[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by 23109VC

Teslas are for people who want to drive their phone….

They are hideous, poorly made, ugly golf carts that go like crazy from a dig.

When Porsche, BMW, and Audi are *fully* into the EV market, Tesla is fucked.

And when would that be...?
I'm a numbers oriented person so here are the stats

Currently best Audi can offer is an SUV with:

Audi e-tron suv:

$66k price
220 miles of range
0-60 5.5s
Top speed 124mph
5800 lbs weight

When you can get a Model Y Perf for

$56k price
303 miles of range
0-60 in 3.5 s
Top speed 155mph
4400 lbs weight..

if you go to sedans then closest is probably BMW with the i4 M50 (whenever that actually ends being released)

i4 M50:

$67k price
245 miles of range
0-60 in 3.9s
Top speed 140mph
5048 lbs

Model 3 Perf:

$57k price
315 miles of range
0-60 3.1s
Top speed 162mph
4250 lbs

You can argue about the looks and quality, from which quality is the most objective of the two... but I tried Tesla's seats and they are the most comfortable seats I sat on any car ever... of course they don't offer many options and things like bucket seats, etc and that's a fair point...
but by any performance/price figures there is absolutely no competition....

By German car standards a new model iteration takes 6-7 years... so there won't be any significant redesign/improvements for another 6 years or so

I do really love BMW's since my dad had a E21 when I was 3yrs old... but the industry as a whole has been taken by storm by Tesla...

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

And when would that be...?
I'm a numbers oriented person so here are the stats

Currently best Audi can offer is an SUV with:

Audi e-tron suv:

$66k price
220 miles of range
0-60 5.5s
Top speed 124mph
5800 lbs weight

When you can get a Model Y Perf for

$56k price
303 miles of range
0-60 in 3.5 s
Top speed 155mph
4400 lbs weight..

if you go to sedans then closest is probably BMW with the i4 M50 (whenever that actually ends being released)

i4 M50:

$67k price
245 miles of range
0-60 in 3.9s
Top speed 140mph
5048 lbs

Model 3 Perf:

$57k price
315 miles of range
0-60 3.1s
Top speed 162mph
4250 lbs

You can argue about the looks and quality, from which quality is the most objective of the two... but I tried Tesla's seats and they are the most comfortable seats I sat on any car ever... of course they don't offer many options and things like bucket seats, etc and that's a fair point...
but by any performance/price figures there is absolutely no competition....

By German car standards a new model iteration takes 6-7 years... so there won't be any significant redesign/improvements for another 6 years or so

I do really love BMW's since my dad had a E21 when I was 3yrs old... but the industry as a whole has been taken by storm by Tesla...

Fact of the matter is, tesla is SO FAR ahead of everyone in the EV world that by the time the others catch up, tesla has sprinted even further away.

People can knock the build quality of the car when in fact, there are other car makers that has been making cars for decades with inadequate build quality as well. And tesla is still a "new" car maker.

Until a car maker can make what tesla did with their plaid, at that price point, then tesla has NO comp.

But the taycan turbo s isn't in the same league and the rimac costs 2+ million dollars.

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

Fact of the matter is, tesla is SO FAR ahead of everyone in the EV world that by the time the others catch up, tesla has sprinted even further away.

People can knock the build quality of the car when in fact, there are other car makers that has been making cars for decades with inadequate build quality as well. And tesla is still a "new" car maker.

Until a car maker can make what tesla did with their plaid, at that price point, then tesla has NO comp.

But the taycan turbo s isn't in the same league and the rimac costs 2+ million dollars.

finally some objective common sense

[DAlby18]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

Fact of the matter is, tesla is SO FAR ahead of everyone in the EV world that by the time the others catch up, tesla has sprinted even further away.

People can knock the build quality of the car when in fact, there are other car makers that has been making cars for decades with inadequate build quality as well. And tesla is still a "new" car maker.

Until a car maker can make what tesla did with their plaid, at that price point, then tesla has NO comp.

But the taycan turbo s isn't in the same league and the rimac costs 2+ million dollars.

Agree completely. They need some time to grow properly. After all a good chunk of their product is coming out of a refurbished plant that isn't quite equipped to put out a quality product; however, they have just the same amount of time to resolve this issue if not more compared to the time it will take other manufactures to catch up to their position when it comes to performance, efficiency, and battery tech.

I just don't like how the auto industry is progressing. Personally I feel there is too much government "bullying" when it comes to the auto market. There are so many cases made that EV's are not more environmentally friendly or EV's are only environmentally friendly after some excessive mileage. Personally I don't know what is actually right and kind of tired of people telling me EV's are better because of source: "Trust me bro". I feel the approach should have been let the EV market evolve naturally and see where it takes us. We have so little data and they are forcing it down peoples throats. Kind of how I feel about climate change. We only have so much data for a planet that is "billions" of years old but we are throwing every penny at the cause and not thinking about the "cause and effect" of this action. Hell here in Canada they can tell what the weather is going to be 30 min from now but your going to tell me we are all doomed.

Another problem is infrastructure. A lot of homes around here only have 100 amp service. Tesla wall charger charges at 48 amps. If you have two cars charging at the same time then you can barely make a coffee. This EV market is not something that can happen over the next 8 years. This is going to take decades; however, the manufactures are making it seem like they are stopping on ICE development. Maybe its just smoke and mirrors to quite down the environmentalist group.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by DAlby18

Agree completely. They need some time to grow properly. After all a good chunk of their product is coming out of a refurbished plant that isn't quite equipped to put out a quality product; however, they have just the same amount of time to resolve this issue if not more compared to the time it will take other manufactures to catch up to their position when it comes to performance, efficiency, and battery tech.

I just don't like how the auto industry is progressing. Personally I feel there is too much government "bullying" when it comes to the auto market. There are so many cases made that EV's are not more environmentally friendly or EV's are only environmentally friendly after some excessive mileage. Personally I don't know what is actually right and kind of tired of people telling me EV's are better because of source: "Trust me bro". I feel the approach should have been let the EV market evolve naturally and see where it takes us. We have so little data and they are forcing it down peoples throats. Kind of how I feel about climate change. We only have so much data for a planet that is "billions" of years old but we are throwing every penny at the cause and not thinking about the "cause and effect" of this action. Hell here in Canada they can tell what the weather is going to be 30 min from now but your going to tell me we are all doomed.

Another problem is infrastructure. A lot of homes around here only have 100 amp service. Tesla wall charger charges at 48 amps. If you have two cars charging at the same time then you can barely make a coffee. This EV market is not something that can happen over the next 8 years. This is going to take decades; however, the manufactures are making it seem like they are stopping on ICE development. Maybe its just smoke and mirrors to quite down the environmentalist group.

I think by the time 2035 arrives, a lot of the issues will be sorted out. The only thing we'll have to see is how people will adapt. Used markets will skyrocket (kinda like now but moreso) and you will see less and less people buying new cars.

The only way to correct this is if/when battery technology improves, that way people can't use the excuse, "well it's going to take an hour to charge to 80% on a level 2".

Tesla's supercharging system (V3) can give you like 70 miles or range in 5 minutes. So it's getting there. But it will improve dramatically i think in the next 3-5 years.

The other issue is cost to purchase. Tesla will supposedly have a 25k EV. Which should introduce the cost effective way of owning an EV.

Tesla has been paving the way for so many years now. Everyone is definitely learning from them but spinning it their way so it doesn't look like they're mimicking what they're doing.

I do agree about being bullied into going EV. Some countries have already backed out of their claimed "promise" to go to EV. Because right now, to them, it's actually counterproductive.

And i don't want to turn this into a political debate but once the man is out of office, you're going to see a lot "changes". And by changes, i mean like, "hey we never said we agreed to that" type of talk.

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

I think by the time 2035 arrives, a lot of the issues will be sorted out. The only thing we'll have to see is how people will adapt. Used markets will skyrocket (kinda like now but moreso) and you will see less and less people buying new cars.

The only way to correct this is if/when battery technology improves, that way people can't use the excuse, "well it's going to take an hour to charge to 80% on a level 2".

Tesla's supercharging system (V3) can give you like 70 miles or range in 5 minutes. So it's getting there. But it will improve dramatically i think in the next 3-5 years.

The other issue is cost to purchase. Tesla will supposedly have a 25k EV. Which should introduce the cost effective way of owning an EV.

Tesla has been paving the way for so many years now. Everyone is definitely learning from them but spinning it their way so it doesn't look like they're mimicking what they're doing.

I do agree about being bullied into going EV. Some countries have already backed out of their claimed "promise" to go to EV. Because right now, to them, it's actually counterproductive.

And i don't want to turn this into a political debate but once the man is out of office, you're going to see a lot "changes". And by changes, i mean like, "hey we never said we agreed to that" type of talk.

yeah... politics is a whole push to the left, push to the right... and hopefully we will end up somewhere in the middle

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

I think by the time 2035 arrives, a lot of the issues will be sorted out. The only thing we'll have to see is how people will adapt. Used markets will skyrocket (kinda like now but moreso) and you will see less and less people buying new cars

I had a Model 3 on order in early April but there was no delivery by end of April when I needed a car, so I bought a G20 330i instead.

I think currently BEV/PHEV/ICE all are close in terms of owner's cost and emission(e.g. 100kg upfront emission per 1kWh) esp. when BEV/PHEV state + fed incentives are taken into account.

As of BEV in general, my worry is that the current tech still seems a bit immature in terms of charge time and energy density, so EV owners have to hide slow charge time, plus pull the extra weight around in every mile traveled.

And the huge battery packs reaching EOL may create recycling issue(with its own emission) that has yet to be solved.

In addition, the biggest hurdle of widespread EV adaptation is electricity infrastructure. With the current number of miles traveled in the US, it will require US aggregate electricity production to be increased by 1/3 to 1/2, and that will take many decades(and beyond 2035) to build up. Plus there are many homes with 100-150A, and many apartment carports/rural areas with no L2 electric outlets.

In that regard, my thinking is that ultra fuel efficient ICE still has its place, e.g. some G20 330i owners report 48-50+mpg@60-70mpg in eco mode.

Further ICE innovation(e.g. mild hybrid) will be needed while EV techs and infrastructures catch up in the next few decades.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by dilanz03

I wish we had more rent services for such electric cars like Tesla... so before making any rush, anyone could make a simple test drive.

TURO man.

The service has tons of teslas. My friend put their teslas up for rent there too.

And when i get my tesla in spring i'll be doing the same. TURO will essentially pay for my lease payment, thus having a free car basically.

[NightWriter]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

TURO man.

I don't know if they've improved in this regard, but I would beware of just renting out my car to randos...

https://www.reddit.com/r/turo/commen...nce_nightmare/

https://jalopnik.com/here-s-what-hap...r-a-1792048817

https://themodernmindfulmom.com/bad-...erience/?amp=1

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by NightWriter

I don't know if they've improved in this regard, but I would beware of just renting out my car to randos...

https://www.reddit.com/r/turo/commen...nce_nightmare/

https://jalopnik.com/here-s-what-hap...r-a-1792048817

https://themodernmindfulmom.com/bad-...erience/?amp=1

Yeah that's not really common, and you don't just rent it to anyone that just downloads the app lol. My friend has a TURO fleet that has a C8 in it and hasn't had any issues like that. Only issue he had was that he caught the renter speeding. Which shows up in his app (not the TURO app).

[Forzanerazzurri]

[Itson451]

I would rather hang myself than drive a lifeless appliance like a Tesla. The same nerds who buy a new iPhone every year are the same people who buy Teslas. Ice till I die!

[BGM-M3COMP]

So it looks like it all depends on the launch. You let the M3P work it's magic off the line then you're toast.

ICE cars do have the advantage on top end though. But from 0-100mph, don't even try a tesla. And if you encounter a plaid, just turn the other way and pretend you didn't see it. Because it'll cook anything in sight lol

[Forzanerazzurri]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

So it looks like it all depends on the launch. You let the M3P work it's magic off the line then you're toast.

ICE cars do have the advantage on top end though. But from 0-100mph, don't even try a tesla. And if you encounter a plaid, just turn the other way and pretend you didn't see it. Because it'll cook anything in sight lol

Or you can just buy the M3 xdrive and smoke it off the line too.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri

Or you can just buy the M3 xdrive and smoke it off the line too.

Once this lease is over if i come back to another M3 i will get the x-drive. I really want the revisions anyway.

But i still want a tesla too lol. Best bang for buck in an EV right now.

M3P will do repeated 3.1 0-60 all day. ICE cars, even AWD needs optimal conditions to do consistent fast 0-60 times.

EV is catching up!!!

[MTM3]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

Once this lease is over if i come back to another M3 i will get the x-drive. I really want the revisions anyway.

But i still want a tesla too lol. Best bang for buck in an EV right now.

M3P will do repeated 3.1 0-60 all day. ICE cars, even AWD needs optimal conditions to do consistent fast 0-60 times.

EV is catching up!!!

I’m still trying to figure WTF you’re doing on this forum being such a Tesla pole smoker fanboy. Every thread FFS

[BGM-M3COMP]

I have an M3 brah. Relax. This thread SAYS TESLA IN THE TITLE.

FFS

[Forzanerazzurri]

I couldn't imagine buying a Tesla. I'd be embarrassed to drive that car.

[m3_08]

Originally Posted by dilanz03

I wish we had more rent services for such electric cars like Tesla... so before making any rush, anyone could make a simple test drive.

6 month ago I went to tesla.com and selected option to test drive two models. Came there, they enabled cars for us (no human interaction) and we drove for 30-40 min x and y models.

Two weeks ago we got model Y performance version and we like it.
It's our Costcomobile and dogmobile. Perfect.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Nice!!!

Elon has good stuff coming soon.

[SickGTR]

Originally Posted by Itson451

I would rather hang myself than drive a lifeless appliance like a Tesla. The same nerds who buy a new iPhone every year are the same people who buy Teslas. Ice till I die!

Don't let anyone stop you. 😵. Lol Merry Christmas

[MTM3]

Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri

I couldn't imagine buying a Tesla. I'd be embarrassed to drive that car.

Agree 100%. It’s a horrible image statement. I will buy an electric car if I have to but will never join Tesla driver ranks.