[Maestro]

Originally Posted by DCJAX

It's all about averages. Faster cars are more likely to get kids into trouble. That's a fact.

This is true and the point I was making is the new cars Like BMW do not give you any warning something really bad is about to happen. So the speed along with great handling is lethal combination for someone with no or little experience. At least with our fast cars they shook and made all kind of noise which let you know you probably were not safe.

Originally Posted by gos

The risk of death in an accident is 44 times higher for teens who drive to high school, versus those that ride the bus.

This is a sad fact, but kids who ride the bus these days die of complete embarrassment and social isolation... ok a poor joke but this is how kids think.

I know I was one of the few kids who drove a cool car to school.

Originally Posted by user1

Chances are your car didnt excelerate as fast as a modern BMW. Plus your old car kept you alert always reminding you the car could get out of control at any time. That probably taught you to be a better driver & kept you under control. Maybe you were the exception to the rule as a kid and were a great driver. Maybe you were just lucky not to have been in a horrible accident as a kid. No one will ever know. In any case the incidents involving bad drivers in powerful cars can be summed up with John C's earlier quoteThat pretty much sums up how these bad drivers, including many inexperienced & wild driving kids, get into trouble.

I was lucky, and I would not say I had lots of experience but realize quickly what bad things could happen.

I had an accident, which I would say was not 100% my fault, but never expected a curved road to be banked the wrong way and hitting the bend with my foot on the brake to slow down with it raining out and water crossing the road. Needless to say the car decide it wanted to go straight verse go around the curve. Slamming head on into a truck, three of us walked away, thanks to a big car with lots of steel around it and the fact both car and truck were not going fast.

Trust me, I have been in my share of Muscle cars, grant it, they didn't go 0 to 60 in 4.8, but had enough speed and power to throw you into the seat. Which I think puts the fear of God into you. I think most of these cars today do not have the "Fear of God" feeling until it is too late.

[achien]

Originally Posted by user1

Give me a road full of 87 yr olds over a road full of 16 yr olds any day of the week. Lets not fault the victim that wasnt doing anything wrong. There was only one problem on that road and it was a 16 year old in a performance auto. CA needs a graduated license system.

how? you can only drive vehicles in certain hp categories with certain licences?

[BK]

Originally Posted by user1

Give me a road full of 87 yr olds over a road full of 16 yr olds any day of the week. Lets not fault the victim that wasnt doing anything wrong. There was only one problem on that road and it was a 16 year old in a performance auto. CA needs a graduated license system.

Oh, I agree, the kid was idiot. But somewhere, there is a farmer's market that will live to see another day.

Ouch - I should be more sensitive about this because that is someone's grandpa senselessly killed. I forget I am not on Fark. In any case, I am tired of this same old argument here. We have gone through this a few times before, and any sane person here -- except for the teenage members -- agrees that most teens should not get behind the wheel of a fast car until they have a little more practice. The fact is that, on the whole, teens suck at driving. There is no substitute for experience.

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by user1

Give me a road full of 87 yr olds over a road full of 16 yr olds any day of the week. Lets not fault the victim that wasnt doing anything wrong. There was only one problem on that road and it was a 16 year old in a performance auto. CA needs a graduated license system since there is no good way to weed the good drivers from the bad & still account for lack of parenting (giving an immature kid a performance car).

If you every talk to an 87 old driver they will tell you this, they are safe driver, never get tickets and never had an accident, but will also tell you that they seen lots of accidents behind them.

It is all the rest of us getting in accidents trying to avoid them.

This is no reflection on this incident since it sound like the kids was 100% at fault, he probably would have killed anyone in his path of destruction no matter the age.

My Dad is 78 and talks about all the bad drives and I hate following behind him, I fear for him and someday we will have to take him off the road.

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by BK

The fact is that, on the whole, teens suck at driving. There is no substitute for experience.

I do not think teens suck at driving, I think driving has become so complicated that it requires lots of experience to deal with everything that could happen as well as what already happens.

I plan to send my kids to driving performance school so they can learn that driving fast can be very dangerous. Very few kids learn by telling them or showing them they must experience first hand. There are schools out there that let kids loose control of the car under controlled conditions.

[Majikthese42]

Originally Posted by e90fanatic

hehe...i agree...but my kid will be driving a 1989 volvo 240...with just abit over 100hp...haha....so he can't even go 80...barely make it to 65...lol

Ummmmm.....



In NJ, most of the 240s will have rusted away by then. They're pretty badly rusted now. The 240s leak like colanders, the carpets get soaked and the floors rust out.

The later Volvo 850 and SVC70 turbos don't rust but have 222-236HP and up.

If your 16 year old kid loses it in a speeding BMW (or Volvo) and kills an octogenarian, you lost control when the kid was about five.

[WxSquid]

Originally Posted by STE92VE

Please do not include me in your generalization. In NYS, legal limit is 70% (lets 70% of light thru) which is like not having tint at all. Since I tend not to stray outside the letter of the law, I decided not to tint. I also have affixed my front license plate to the bumper, as per the NYS motor vehicle code.

Yes, some people choose to disregard the laws of their state. Saying that everyone does, is just not accurate.

+1

Thanks, you beat me to this....

[user1]

Originally Posted by Maestro

Trust me, I have been in my share of Muscle cars, grant it, they didn't go 0 to 60 in 4.8, but had enough speed and power to throw you into the seat. Which I think puts the fear of God into you. I think most of these cars today do not have the "Fear of God" feeling until it is too late.

I couldnt agree more.

Originally Posted by achien

how? you can only drive vehicles in certain hp categories with certain licences?

Graduated licenses come in all forms. Some restrict the hours a 16 or 17 yr old can drive. Some limit the number of other teenagers you can have in the car. Reason for that one is there is less peer pressure, fewer people to show off for and fewer distractions. Some restrict the age of the other passengers. Others restrict where and when you can drive (school, work, family errands etc). I havent heard of one that limits the power of a car but its not a bad idea.

If this kid were not in a car with a 15 year old passenger he is may not to have been showing off by speeding/racing. It may have stopped this incident. Graduated licenses instituted in other areas have been proven to lower accident rates among 16 & 17 year olds.

It really doesn’t matter if it was his or his parents BMW. His parents should hide the keys if they cant raise their children right. It doesn’t matter if he was 16 or 17. He was inexperienced & shouldn’t have been driving in that manner. He isn’t an adult so its up to the parents to raise their kids right. Too many parents are self involved and don’t raise their kids nowadays. With a lack of parenting we need stricter laws to protect potential innocent victims. Graduated licenses in CA would make the roads safer.

[user1]

Originally Posted by Maestro

If you every talk to an 87 old driver they will tell you this, they are safe driver, never get tickets and never had an accident, but will also tell you that they seen lots of accidents behind them.

It is all the rest of us getting in accidents trying to avoid them.

This is no reflection on this incident since it sound like the kids was 100% at fault, he probably would have killed anyone in his path of destruction no matter the age.

My Dad is 78 and talks about all the bad drives and I hate following behind him, I fear for him and someday we will have to take him off the road.

I agree. But as a general rule, would you rather be on a road with all 87 year olds or all 16 year olds?

[Ryan(e92)]

Why do people post this shit? It was never identified as a 3 series. OMG a 16 year old kid was stupid and driving fast. Why dont we post up every drunk driving arrest involving someone with a BMW that we hear about too. And every traffic ticket and every street race we hear about involving a BMW. My point is where the fuck does it end? Yes its tragic. No we do not need to pollute this forum with it.

[BKsBimmer]

Originally Posted by Maestro

I do not think teens suck at driving, I think driving has become so complicated that it requires lots of experience to deal with everything that could happen as well as what already happens.

I plan to send my kids to driving performance school so they can learn that driving fast can be very dangerous. Very few kids learn by telling them or showing them they must experience first hand. There are schools out there that let kids loose control of the car under controlled conditions.

All due respect I think you're actually making BK's point. Yes driving can be complicated. There are more cars on the road than ever and navigating crowded roads and hazardous conditions requires experience. Kid's are inexperienced so yes, in most cases they do suck at driving.

[user1]

Originally Posted by BK

Oh, I agree, the kid was idiot. But somewhere, there is a farmer's market that will live to see another day.

Yes, that is horrible. I was actually there 30 minutes before that happened. Not to take away from that incident... but for every one of those there are 100s of 16 year olds causing fatal accidents.

Originally Posted by Ryan(e92)

Why do people post this shit? It was never identified as a 3 series. OMG a 16 year old kid was stupid and driving fast. Why dont we post up every drunk driving arrest involving someone with a BMW that we hear about too. And every traffic ticket and every street race we hear about involving a BMW. My point is where the fuck does it end? Yes its tragic. No we do not need to pollute this forum with it.

No one said it was a 3 series. Its just an interesting discussion.

Why did you bother to read past the first page? Why did you bother to post? Theres a lot of varied topics on this forum. You need to choose for yourself which ones you will read and contribute. Friendly discussions on a topic do not pollute this forum. Poeple who try to restrict whats posted and use the f-bomb pollute this forum. This isnt the first thread devoted to a BMW crash and it likely wont be the last.

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by BKsBimmer

All due respect I think you're actually making BK's point. Yes driving can be complicated. There are more cars on the road than ever and navigating crowded roads and hazardous conditions requires experience. Kid's are inexperienced so yes, in most cases they do suck at driving.

I would define suck as doing things because they are clueless and would do it even if they had experience, which I see lots of sucky drivers of all ages.

Doing it because you have no idea and have not learned does not make you a sucky driver just a poor one or inexperience.

Like I said, I was luck and did some stupid things but never did them twice.

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by slammedbimmer

here in Maryland, they have a terrible habit of stopping at green lights, or not going when the light turns green

The reason people do not go when the light turns green is because of the previous problem you talk about, people running red lights. I am one of those who wait on green, especially in multi-lane intersections I want to wait until the all opposing in all lanes stop before I go. I have seen people blow throw intersections after I got the green light.

I agree the driving test here in the US should be much hard and more time consuming. Do you know how hard it is to take someone license away once they have it. If that is the case then getting it should be just as hard.

[azbmw]

Originally Posted by Ryan(e92)

Why do people post this shit? It was never identified as a 3 series. OMG a 16 year old kid was stupid and driving fast. Why dont we post up every drunk driving arrest involving someone with a BMW that we hear about too. And every traffic ticket and every street race we hear about involving a BMW. My point is where the fuck does it end? Yes its tragic. No we do not need to pollute this forum with it.

You must be new to the forum. There has been many posts about traffic tickets and accidents. Its not new and it hasnt polluted this forum so far. What is interesting to some members is not to others. That doesnt make their topic any less important. Its BMW and car related so it belongs here just as much as the speeding ticket posts, stolen car posts or car comparison posts.

[siriusinvestor]

Well for the family of the elderly victim.

LAWSUIT TIME BABYYYY!!!!!!!

[s4iscool]

RIP for the lady...to have lived so long and get taken away like that...shame. Hope the kid gets the book thrown at him

[calvino]

parents give kids BMW's because they are safe duh...
if I had a kid & money I will also give my kid a BMW or a Volvo not a Fiat or a Kia.

is the laws I don't think most 16 year old are mature to drive.

It should be like Europe 18 to drive, plus the test should be harder so stupid people don't pass :mad:

A traffic light with a green signal means?

A. Stop
B. Go
C. caution

What does an eight-sided sign mean?

A. Yield
B. Stop
C. Wrong way

that's why there are so many idiots in the streets...

[azbmw]

Originally Posted by s4iscool

RIP for the lady...to have lived so long and get taken away like that...shame. Hope the kid gets the book thrown at him

87 year old man is dead, the late 70's wife is in critical condition. The 16 year old kid had minor scratches treated at the scene.

[DCJAX]

Originally Posted by DasBlitz

Nice reliable Honda Civic that they can easily tune and get really fast. Nice reliable Honda Civic that in most cases would show a BMW is safer. Yea, I am seeing your point. Wait.

Also, if you buy your kid a BMW. Why not send them to skid class, advanced training class etc. Get them more in tuned with their vehicle.

Your reasons can easily be debunked. Also it was not stated it was a 335i.

I can count on one hand the number of "tuned" (fast) civics I have seen. Not to mention that all you have to do is NOT buy your kid a new engine for his civic. Bingo, slow car. It's nonsense to suggest that giving a kid a Civic is just as iresponsible (not to mention you are spoiling the kid) as a BMW.

No, the reasons are valid. Buying 16 year olds nice cars if a stupid idea for many reasons.

[user1]

Originally Posted by DCJAX

I can count on one hand the number of "tuned" (fast) civics I have seen.

Most civics just have bolted on body pannels and fart can mufflers. Under the hood or behind the tires is mostly junk. Most kids cant afford the cost of real add-ons for their civics that actually make them fast. They settle for cheap stuff that makes it look riced out and sound loud but arent much faster than stock (sometimes slower with all the extra body weight).

[johnc_22]

Originally Posted by Maestro

I do not think teens suck at driving.

Really? Try insuring one. In a $40K-$50K import. Compare that to what it costs to insure yourself or your spouse.

The insurance companies have figured it out - insuring teenagers is expensive because they don't have the experience NOT to suck when driving. Not all teenage drivers suck, but statistically they do compared to other age groups.