmented reality HUD is US$2,530. I'm not aware of a BMW with a similar standalone option, but I'm confident BMWs HUD is far cheaper.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by Llarry

I find myself in a bit of a pickle: My wife has this intense desire for an EV. We've discussed it but she appears to have made up her mind.

Rent a EV first. You know that you can NEVER say "I told you so"

[Efthreeoh]

I've been preaching this forever. There is a better solution to conserve portable fuel than BEV. Batteries are the worst solution.