[R N M]

Originally Posted by Darth One

Well if you’re looking for ‘raw’, then cross all the BMW’s off your list. M’s are for doing a lot of things well, including refined daily driving. And please dear God why is Lexus even on your list

Of the Porsches, the only one that really offers a ‘raw’ driving experience by my definition is the GT4. So I’d have crossed them off the list - EXCEPT you say that the 991 is perfect. If you love that car, then get it in manual. You don’t need the GTS trim if you want to save money. You’re not going to do any better IMO. The Caymans are more nimble and balanced, but the 911’s set the bar higher.

The only M im seriously considering is a E92 M3 in manual. It has hydraulic steering and amazing engine.

Need to drive a 981 Cayman still.

[R N M]

Originally Posted by baege

given what you are looking for then I would say a 991.1 6MT (whether S or not) should be your target

they offer a relatively raw driving experience, awesome sound and are holding their values very well

now the trick is finding a good one, something that might not be so easy, something I am experiencing in my search for an R8 v10 6MT that has gone a good 9 months so far...

991.1 GTS in manual would be a homerun.
I’m looking at the S and 4S as well.

The good thing about 911 vs R8 is there are a Lot more 911 stock to choose from and a lot of them are sold by Porsche dealers with certified warranty. Majority of R8s listed are by 3rd party dealers. v10 manual would be epic - good luck in your search 👍

[Leftkeylife]

Originally Posted by R N M

Have you driven one?
991.1 GTS has the detuned motor from GT3. It sounds great and has enough comfort features to make it car that you can drive with ur wife and not get divorced lol.

997 are nice as well but I prefer the looks of 991 especially interior.

997 was still a sports car while the 991 moved in Grand Tourer that slices and dices like a sport car.

Also, just to correct you, the 991 GTS did not have a defined GT3 motor, it had a 9A1 motor from the 991S (I have one) with the X51 power kit which comprised new tuning, intake and a full exhaust. Other than that they share the same general structure. Any 991S could be fitted with the X51 kit as well. X51 on a 991 was over an 18k option from the factory so that alone pays for the upgrade over the S not to mention all the other things it got that you can and can’t get, but it sounds like you know that well enough. It is an absurdly great engine, and very satisfying to drive at any speed.

Either way, the NASP engined 991s are quickly becoming more and more sought out. They will be a great investment car in the coming years. I know my mint 991S with only 5k miles, but with a manual, PCCB, about as much leather inside as one can spec and Paint to Sample is a keeper.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by R N M

Have you driven one?
991.1 GTS has the detuned motor from GT3. It sounds great and has enough comfort features to make it car that you can drive with ur wife and not get divorced lol.

997 are nice as well but I prefer the looks of 991 especially interior.

No I have not. I cannot rationailse it, i can't, a regular 991 or S seems fine but for some reason the GTS .......... i dunno, can't put it in words.

[Leftkeylife]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

No I have not. I cannot rationailse it, i can't, a regular 991 or S seems fine but for some reason the GTS .......... i dunno, can't put it in words.

You should without a doubt drive one. Even though the GTS is mostly an S with a lot of optional S items and a few items you can’t get on an S, they seem to be able to slice the piece of 911 pie again, and in doing so they make it feel like a different car and a special one at that. That too goes for the mk2 GTS as well.

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

No I have not. I cannot rationailse it, i can't, a regular 991 or S seems fine but for some reason the GTS .......... i dunno, can't put it in words.

In addition to the X51 engine upgrade, the GTS also gets the centerlock wheels, standard sport exhaust, has the GTS interior package option, trim is blacked out, and louder exhaust sound. They are very different, it is not just an S with some marketing gimmicks. Porsche knows exactly what they are doing with the lineup progression.

[Germanauto]

Besides the 2020 models and CPO Lexus everything else will be a reliability/maintenance headache as a daily driver. I love all those older cars, but feel they'd be best relegated for weekend use only.

[NickyC]

Originally Posted by Run Silent

I just sold my Ferrari 360 and replaced it with an Alfa Romeo 4C.

PM me with any questions you might have - ther 360 was awesome and cannot say enough good things about that engine sound. Mine was an F1 - R&M was actually very reasonable.

It cost me about 4K per year

You lucky dog! I've wanted a 4C forever, but I can't even get into the car. I'm physically incapable of getting into it, I tried every which way to fit into a Spider as that was to be my next car after my Z4M. I was even ready to give up my beloved 6MT for the 4C!

Much laughter was had at the dealership, but honestly I was sick over the whole thing because I really wanted that car. I had to settle for the M4. (which I absolutely adore so lucky me)

Congrats, hope you're really enjoying it!

[Josh-PA]

Originally Posted by R N M

991.1 GTS in manual would be a homerun.
I’m looking at the S and 4S as well.

The good thing about 911 vs R8 is there are a Lot more 911 stock to choose from and a lot of them are sold by Porsche dealers with certified warranty. Majority of R8s listed are by 3rd party dealers. v10 manual would be epic - good luck in your search 👍

If you find an opportunity you should drive a .2 base / S for comparison. You might not find the new engine to your liking, but I thought it was SOOOO much more alive than the NA ones. They did a really nice job adding the little turbos for some torque punch w/o killing the top end revs. In comparision I hated the 981s for lack of low end.... HATED it.

[W///]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

No I have not. I cannot rationailse it, i can't, a regular 991 or S seems fine but for some reason the GTS .......... i dunno, can't put it in words.

I'm with you on this one. I just do not this the GTS is worth the upgrade over the S, whether brand new or used, because they're a decent premium.

Even makes less of a difference to me when talking about the 991.2 since you can easily throw a tune on there.

Originally Posted by NickyC

You lucky dog! I've wanted a 4C forever, but I can't even get into the car. I'm physically incapable of getting into it, I tried every which way to fit into a Spider as that was to be my next car after my Z4M. I was even ready to give up my beloved 6MT for the 4C!

Much laughter was had at the dealership, but honestly I was sick over the whole thing because I really wanted that car. I had to settle for the M4. (which I absolutely adore so lucky me)

Congrats, hope you're really enjoying it!

Hmm I've had a chance to drive the 4C extensively in the mountains back to back with my Z4MR an was not blown away. Between 2 pedals and the turbo 4, it had nothing on the 6MT and S54 combo IMHO. I also don't think it felt as polished and confidence inspiring as a Porsche.

I will say though, the car gets a ton of attention as you don't see a ton of them around, especially in yellow. It was also interesting to drive a new car with no power steering, but I didn't find the result of that to be better than say a Cayman.

My 2 cents!

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by W///

I'm with you on this one. I just do not this the GTS is worth the upgrade over the S, whether brand new or used, because they're a decent premium.

Even makes less of a difference to me when talking about the 991.2 since you can easily throw a tune on there.

It's not even that, you could say the same about the 997. I think with the 997, the second you see it you go THAT"s A GTS! WIth the 991, you kinda gotta squint as the base and S look so good.

IMVHO the GTS should be NA and not come with an all leather option but that's just me.

[NickyC]

Originally Posted by W///

I'm with you on this one. I just do not this the GTS is worth the upgrade over the S, whether brand new or used, because they're a decent premium.

Even makes less of a difference to me when talking about the 991.2 since you can easily throw a tune on there.



Hmm I've had a chance to drive the 4C extensively in the mountains back to back with my Z4MR an was not blown away. Between 2 pedals and the turbo 4, it had nothing on the 6MT and S54 combo IMHO. I also don't think it felt as polished and confidence inspiring as a Porsche.

I will say though, the car gets a ton of attention as you don't see a ton of them around, especially in yellow. It was also interesting to drive a new car with no power steering, but I didn't find the result of that to be better than say a Cayman.

My 2 cents!

Thanks for the feedback, I’ll never know if I’d like the car or not because I can’t drive it!

No regrets about the M4 though, best car I’ve ever owned!

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by NickyC

Thanks for the feedback, I’ll never know if I’d like the car or not because I can’t drive it!

No regrets about the M4 though, best car I’ve ever owned!

It's not confidence inspiring at all - but that is the point, I think!

I don't want something that has to be driven at 7k rpm and 150mph at 1.1g to give me any feedback.

Cayman over the 4C any day on the track if trying to get a low lap time.

4C over nearly anything else if you want raw feel and excitement driving normal roads.

[Josh-PA]

Originally Posted by Run Silent

It's not confidence inspiring at all - but that is the point, I think!

I don't want something that has to be driven at 7k rpm and 150mph at 1.1g to give me any feedback.

Cayman over the 4C any day on the track if trying to get a low lap time.

4C over nearly anything else if you want raw feel and excitement driving normal roads.

To this point, I wonder if the OP might add an elise to his list of sports car possibilities. While it won't have that V8 sound, it will be revelationary in its feel, nimbleness, and rawness compared to his F80. They're pretty cheap too, and with the toyota engine not outrageous to maintain.

[John @ BSPK]

Originally Posted by Run Silent

I just sold my Ferrari 360 and replaced it with an Alfa Romeo 4C.

PM me with any questions you might have - ther 360 was awesome and cannot say enough good things about that engine sound. Mine was an F1 - R&M was actually very reasonable.

It cost me about 4K per year

I was going to suggest Alfa 4C. I have had one for ~4 years now and it’s absolutely a forever car for me. I know the OP said V8 and manual but the driving experience of the 4C is like no other modern car. For a single purpose weekend toy vehicle, I don’t think you can do better. OP should definitely drive one. It’s not for everyone but if you really want a pure, back to basics, light, fun car, it’s amazing.

It’s also very cheap to own. Don’t be fooled by the Alfa reliability rumors. They’re rock solid little cars. In 4 years (granted across two different cars - traded one for another) I have had zero issues. Oil changes are cheap (under 150 at dealer) and it will need a bolt service every couple years (~600 but varies by dealer). That’s it.

Regardless, happy hunting

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by Josh-PA

To this point, I wonder if the OP might add an elise to his list of sports car possibilities. While it won't have that V8 sound, it will be revelationary in its feel, nimbleness, and rawness compared to his F80. They're pretty cheap too, and with the toyota engine not outrageous to maintain.

I was always an Elise fan - until the 4C. Agreed, you can get a 6MT in the Elise, which is a big plus, put the offsets to that plus were too many minuses. Combine that with the fact they really aren't that cheap anymore - almost the same price as the 4C!

A quality Elise with low miles is gonna run around $35K to $45K. Comparable 4C will cost about $45K to $55K. Just the fact that you are comparing a 2005 model year to a 2017 model year is worth the price difference alone. Then add modern equipment and cockpit of the 4c, performance and so forth - less of a comparison now.

Plus - Lotus has legit quality issues compared to the Alfa.

Was a no brainer to me. I love the Elise - but not at nearly the same price as the Alfa.

[Leftkeylife]

Originally Posted by John4C

I was going to suggest Alfa 4C. I have had one for ~4 years now and it’s absolutely a forever car for me. I know the OP said V8 and manual but the driving experience of the 4C is like no other modern car. For a single purpose weekend toy vehicle, I don’t think you can do better. OP should definitely drive one. It’s not for everyone but if you really want a pure, back to basics, light, fun car, it’s amazing.

It’s also very cheap to own. Don’t be fooled by the Alfa reliability rumors. They’re rock solid little cars. In 4 years (granted across two different cars - traded one for another) I have had zero issues. Oil changes are cheap (under 150 at dealer) and it will need a bolt service every couple years (~600 but varies by dealer). That’s it.

Regardless, happy hunting

4C's are fantastic. Have thought many times about buying one. Awesome little cars. Also really think the 4 cylinder sounds great in them.

I have been a huge Qaudrifoglio fan on the Giulia and Stevlio platform as well. I just think the Giulia Q is such a pretty car.

[Alfisti]

I think i'd own a 4c if it had 4 seats. I can't see myself driving off with one son whilst the other stands on the driveway holding his dick.

[W///]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

I think i'd own a 4c if it had 4 seats. I can't see myself driving off with one son whilst the other stands on the driveway holding his dick.

[yousefnjr]

If you’re looking for a track toy, a Z06 or ZL1 1LE are in your price range and would monster everything else on your list. For a Sunday morning cruiser, I’d probably have something old and slower that made more of an appeal to the senses. Might be able to find an F430 close to that price range, but I think the manuals are like hen’s teeth.

[R N M]

Thanks all for suggestions.

Not looking for track day type car or Lotus / Alfa.

I want a car that doesn’t compromise visibility, seating position etc. My BRZ although small has great leg room and head room as well as visibility. Also rear seats are a bonus as i have small kids and i can fit them in a pinch if needed.

GT3 would be the perfect car if i had $135-150k

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by R N M

Thanks all for suggestions.

Not looking for track day type car or Lotus / Alfa.

I want a car that doesn’t compromise visibility, seating position etc. My BRZ although small has great leg room and head room as well as visibility. Also rear seats are a bonus as i have small kids and i can fit them in a pinch if needed.

GT3 would be the perfect car if i had $135-150k

You can get a 2014-15 GT3 in the $100-110k range that will still have an engine warranty until 2024-25. Before you say “but it’s not a manual” try driving one and you might change your mind. The PDK-S is incredible.