[thebmw]

Originally Posted by jpy1980

Ha! Maybe Dukec wants to be like Steve Jobs when people complained about the iphone 4 antenna's design being blocked by your hand and he said, "JUST AVOID HOLDING IT THAT WAY"

https://techcrunch.com/2010/06/24/ip...antenna-issue/

[LOW4LYF]

Originally Posted by thebmw

You are telling us to be sheep because you're saying that we shouldn't be posting anything bad about BMW or Dukec. I'm not a big fan of Apple either so there's one thing that we do share in common, but we definitely disagree about the design of this car. As far as Dukec is concerned, at this point, I think it is a matter of fact that he is a narcissistic, self centered, self absorbed, insulting, denigrating POS who hates certain groups of people. How can anyone support him by buying a car he designed? It is sickening to me.

On a lighter note, I thought you'd like this. Just posted in LOL section:

https://www.6post.com/forums/showpos...ostcount=13290

You are right and I'm wrong, how about that?

Drive safe and enjoy the car you like and I will do the same with my G8x.
And if I have the desire to dream about good old made in Germany, I will take my E34 M5 for a spin

[SteveinArizona]

Originally Posted by LOW4LYF

You are right and I'm wrong, how about that?

Drive safe and enjoy the car you like and I will do the same with my G8x.
And if I have the desire to dream about good old made in Germany, I will take my E34 M5 for a spin

Some people will like the new cars; some will not. some will buy them; some will not. Either way this is a forum so comments in both directions are appropriate but lets not attack each other.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by LOW4LYF

It's like complaining about Windows 7 vs. Windows 10, we all got use to it, some people switched to Apple.

To continue with the Windows metaphor, interestingly you skipped directly from 7 to 10, and left out the very controversial Windows 8 with the new awful start menu that a large majority of window users hated and constantly complained about. Many people stayed with Windows 7 because of this rather than upgrading to the new software. Windows 8 was critically panned by reviewers and users alike.

In 2013, Frank X. Shaw, a Microsoft corporate vice president, said that while many of the negative reviews were extreme, it was a "good thing" that Microsoft was "listening to feedback and improving a product."
...The American Customer Satisfaction Index (ACSI) reported a decline in Microsoft's customer satisfaction, the lowest it has been since Windows Vista.

In Windows 10, they actually reverted to a Windows 7 style of desktop and start menu, with a more traditional layout versus the controversial and new style Windows 8 layout due to the large amount of customer complaints because people could in fact, not get use to the design. Windows 8 has since not been looked at very fondly in history, and likely never will.

[LOW4LYF]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

To continue with the Windows metaphor, interestingly you skipped directly from 7 to 10, and left out the very controversial Windows 8 with the new awful start menu that a large majority of window users hated and constantly complained about. Many people stayed with Windows 7 because of this rather than upgrading to the new software. Windows 8 was critically panned by reviewers and users alike.

In Windows 10, they actually reverted to a Windows 7 style of desktop and start menu, with a more traditional layout versus the controversial and new style Windows 8 layout due to the large amount of customer complaints because people could in fact, not get use to the design. Windows 8 has since not been looked at very fondly in history, and likely never will.

Also for you, enjoy the car you like and drive safe!

I will not fight with you over a stupid frontend.

Fun fact: Most of my non car friends don't like my 3 E38, for me one of the most beautiful BMW's.

Happy Friday!

[///Mcarfan]

Originally Posted by LOW4LYF

That's your opinion and I don't care!

I'm not getting mad at anyone about a car, it's just a car for me.

I'm not buying my car to impress anyone, would be super boring if we all had the same car in the driveway.

Nothing to do being a sheep but I won't tell everyone how much I dislike Apple. I just don't buy their products but wouldn't trash the company or their employees at all.

Oh you so do care. Your actions and words prove you do.

[OG///M]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

To continue with the Windows metaphor, interestingly you skipped directly from 7 to 10, and left out the very controversial Windows 8 with the new awful start menu that a large majority of window users hated and constantly complained about. Many people stayed with Windows 7 because of this rather than upgrading to the new software. Windows 8 was critically panned by reviewers and users alike.

In Windows 10, they actually reverted to a Windows 7 style of desktop and start menu, with a more traditional layout versus the controversial and new style Windows 8 layout due to the large amount of customer complaints because people could in fact, not get use to the design. Windows 8 has since not been looked at very fondly in history, and likely never will.

Well said! Now we have another example to use.
The G8x and G2x is BMW's Windows 8 and 8.1

Looking at the pricing and ordering forum, you can clearly see a difference in enthusiasm. Not many waiting lists, cars already available on lot and with discounts. Comparing with when the F8x came out, talk about a stark difference.

What I'd like to know is how many of the G8x buyers are non lease buyers that plan to keep the car for a long time.

[jpy1980]

Originally Posted by OG///M

Well said! Now we have another example to use.
The G8x and G2x is BMW's Windows 8 and 8.1

Looking at the pricing and ordering forum, you can clearly see a difference in enthusiasm. Not many waiting lists, cars already available on lot and with discounts. Comparing with when the F8x came out, talk about a stark difference.

What I'd like to know is how many of the G8x buyers are non lease buyers that plan to keep the car for a long time.

Bah yall are making me miss Windows XP...which would be equivalent to the e46 m3??? haha Or would the e46 be Win2000? hrm....Now I miss college....napster...

[thebmw]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

To continue with the Windows metaphor, interestingly you skipped directly from 7 to 10, and left out the very controversial Windows 8 with the new awful start menu that a large majority of window users hated and constantly complained about. Many people stayed with Windows 7 because of this rather than upgrading to the new software. Windows 8 was critically panned by reviewers and users alike.

In Windows 10, they actually reverted to a Windows 7 style of desktop and start menu, with a more traditional layout versus the controversial and new style Windows 8 layout due to the large amount of customer complaints because people could in fact, not get use to the design. Windows 8 has since not been looked at very fondly in history, and likely never will.

Great post and analogy. Also, very important to point out that that no point did Microsoft shame, criticize, insult, and make derogatory comments abouy certain groups of people. In addition, Microsoft is known to have a much more diverse and inclusive environment which is in stark contrast to the current culture at BMW which has very publicly gotten rid of many of their minorities and hired a bigoted designer.

But I guess that doesn't matter to some people.

[Kiefermeister]

To continue to beat the dead horse with the metaphors, why not give Mac OS a try as in the RS5? lol. Seem like all the g80 guys can't wait for AWD blah blah. But there's actually a solid choice, albeit a bit boring like the macs.

[SW19]

Does anyone know which BMW designer is designing the G87 M2?

[thebmw]

Originally Posted by Kiefermeister

To continue to beat the dead horse with the metaphors, why not give Mac OS a try as in the RS5? lol. Seem like all the g80 guys can't wait for AWD blah blah. But there's actually a solid choice, albeit a bit boring like the macs.

The new Audi etron GT. Amazing looking car, especially considering it's electric. Why would anyone buy the i4 over the etron GT? Bonus, as far as I know, Audi has not insulted their customers!

[Artemis]

A couple of thoughts on this subject:

Originally Posted by Artemis

Sometimes an 'upgrade' can be perceived as a 'downgrade', especially when a manufacturer tinkered in a way you personally dislike, with aspects that matter to you, despite improvements of several other aspects.

Most people usually like their comfort zones, points of reference, familiar quirks ('iconic' aspects). It's about connection. Hence the preference for incremental 'upgrade' changes, rather than for radical 'upgrade' changes (except if the existing iteration was conceptually not OK and definitely required a change for the better: an overhaul or redesign).

M3 (nowadays M3/M4) is the flagship of BMW M, the pet of the M class, the pars pro toto. Needless to say that the all-new G80 M3 / G82 M4 got, and keeps getting, polarizing reactions. BMW seems to be well-aware of that. BMW M must have known that some of its latest choices risked to stir emotions amongst its fanbase, but likely thought that those would cool down as time goes by.

Admittedly, my first reaction to the new M3/M4 was a big sigh. But that's perfectly normal: it's a new generation of the car, not an LCI (Life Cycle Impulse version). However, what's less normal is the fact that, as time goes by, also my second, third, fourth, fifth, etc. reaction was a big sigh. And then, in my book, there's a problem: my current mindset is that I cannot see myself buying that car if, for some reason, I'd consider replacing my M2C (quod non).

Originally Posted by Artemis

Food: there are dishes you (instantly) like and dishes you (instantly) dislike, no matter how hard the kitchen did its best and no matter how much the restaurant keeps repeating how great the dishes are and that "you will start to like it" and that "it's better when it's right in front of you and when you taste it".

Personally I don't like the G80 M3 / G82 M4 dish. Can't see myself ordering it. At best, full black to obscure a little some questionable design choices. But still: too big, too bloated and design-wise too polarizing for my taste. Trying too hard to change for the sake of change, as if it's like an e-mail written in capital letters only (those get me a cringey feeling and "chill, brother/sister" thoughts).

Forcing customers out of their familiar comfort zone: remember Microsoft radically redesigning its Windows user interface with Windows 8 (including the 'sacrilege' of deleting the iconic 'start menu') or Porsche going 4-cyl only with lawnmower sounds on its 718 Cayman: many dissatisfied/disgruntled existing and potential customers + fixing this with a later iteration. Sometimes too much is too much.

And regarding design: car manufacturers should never forget 'the family factor': show pictures to your significant other or kids and ask for their opinion to test the waters. I also did that with the G80 M3 / G82 M4 and the response was outright negative. Quite a difference compared to their reaction to pictures of an F87 M2 or F87 M2 Competition.

Originally Posted by Artemis

Remember the 996 headlights controversy:

• 993: 'bug-eye' headlights design - a design icon of the 911 model;
• 996: 'fried egg' / 'teardrop' Boxster headlights design - "done with the old - let's change !";
• 997: 'bug-eye' headlights design reintroduced.

Also see the 996 resale prices compared to other 911.

Originally Posted by Artemis

Several months ago I posted (in a later deleted thread about the new M3/M4 grilles) this video of former Coca-Cola boss Donald R. Keough announcing in Spring 1985 the re-introduction of "Classic Coke" after a very bad reception of "New Coke":

"These people [criticizing the "New Coke" introduction] and thousands like them have gone public with their love affair for Coca-Cola [...] So what does all of this really means ? It only means what we say: that our boss is the consumer. Some critics will say «Coca-Cola has made a marketing mistake» and some cynics say that we planned the whole thing. The truth is: we're not that dumb and we're not that smart."

Let's avoid that also this thread spirals out of control. Refrain from scapegoating. Below are a couple of quotes of BMW designers made in Summer 2019 about the new grilles design language:

BMW Provoked Global Reaction To Oversize Grille On Purpose
Michael Taylor - Forbes - Jun 28, 2019,07:36am EDT - here
German premium brand BMW knew it the grille on its upgraded 7 Series this year would draw a massive reaction. And it did.
It is the grille that gave birth to a thousand memes and it continues to be pilloried in social media. Worse, it took the focus off the upgrades to the flagship limousine and then found its way onto the gigantic X7 SUV as well.
The image of BMW as a design leader took off in the 1970s with the 3.0-liter CS and the 2002, but BMW's embattled design chief Adrian van Hooydonk admitted he had steeled himself for a backlash to the work his team had done to the 7 Series.
“The briefing we got was to make sure people understood the difference (between the 7 and the 5) and notice it," the Dutch designer explained.
"We are not a start up. We are not looking for 100,000 new customers, but we have to bring two million with us every year.
“When we launched the car (the pre-facelift 7 Series) it was quite smaller. The feedback we got on that was that people couldn’t see enough difference to the predecessor.
“On the 7 I understand that people can be shocked. I notice the criticism. I think in a way it’s inevitable. My objective is to do something that everybody likes but it’s not always possible.”
van Hooydonk admitted he had been hurt by the criticism of the grille, which took the original kidney concept of BMW and turned it more into a set of lungs. From a racehorse.
He still argues, though, that the much-criticized grille was more at home on the gigantic X7, where the sheer size of the 5.2-meter SUV gave it a more natural home.
“It’s more a 7 Series discussion than anything else and the backlash is more or less the same as we expected,” he said.
“The X7 was launched at the same time and that’s why it’s thrown into that discussion but the X7 grill is proportional to the size of the vehicle.
“All the cars in that segment are typically quite big.”
That grille became a BMW fan lightning rod for what is perceived as a loss of grace and athleticism and design courage at the Bavarian brand, with the mainstay 3 and 5 Series models creeping forward incrementally, rather than pushing design forward.
In his defence, van Hooydonk suggested the car's awkward note was largely struck because of different customer priorities around the world, with the strongest criticisms coming from Europe.
“The 7 has always been the hardest to bring the expectations of the entire world into one shape. The customers are very, very different in China, the US, the Middle East and in Europe,” he explained.
“In Europe, people don’t want to get noticed. They don’t like being asked what they paid for a car and they like things in black, like a stealth mode. They want the grille in black because they don't want people to notice it.
“The rest of the world is the opposite. We tried to give the Europeans what they want as well but the strongest market for the 7 is not Europe.”
The numbers back that up. Its strongest markets are the US and China, with Europe a distant third.
Welcome relief may be on its way, though. van Hooydonk insisted the world's customer tastes were converging, rather than pulling apart, and that the painfully obvious grille of the current 7 Series might not be needed on the next generation.
“For the next generation 7 our job will become slightly easier. It’s usually only in the 7 that these tastes are diverging so much but the customer profiles will be less different in five or 10 years. People’s tastes are converging.”
There's another upside for the most criticized design chief on any of the European premium carmakers. The BMW is selling more current 7 Series models than it did of the pre-facelifted versions.
Another point of defence from van Hooydonk is his insistence that the near future will be more about interior designs than exteriors. [...]

On a final note: paging BMW M execs out there: consider offering the option of grilles painted in body color until release of the G80/G82 LCI (the sensor could be a problem, though). Simple and cost-efficient measure for the time being.

[AlexFL]

This is about BMW’s newest designs such as iX...

[IllSic_Design]

tldr?

[SteveinArizona]

My gawd. He doesn't think he is designing cars. Unfortunately, I think he is right.

[Artemis]

Source: here (01:41).

[Tacoma]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Source: here (01:41).

Attachment 2560724

I don't think anyone is contesting the kidney being biggest differentiator. The issue is the grotesque size of the kidney. Clearly he still hasn't taken the first step yet, which is admitting the problem.

[Artemis]

The 17:01 - 20:38 section: savage.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by Artemis

The 17:01 - 20:38 section: savage.

I and many others made similar faces when one showed up at Cars and Coffee.

[Sassicaia]

He nailed it on the looks. "Grotesquely ugly", and who would spend big dollars on a performance car that doesnt look great.? The purpose of high performance cars is to illicit emotion, and aesthetics plays a major part in that.

The more i see it the more things I dont like about it. Look at the monkey anus on that back of it!? It sticks out like its about to take a giant crap.

[XutvJet]

All I see with the M4 is the ugly love child of a current gen Mustang and last gen Accord coupe. There's nothing BMW about it in the looks department. If it didn't have BMW badges, I would have assumed it was some Nissan product.