[autoyuri]

I am very, very, very disappointed!((

[TSM330i]

I figured something was up. It's obvious they're not developing the car as it slides to the back of the grid. It's estimated that F1 cars are 2 seconds faster at the end of the season vs. the beginning due to in season development.
This sucks!

[wakedaze]

BMW. Stop trying to be Toyota by wasting R&D, development time and production money building micro-niche vehicles that NO ONE really wants. Get back to the business of building the "ultimate driving machine" and demonstrate your prowess through racing.

[CoolToolGuy]

Originally Posted by M2381

BMW is slowing losing my loyalty.

M SUVs and now this shit?

Yes they had to cut their losses, but BMW is always talking about passion and racing but simply quit when they don't do well in F1?

IF their next M cars are shit then I'm jumping to porsche

If you must - but Porsche quit factory racing at LeMans and used the money to develop the Cayenne (an SUV, in case you weren't aware), and now the new four-door Panamera. I don't really see a difference. . .

Have Fun,
Rick

[E90SLAM]

Originally Posted by CoolToolGuy

If you must - but Porsche quit factory racing at LeMans and used the money to develop the Cayenne (an SUV, in case you weren't aware), and now the new four-door Panamera. I don't really see a difference. . .

Have Fun,
Rick

and then the Porsche Company will be bought by VW...or some Chinese company as I heard from somewhere couple weeks ago!!!

[K1M2]

Hey BMW,
The Hell with F1, DTM baby DTM!
Let's kick some Merc. and VW (AUDI) Arse in DTM.
K1M2
1970 1602, M2 (Track).
1974 2002Tii (Show)
1989 325ix (Winter)
1991 325ic (Summer)
2008 128i (Daily)

[Montoya]

Originally Posted by blue2fire

Porshuh the car company is to become a subsidiary of VW but Porshuh the holding company retains majority ownership of VW itself.

This deal is only to get rid of the massive tab they'd run up trying to acquire 75% of VW (the percent at which German law says that you can declare it a subsidiary).

When your debt exceeds your assets that defines bankruptcy. At this point the debt is so huge they have to merge with VW to viable. Without VW's cash they would be looking at a restructure.

EDIT: Today's WSJ: Porsche takes a 7.1 Billion Dollar hit on VW option sales. "Porsche now is in talks to be effectively taken over by VW"

[E90SLAM]

Originally Posted by K1M2

Hey BMW,
The Hell with F1, DTM baby DTM!
Let's kick some Merc. and VW (AUDI) Arse in DTM.
K1M2
1970 1602, M2 (Track).
1974 2002Tii (Show)
1989 325ix (Winter)
1991 325ic (Summer)
2008 128i (Daily)

I still don't see how BMW will be the leading brand in motorsport or any passion in it to just give up the motorsport categories that they are unable to excel and win.

And Merc engine just lead Lewis Hamilton to WDC last year. and 6/9 races this year in Brawn GP. MB engine whopped BMW this season. Even a Renault powered RBR too!

[K1M2]

"I still don't see how BMW will be the leading brand in motorsport or any passion in it to just give up the motorsport categories that they are unable to excel and win."

%100 with you on that one.

"And Merc. engine just lead Lewis Hamilton to WDC last year. and 6/9 races this year in Brawn GP. MB engine whopped BMW this season. Even a Renault powered RBR too! "

McLaren finally being able to put the power down by figuring out the nose Aerodynamics on Hamilton’s car has nothing to do with their Motor. This whole problem with Ferrari, BMW Sauber and McLaren Mercedes it's been the body Aerodynamics problem, not a power issue. They just can’t put the power down.

K1M2
1970 1602, M2 (Track).
1974 2002Tii (Show)
1989 325ix (Winter)
1991 325ic (Summer)
2008 128i (Daily)

[E90SLAM]

Originally Posted by K1M2

"I still don't see how BMW will be the leading brand in motorsport or any passion in it to just give up the motorsport categories that they are unable to excel and win."

%100 with you on that one.

"And Merc. engine just lead Lewis Hamilton to WDC last year. and 6/9 races this year in Brawn GP. MB engine whopped BMW this season. Even a Renault powered RBR too! "

McLaren finally being able to put the power down by figuring out the nose Aerodynamics on Hamilton’s car has nothing to do with their Motor. This whole problem with Ferrari, BMW Sauber and McLaren Mercedes it's been the body Aerodynamics problem, not a power issue. They just can’t put the power down.

I agree with you on that one, Ferrari and MB Formula 1 engines now are so reliable (except the batch last year with a cam-shaft not up to task with ferrari)....and the output of all engines are similar....
its all down to the entire package the car can deliver, the chassis, aero parts, driver, fuel loads, tyre useage and management....etc....

I think the problem with them now its the car itself, the chassis might not be refined to suit the dramatic loss of downforce at the rear and in contrast, too much downforce in the front, an unbalanced car means slow in F1....
a well designed chassis and aero parts (Brawn and Red Bull) can compensate these issues, however, they don't have the weight of KERS....

[beemah]

Fernando Alonso

Thats pretty much when i stopped buying BMWs or paying attention to the BMW team

The car might be great, but you have to get a driver to make it a winner

and you dont feel like buying a car that a winner does not drive

[gshb]

Originally Posted by beemah

Fernando Alonso

Thats pretty much when i stopped buying BMWs or paying attention to the BMW team

The car might be great, but you have to get a driver to make it a winner

and you dont feel like buying a car that a winner does not drive

+1. writing has been on the wall for a while now. i laugh when people hate on toyota for not winning races in F1 and for not building sport cars. not thats its not true, but that BMW is just the same. actually, with this news they are worse. BMW are quitters. but thats ok, the target demographic doesnt care about ultimate driving anyway. those who do are either stuck in the past or driving the real deal from another brand.

[josephr25]

Originally Posted by gshb

+1. writing has been on the wall for a while now. i laugh when people hate on toyota for not winning races in F1 and for not building sport cars. not thats its not true, but that BMW is just the same. actually, with this news they are worse. BMW are quitters. but thats ok, the target demographic doesnt care about ultimate driving anyway. those who do are either stuck in the past or driving the real deal from another brand.

BMW also took the easy way in acquiring an experienced team as opposed to Toyota.

I could care less about BMW in F1. F1 is hype nowadays. I hope their involvement in the ALMS will bring us better road cars.

[FStop7]

Originally Posted by K1M2

Hey BMW,
The Hell with F1, DTM baby DTM!
Let's kick some Merc. and VW (AUDI) Arse in DTM.
K1M2
1970 1602, M2 (Track).
1974 2002Tii (Show)
1989 325ix (Winter)
1991 325ic (Summer)
2008 128i (Daily)

BMW hasn't raced in DTM in years.

[K1M2]

Originally Posted by FStop7

BMW hasn't raced in DTM in years.

Exactly my point, they need to get back in it.


K1M2
1970 1602, M2 (Track).
1974 2002Tii (Show)
1989 325ix (Winter)
1991 325ic (Summer)
2008 128i (Daily)

[KonigsTiger]

Makes sense to me, they suck ass!!!!!!

[1BMW4fun]

Originally Posted by K1M2

Exactly my point, they need to get back in it.


K1M2
1970 1602, M2 (Track).
1974 2002Tii (Show)
1989 325ix (Winter)
1991 325ic (Summer)
2008 128i (Daily)

Its like saying "I can't win racing a motor bike, so I got to get back to racing bicycle"

[teagueAMX]

It's funny watching that vid and they talk about their heritage of history of racing, and passion - sounds like a bunch of marketing hype now.

In a lot of ways, BMW's management style reminds me of General Motors Corp years ago. For a while they poured everything into factory sponsorship of racing - made a big splash - it's a our passion, our love. After a couple of years they were getting they asses kicked pretty bad and didn't manage to capitalize the marketing $'s. So, they picked up their toys went home.

In one since with the world economy in the tank, it shouldn't be a big surprise. Blowing how many millions every year with little to show for it. Some of their "M" marketing decisions sound a lot like GM board room marketing hype and politics. Instead of the "M" really meaning something, it a plaything to make a buck. Makes one question if racing and performance is really in BMW's blood or if it's just a sideline to sell cars.

Ferrari - F1 is no 1, selling cars to consumers is only a sideline to pay for F1.

[CoolToolGuy]

Originally Posted by teagueAMX

Makes one question if racing and performance is really in BMW's blood or if it's just a sideline to sell cars.

Ferrari - F1 is no 1, selling cars to consumers is only a sideline to pay for F1.

IMHO, BMW is in business to sell vehicles (not to race), and they think that racing improves the breed - YMMV.

Just like for individuals, a recession may require companies to make some cutbacks - and the circus that is F1 would probably be among my first choices. If BMW stayed in, they would have to commit (via the Concorde Agreement) to stay in until 2012. I think their money is best spent elsewhere. Again, YMMV.

Porsche quit LeMans to deveiop the Cayenne & Panamera and that, to me, is a form of racing that is closer to the development of street cars than F1. At least BMW has not (yet) pulled out of ALMS and other such series.

But if you think arguing with Bernie and dealing with Max's eccentricities are more important than developing technologies for the future, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. In that case, YMDV.

Have Fun,
Rick

[3s-a-charm]

There's going to be a big sale on all the PETRONAS stuff at the local dealerships soon...

[FStop7]

BMW is becoming the German version of Honda. Both these companies have very deep motorsport traditions on both 2 and 4 wheels, which they're now backing away from. It's a mistake.

[Formel1]

Too big...too fast...loosing their roots...it's about the car and trackability....then about car sales...that being said...I still smile when I drive my 135i...