[EdM5]

Originally Posted by StatenEye

Max himself after being claimed by Belgian media, i mean what else can i say.

True. I gave up on this discussion a while ago. But once more:

Max speaks (pronunciation is Dutch definitely not Flemmish), acts (directly) and behaves (cocky) like a typical Dutch guy. Fuck the passport or place of birth arguments. And I've said it before, no way the Orange army would ever show up for a Belgian.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

Got to love a rich dad who can relive his very average F1 career vicariously through his son.
You would have thought that with all the advantages M Verstappen had he would have done a lot better than coming second best to Ricciardo in their couple of years together.

Advantages ? Give me a break !
As you know Red Bull is running behind the facts by the lack of power !
MAX is running beyond the limits with less...nonetheless sometimes he can split the Mercs with less or win a race with less !
Can't see anyone doing this in this season , by the overall Benz dominance ?
He ran every race in this season on the podium with less , disregarded his 2 DNF .

RIC ? He slammed his fist through the motorhomes wall , because he couldn't stand it anymore to be the second RB driver ..
MAX could see RIC's fist in his room coming out from his side of the wall . RIC had hurted his bleeding fist pretty badly !
Because MAX's performance was outstanding . MAX was able to win races !
And finally RIC walked with his cheese smile at Renault... Because he lost it from a kid born in Belgium !

Even Bottas with his grandma's racecraft is sometimes faster than the GOAT !
Because Bottas is driving a Benz as well ....In the RB16 he would be nowhere and out of sight !

"Advantages" that's where the Mercs run with mate !

AMEN !

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by EdM5

True. I gave up on this discussion a while ago. But once more:

Max speaks (pronunciation is Dutch definitely not Flemmish), acts (directly) and behaves (cocky) like a typical Dutch guy. Fuck the passport or place of birth arguments. And I've said it before, no way the Orange army would ever show up for a Belgian.

Jos speelde hierin een zeer belangrijke rol mijn friend !
Onnodig te zeggen dat papa Jos Hollands is ... MAX was 90% van zijn tijd met papa Jos , dag en nacht op de circuits .
Daarom is het ook logisch dat MAX "meestal" met een Hollands accent spreekt .

Ik weet echter niet dat je hiervan op de hoogte bent ?
Als MAX met zijn Belgische mama Sofie-Kumpen is , dat spreekt MAX met een perfect Vlaams (Hasselts) Belgisch accent !

Mijn vriend , als je geboren bent in Holland dan ben je een Hollander .
Als je geboren bent in Belgie , dan ben je een Belg net zoals MAX eigenlijk is met een Belgisch paspoort en een Belgisch rijbewijs !
Laten we alvast hopen , dat hij volgende zondag kan winnen als het tenminste eindelijk zou willen gaan regenen ...
Zoals u al zei , is dit eigenlijk een stomme belachelijke dicussie .

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by ScottSinger

Hamilton had knocked Nico for his family’s status during the 2016 season which was just ridiculous, if psychological gaming for battle or what Hamilton perceived as a legitimate argument.

My response was to the post about Hamilton relaying about getting racially taunted in karting.

Hamilton by all accounts had a childhood the masses could only dream about.

Obviously you've never been called racial epithets when you are plying your trade as a child or adult. It is far less than ideal. Let me assure you of that.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by EdM5

Geez, all this BS discussions going on. Let's get to business. Here's my GOAT top 10

1. Senna
2. Hamilton
3. Schumacher
4. Fangio
5. Clark
6. Prost
7. Lauda
8. Stewart
9. Gilles Villeneuve
10. Alonso

So what do you think?

Good list. Here is mine:

HAM
CLARK
SENNA
FANGIO
SCHUMACHER
LAUDA
PROST
STEWART
VILLENEUVE
ALONSO

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by StatenEye

Max himself after being claimed by Belgian media, i mean what else can i say.

"Article from Dutch News.NL"

[EdM5]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Daarom is het ook logisch dat MAX "meestal" met een Hollands accent spreekt .


Laten we alvast hopen , dat hij volgende zondag kan winnen als het tenminste eindelijk zou willen gaan regenen ...
.

Nou moet ik eerlijk zeggen dat arrogante Hollanders het accent van Max over het algemeen maar dommig vinden (Limburgs). Zeker geen "Hollands".

En helemaal eens, hopelijk gaat hij nog een paar races winnen dit jaar

We sluiten hier deze discussie!

[VisualEcho]

Originally Posted by EdM5

Geez, all this BS discussions going on. Let's get to business. Here's my GOAT top 10

1. Senna
2. Hamilton
3. Schumacher
4. Fangio
5. Clark
6. Prost
7. Lauda
8. Stewart
9. Gilles Villeneuve
10. Alonso

So what do you think?

I wouldn't put Schumacher that high, under Fangio for sure. I'd also consider Hamilton a distant second to Senna, not really second. He's more like 2.5th or 3rd with no one in between.

1. Senna
2. Senna
2.5. Senna/Hamilton
3. Hamilton
4. Hamilton
5. Fangio
6. Schumacher

Etc.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by VisualEcho

I wouldn't put Schumacher that high, under Fangio for sure. I'd also consider Hamilton a distant second to Senna, not really second. He's more like 2.5th or 3rd with no one in between.

1. Senna
2. Senna
2.5. Senna/Hamilton
3. Hamilton
4. Hamilton
5. Fangio
6. Schumacher

Etc.

LOL!! I don't fully agree but I definitely appreciate the spirit in which this offering was made!!! BRAVO!!

[EdM5]

Originally Posted by VisualEcho

I wouldn't put Schumacher that high, under Fangio for sure. I'd also consider Hamilton a distant second to Senna, not really second. He's more like 2.5th or 3rd with no one in between.

1. Senna
2. Senna
2.5. Senna/Hamilton
3. Hamilton
4. Hamilton
5. Fangio
6. Schumacher

Etc.

one of the most hilarious lists I've ever seen. Well played sir.

The thing with Fangio, Moss, Ascari, Stewart, Clark etc is that probably none of us have actually witnessed these guys race. My point of reference is late 80s when I started watching as a kid.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by EdM5

one of the most hilarious lists I've ever seen. Well played sir.

The thing with Fangio, Moss, Ascari, Stewart, Clark etc is that probably none of us have actually witnessed these guys race. My point of reference is late 80s when I started watching as a kid.

The other thing with Fangio is that the reason he won in 4 different cars is that he would only drive for the team with the fastest car. Not diminishing his accomplishment...just providing context.

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Advantages ? Give me a break

A rich father with contacts in F1 is most definitely an advantage.

But anyway Ricciardo v Verstappen



If Verstappen was such a hotshot you would thought he would have done a lot better against Ricciardo.

[VisualEcho]

Originally Posted by EdM5

one of the most hilarious lists I've ever seen. Well played sir.

The thing with Fangio, Moss, Ascari, Stewart, Clark etc is that probably none of us have actually witnessed these guys race. My point of reference is late 80s when I started watching as a kid.

The thing is, I think the list changes depending on the car.

I honestly believe that Hamilton could not outdrive Clark in a car of Clark's era, regardless of how many years Hamilton practiced. I think you have to be bred to it. I think it comes from early childhood, just as much as it comes from genetics. Those old cars took a certain type of nut to drive, and I'm not sure we have many of those around anymore. Senna, for all his brilliance, was a bit of a throwback because he was a nut as well.

This is the main reason I put Senna in the top 3 spots; he had it all, impossible car feeling/control, talent, work ethic, and that x-factor where he'd put it all on the line for a win (good or bad.).

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by VisualEcho

The thing is, I think the list changes depending on the car.

I honestly believe that Hamilton could not outdrive Clark in a car of Clark's era, regardless of how many years Hamilton practiced.

I would disagree absolutely with that.
To start with, the cars of Clarks era were by comparison to modern F1 a simple car to drive...with no downforce and low grip there was plenty of feel for a skilled driver to exploit
A modern F1 car with high downforce and ultra sticky wide tyres are a far more difficult car to drive at the limit.
As for Senna vrs Hamilton - its always just a personal opinion - I see the same skills in Hamilton as I did in Senna. Never more starkly demonstrated by Hamiltons rookie year in F1...just exceptional.

[VisualEcho]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

I would disagree absolutely with that.
To start with, the cars of Clarks era were by comparison to modern F1 a simple car to drive...with no downforce and low grip there was plenty of feel for a skilled driver to exploit
A modern F1 car with high downforce and ultra sticky wide tyres are a far more difficult car to drive at the limit.

You're kidding, right?

Modern F1 cars practically drive themselves, you need only super quick reflexes and to keep the speed up (to keep the heat in the tires).

The older cars took real balls to drive, something I question in the new breed.

[5.M0NSTER]

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by EdM5

Nou moet ik eerlijk zeggen dat arrogante Hollanders het accent van Max over het algemeen maar dommig vinden (Limburgs). Zeker geen "Hollands".

En helemaal eens, hopelijk gaat hij nog een paar races winnen dit jaar

We sluiten hier deze discussie!

Zo jammer van Zandvoort ! Gezien dit een immense investering was !
Zantvoort ziet er fantastisch uit met die banking , alles was al in paraatheid gebracht en de rush om de werken op tijd klaar te krijgen .
En dan plotseling....Dat verdomde klote virus dat alles op on-hold kon zetten .
Hopelijk in Zandvoort voor volgend jaar als het virus eindelijk verdwenen is . Al heb ik hier mijn sterke twijfels over..

Ik zou zeggen , blijf ondertussen gezond en veilig mijn vriend !

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

A rich father with contacts in F1 is most definitely an advantage.

But anyway Ricciardo v Verstappen


If Verstappen was such a hotshot you would thought he would have done a lot better against Ricciardo.

A rich father ? I agree , that was the situation in MAX's successful kart career , because in the beginning all the money has to come from the own pockets !
He was the best of the world ! That's what MAX showed on the kart circuits .
Money helped but actually that doesn't matter . The driver has to show his driver skills to get in the worlds spot lights ..
That's what MAX actually did ..

But Jos's influence was nowhere in the F1 . Some slimy talk has no influence in the todays F1 !
It's what you can show to the F1 teams, and that's all about drivers performances .

RIC ? Mate are you serious ?

RIC had already 6 years of driver experience in the F1 and drove the Red Bull actually already blindfolded !
While MAX drove his first races without drivers license , age 17 !

In F1 terms that's like a grandpa vs a kid !
Anyway , RIC felt it was time to leave and walked because the kid was after a few races suddenly faster !
If RIC was stayed at Red Bull . MAX would have brought him down completely , and RIC's market value would be worth nothing anymore ...

So , RIC's escape plan worked really well ...

[5.M0NSTER]

And roll the excuses B-roll. Always the same story. Exactly why so many here are tired of this BS

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by VisualEcho

You're kidding, right?

Modern F1 cars practically drive themselves, you need only super quick reflexes and to keep the speed up (to keep the heat in the tires).

The older cars took real balls to drive, something I question in the new breed.

There is no warning for break away with these cars. The older cars had gentle break aways and lots of warning. These high-downforce cars do the opposite. And don't even go into the steering wheel. Most people can't operate the radio buttons and check the menus on their street car. Now let's look at resenting the KERS at speed as HAM did in race conditions and lost 2 Tenths of a second on the lap.

Anyone thinking that it is easy to drive a modern F1 car has zero idea about modern Formula One. Here is a quick comparison.

[VisualEcho]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

There is no warning for break away with these cars. The older cars had gentle break aways and lots of warning.

I disagree, somewhat. The older cars might have given more warning (because of the tires mostly), but it was absolutely constant, especially in the rain. They wore the drivers out.

Originally Posted by MKSixer

And don't even go into the steering wheel.

Again, using your fingers to drive. The old guys used ONE HAND and shifted the cars.

I'm not saying that the new cars can be driven by monkeys, I'm just saying it's a different skillset.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by VisualEcho

I disagree, somewhat. The older cars might have given more warning (because of the tires mostly), but it was absolutely constant, especially in the rain. They wore the drivers out.



Again, using your fingers to drive. The old guys used ONE HAND and shifted the cars.

I'm not saying that the new cars can be driven by monkeys, I'm just saying it's a different skillset.

A great driver is a great driver. Chuck Yeager proved this when he put the F86 up against the MiG 15. Everyone thought the winning F86 won because it was an F86 but Yeager went up in the MiG 15 and destroyed the F86. The F86 pilot was a serious pilot and couldn't shake Yeager because he was a better pilot.

These are directly analogous.

Hamilton could drive an older car just as Senna could drive a newer one. I believe that there could be a technical gulf back to Clark's era but I'm not certain.

On your part about the cars wearing you out: The drivers are pulling 4-6 Gs on a constant basis. Formula One drivers are exposed to more "G" than any other humans on the planet. More than fighter pilots. More than astronauts. To say that an older car would wear these drivers out who are infinitely more fit and scientifically trained and managed is a bit naive.