[RABAUKE]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck

It's not trolling, but the reaction to it is reflective of the collective contempt and disrespect that some of you hold dear.

This has nothing to do with politics, ESPN dealt with an employee and potential blowback on him ... nothing more, nothing less. Your collective failure to even recognize the point just reflects poorly on all of you.

So if ESPN really were concerned wouldn't they just remove Mr Lee completely from all broadcasts as this clearly isn't an issue in Virginia and presumably the folks that live in Virginia watch games that don't involve Virginia teams. Your position may hold more water if they were to remove him completely, but these issues are popping up all over the US.

[JohnnyCanuck]

Originally Posted by RABAUKE

So if ESPN really were concerned wouldn't they just remove Mr Lee completely from all broadcasts as this clearly isn't an issue in Virginia and presumably the folks that live in Virginia watch games that don't involve Virginia teams. Your position may hold more water if they were to remove him completely, but these issues are popping up all over the US.

You're suggesting that they should fire him? The issue was the potential blowback towards a broadcaster named Robert Lee doing a UVA game being broadcast from the UVA stadium in Charlottesville two weeks after the violence. Not an issue for any other game he might do and probably not an issue later in the season. But in the raw emotions of the aftermath of last weekend, not an unreasonable thought.

As for you posts about Sir John A. and the motion from Ontario teachers to look at renaming schools, I agree with you that they're wrong. I see a fundamental difference between memorializing historical figures and memorials that are designed to create revisionist history. Memorializing MacDonald, Laurier, Tupper, Borden, King (as well as Washington, Jefferson, etc) is important. There is a narrow distinction I draw between certain Confederate memorials (the "lost cause" ones) and the rest. But, what's wrong with having the debate? If the debate causes us to reflect on our history and remind us that it's got some ugliness ... why is that a bad thing?

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck

It's not trolling, but the reaction to it is reflective of the collective contempt and disrespect that some of you hold dear.

This has nothing to do with politics, ESPN dealt with an employee and potential blowback on him ... nothing more, nothing less. Your collective failure to even recognize the point just reflects poorly on all of you.

Your assertion that an Asian announcer for a Virginia game should even be an issue reflects very poorly. How can this even be taken seriously?

I guess Rece Davis and John Anderson need to start looking for jobs outside ESPN broadcasting.

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck

You're suggesting that they should fire him? The issue was the potential blowback towards a broadcaster named Robert Lee doing a UVA game being broadcast from the UVA stadium in Charlottesville two weeks after the violence. Not an issue for any other game he might do and probably not an issue later in the season. But in the raw emotions of the aftermath of last weekend, not an unreasonable thought.

As for you posts about Sir John A. and the motion from Ontario teachers to look at renaming schools, I agree with you that they're wrong. I see a fundamental difference between memorializing historical figures and memorials that are designed to create revisionist history. Memorializing MacDonald, Laurier, Tupper, Borden, King (as well as Washington, Jefferson, etc) is important. There is a narrow distinction I draw between certain Confederate memorials (the "lost cause" ones) and the rest. But, what's wrong with having the debate? If the debate causes us to reflect on our history and remind us that it's got some ugliness ... why is that a bad thing?

Tearing down statues and memorials is NOT debate. Renaming things is not debate.

I graduated from Robert E. Lee High School in Houston, Texas. Last year, they renamed that school and removed all memorabilia from the school that had Lee's name on it. That was my heritage - is that debate?

[JohnnyCanuck]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

Your assertion that an Asian announcer for a Virginia game should even be an issue reflects very poorly. How can this even be taken seriously?

I guess Rece Davis and John Anderson need to start looking for jobs outside ESPN broadcasting.

You are really good at missing the point. Is it deliberate?

[JohnnyCanuck]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

Tearing down statues and memorials is NOT debate. Renaming things is not debate.

I graduated from Robert E. Lee High School in Houston, Texas. Last year, they renamed that school and removed all memorabilia from the school that had Lee's name on it. That was my heritage - is that debate?

Let me say it again: you're really good at missing the point, is it deliberate?

The point wasn't that we should rename anything (in fact, if you would read for comprehension I actually said I was against that), but that we shouldn't be afraid to have a conversation about whether are memorials are making the right point and whether our history is being appropriately reflected.

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck

Let me say it again: you're really good at missing the point, is it deliberate?

The point wasn't that we should rename anything (in fact, if you would read for comprehension I actually said I was against that), but that we shouldn't be afraid to have a conversation about whether are memorials are making the right point and whether our history is being appropriately reflected.

I didn't miss your point at all. Why so arrogant? I was making my own point that this is going way beyond debate.

[RABAUKE]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck

You're suggesting that they should fire him? The issue was the potential blowback towards a broadcaster named Robert Lee doing a UVA game being broadcast from the UVA stadium in Charlottesville two weeks after the violence. Not an issue for any other game he might do and probably not an issue later in the season. But in the raw emotions of the aftermath of last weekend, not an unreasonable thought.

As for you posts about Sir John A. and the motion from Ontario teachers to look at renaming schools, I agree with you that they're wrong. I see a fundamental difference between memorializing historical figures and memorials that are designed to create revisionist history. Memorializing MacDonald, Laurier, Tupper, Borden, King (as well as Washington, Jefferson, etc) is important. There is a narrow distinction I draw between certain Confederate memorials (the "lost cause" ones) and the rest. But, what's wrong with having the debate? If the debate causes us to reflect on our history and remind us that it's got some ugliness ... why is that a bad thing?

My comment about firing him was a joke......my point again is that if there is blowback it could just as well come from any of the other states in the union, so all that ESPN has done is draw attention to themselves on a non-issue.

[JohnnyCanuck]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

I didn't miss your point at all. Why so arrogant? I was making my own point that this is going way beyond debate.

It's not meant to be arrogant, it's that I live this crap every day. You have no idea how many bullying and harassment complaints I deal with. Most (thankfully) are unfounded, but there are ones like the one I am preparing for an upcoming arbitration where the conduct from one employee to another was vile and reprehensible. Spending time with the victim, preparing them for giving evidence, and seeing the long running impacts of the behaviour can be hard to shake, especially this week.

ESPN erring on the side of caution is the right to have done as the employer. If I was Lee, I wouldn't have taken them up on the offer and in retrospect not doing so would have caused less of a media shitstorm. But, you have to remember that most viewers wouldn't know he's Asian ... they would see the onscreen bug listing game announcers and there are unquestionably some who would go to an ugly place. ESPN offering to try and shield an employee from that is a good thing, especially when you see the ugly side of what harassment can do.

[schoy]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

Tearing down statues and memorials is NOT debate. Renaming things is not debate.

I graduated from Robert E. Lee High School in Houston, Texas. Last year, they renamed that school and removed all memorabilia from the school that had Lee's name on it. That was my heritage - is that debate?

Times change, and your heritage obviously didn't mean enough to the school board that made the decision. Think of all of the "heritages" that were wiped out because of, say, Brown v. Board of Education. A lot of white people didn't have an all-white public school to send their kids to anymore.

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by schoy

Times change, and your heritage obviously didn't mean enough to the school board that made the decision. Think of all of the "heritages" that were wiped out because of, say, Brown v. Board of Education. A lot of white people didn't have an all-white public school to send their kids to anymore.

I was a military kid and until I went to High School, I attended schools on the military bases. From Kindergarten on, I didn't attend an all-white school.

[M3 Number 86]

I understand liberals. But true liberals are on the right now since the left is going down a shit storm.

You guys really want to ask for debate when you are ones who clearly won't?

Hey here's one for you guys. Let's take Jake Tapper off the air!

[Axius]

Jake Tapper is a piece of shit. What kind of scummy bastard makes a plastic company called Tapperware, all that plastic is destroying our ecosystems.

[CTinline-six]

Wow, you seriously can't make this shit up. I knew ESPN was stupid, but this is a whole new level.

[Maestro]

Now Robert E Lee IV, the great grandson of the General, is preacher and was ask to leave the church he was leading since he had been speaking out against General. The church was receiving death threats she the Lee IV was stay things like Black Lives matter has it right.

I personally think this whole situation is going to get far worse before it is even going to get better. We have crazies on all sided and not one can see the other side anymore, talk about the fog of war.