[PK2348]

Originally Posted by NickyC

They're smart and ahead of the curve. They know debt levels are massive, and a huge portion of car loans/leases don't even verify borrower income. Once easy money dries up, we're at another 2008 implosion. Can't wait.

This is only the start, auto market is prime to pop pop pop. Looking forward to picking up something nice in 12 months with cash, thanks to all the folks with fleases and eight year car loans riding in shit they can't afford!

Mortgage backed securities which went bust in 2008 are a popular investment.
Car loans are not nearly as popular and $$$ involved are significantly less.

[doug_999]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

You must have missed the news from a couple months ago that BMW management has been freaking out over the 7er's slow sales. Internally, blame has been placed on its lackluster design inside and out. And how would I define "success" for the 7-series? Maybe not getting its ass whooped by the S-class after being head-to-head with it when the E65 was on the market.

And I have to wonder who is calling the ancient and boring X3 a better vehicle than the cheaper Q5. Sounds like fake news to me.

You sound like a blind fanboy. Are you on the BMW payroll by any chance?

Yep, must be blind - just show me when the 7 series last outsold the S-Class, show me all the reviews that paint the 2017 and earlier Q5 better than the X3 and while you are at it, let's look at the sales of the new 7 vs. the old.

Bring it - start your research now and prepare the apology when you have time.

here, I'll get you started Mr. Audi Fanboy

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test

[hinckley]

Audi's U.S. sales were up 2.5% for the month / 6.5% for the year. The A4 is up 9.3% / 17.6%. Some of those sales must have come from 3er customers.

[vladberca]

Originally Posted by hinckley

Audi's U.S. sales were up 2.5% for the month / 6.5% for the year. The A4 is up 9.3% / 17.6%. Some of those sales must have come from 3er customers.

Audi is still well behind BMW.
Daimler is the real rival. First on global sales, too.
With the new X3, BMW will recover a little bit.

[Bosozoku]

Pretty grim, except for pre-owned car sales:

Originally Posted by Jason

BMW Pre-Owned Vehicles
Total BMW Pre-Owned cars sold year-to-date were 101,036, a 24.2 percent increase from the first five months of 2016.
...

[tpm17]

I was a loyal loyal loyal leaser of BMWs for 10 years, but this year I pulled the plug and leased two Jeep models for the same price of one BMW model lease. Their lease programs even on demos and executive models blow and they would not play ball with me. When my lease was up a fee months ago I walked from the brand.

[firedown31]

Originally Posted by stealth-twntrbo

MSD's are less than 0.5% of all contracts at BMW Financial Services its such a small number. Residuals have been very similar for the last 3 years they haven't dropped them. MF will continue to rise for most luxury brands due to interest rates. Its either high residual and high MF or lower residual low MF.

Residuals are probably the biggest deciding factor, and those have dropped while the MF has gone up.

MY15 M3 in March 15
M3
.00129
15k 63%
12k 65%
10k 66%
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...postcount=1496

MY16 M3 in March 16
M3
.00135
15k 58%
12k 60%
10k 61%
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...postcount=3097

MY17 M3 in March 17
M3
.00140
15k 59%
12k 61%
10k 62%
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...postcount=1457

The best time to buy a 3/4 series was March of 2015 (lowest MF and highest residuals).

[domfan69]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

Speaking of price, has anybody else noticed how a freaking X3 costs not much less than a Macan? I'm rolling with the sexier and more fun to drive Porsche 100% of the time and I suspect a lot of people are too.

And the Q5 is a better overall vehicle than the X3 and can be had for thousands less. A no brainer if you ask me.

Exactly........Porsche Macan easy choice over boring,unreliable X3 or soft camry like 3 series for just about the same money.......That's why I left BMW after 15 years ...... My last BMW was an E90.....Great car.......Porsche Macan even better

[domfan69]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeGeoff

That's what happens when you change your whole image and formula for making cars. E to F chassis was an abortion.

Exactly!

[Bama335]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

I will say that when my gf was shopping for a small luxury SUV, she wasn't really impressed with the X3. She actually preferred the X1, although she didn't end up buying a BMW.

She went with the Audi Q3, which isn't the same sort of performer that the X1 is, but had WAY more amenities and features, and for less money out the door.

Same story here, she wasn't impressed with the X3 or the X1, and while she liked the Macan, she couldn't justify the extra $$ for an interior that wasn't as plush in her opinion - she ended up ordering a GLC300

[The Choosey begger]

It's hard to bring in customers with boring designs like with the new 5 series.

(I'm not a marketing expert, just play one on the forums)

[avex8]

Conclusion: Bmw suck balls now

I love my tesla s and x got the speed , look and nice interior

[doug_999]

Spoke to my dealer yesterday...
BMW has plenty of buyers in other countries and makes more money in those countries - so why focus on a market where they make less money? (and why offer deals where they lose money?)

Brought up mr. germanauto's comments about the 7 series, with a laugh he said, "the fact is, the 7 series and S class are for people who are on the older end of the scale and MB has that side covered - with BMW being more of a young person's car company" - in other words, the people buying S classes are older and have had MBs for a long time.

I did drive the 7 and it was way too big for me - but damn, it was stunning inside and out and the reviews have been pretty positive.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by doug_999

Spoke to my dealer yesterday...
BMW has plenty of buyers in other countries and makes more money in those countries - so why focus on a market where they make less money? (and why offer deals where they lose money?)

Brought up mr. germanauto's comments about the 7 series, with a laugh he said, "the fact is, the 7 series and S class are for people who are on the older end of the scale and MB has that side covered - with BMW being more of a young person's car company" - in other words, the people buying S classes are older and have had MBs for a long time.

I did drive the 7 and it was way too big for me - but damn, it was stunning inside and out and the reviews have been pretty positive.

Any salesman will have a "reason" or an "excuse" for just about any circumstance you can dream up about their product...hence the reason the person is good at selling (talking BS with people).

If you look back through the entire history of the 7-series in the USA starting in 1978 with the E23, BMW's 7-series customer has *always* been a good bit younger than the S-class Merc. In fact, I'd wager that in the past 39 years, that age gap has been decreasing.

In the old days (real BMW days), 7-series cars were not gigantic whales closing in on the proportions of 1970s Detroit iron (heck, the current 5-series has a longer wheelbase than a 1978 Oldsmobile Delta 88 Royale). I had a lot of fun in 1980 with an E23 733i with 5MT and then later on a special ordered E32 735i with 5MT and LSD...both were fantastic cars in their days, fun to drive, big enough without being obnoxiously huge. Perfect sized.

[SCOTT26]

Globally the new 5er has taken off especially in Europe and the Touring has just recently launched this past week in Europe will add to the increases.
Other global records show The BMWi/BMWiPerformance models are increasing leading to the eventual goal of selling 100,000 units of BMWi/BMWiPerformance models in 2017.

The 7er is performing extremely well globally the latest iPerformance model performing extremely well plus we have an increase due to the M760Li arriving in many markets. Europe will also be offered entry diesel models within the next few months also.

It's in its death throes but the X3 continues to perform even though we are two weeks away from the all new G01 model which will also offer iPerformance PHEV for the first time. A prelude to the forthcoming X3 EV model.

Later this summer we will see the 6er Gran Turismo, M5 and i3 LCI including the sportier i3S model.

Global increases are due to the 5er, 7er, X models and the 4er LCI. In 2018 BMW will launch all new generations of the 3er and X5 as well as the all new 8er Coupe and a new concept for the compact segment for BMW the X2 and X4.

Once again Global sales are lead by China.

[doug_999]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

Any salesman will have a "reason" or an "excuse" for just about any circumstance you can dream up about their product...hence the reason the person is good at selling (talking BS with people).

Wow - because I used the term "salesman" - his comments are taken as making reasons and/or excuses?

Talk about biased. Sad that you group them all into one big bunch.

The fact is, his points are valid - even if he was/is not one of those "sales people"

You can "dream" about the old 7, but that's not today's market - especially with a manual, which you can't even get in a 5-series here today.

[conradb]

Yeah, YTD down 11%. It's actually down 17.3% YTY

[conradb]

Originally Posted by BMWZ4

Next few posts will be how BMW is missing the mark and this is my last BMW and I'm going Merc in my next car....blah blah blah....same comments every month.

I now own all American. I put my money where my mouth is. Quality, warranty, and offers are all lacking.

[Imola.ZHP]

Turned in my leased i3 REx at the end of April, not sure if another lease would have had me in April or May sales but I am waiting for the final info on the Tesla Model 3, as well as the upcoming i3-s. At that point I can make a decision between the two or picking up a second CPO i3 for pennies on the original MSRP dollar. Nothing excites me anymore about BMW cars, even the M's after driving electric for two years. Stuck driving a 2007 CRV for now, at least it is paid for. No car payments will allow me to stick some extra cash into the house and into the retirement accounts.

[R N M]

With the dollar being so strong it would be idiotic for BMW not to want to sell cars here and focus on other markets.

This makes zero economic sense.

Just to add - I had extended test drive in a 540i Msport Xdrive.
While its a nice car, in no way was it even marginally better than my former 535i msport. Although people praise the new interior, I find it no better than my F10 and the fake leather dashboard looks embarrassingly cheap!

[Ali Shiralian]

Could it be that their cars all look the same with the same boring interiors? Do some actually try different brands like Jag, Alfa or even Lexus and see better value?

BMW needs to bring some excitement into their selections or they'll loose market share even more...

[Dethsupp0rt]

Originally Posted by firedown31

Residuals are probably the biggest deciding factor, and those have dropped while the MF has gone up.

The best time to buy a 3/4 series was March of 2015 (lowest MF and highest residuals).

Yep, picked mine up in April '15 (residual was still 65%). Residuals are down, and they're killing MSDs. They're really losing their advantage over their German rivals, and dynamically, everything is catching up/surpassing them.