[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

No?
A customer of mine, who is one of the world leaders on large scale hydraulics (I'm not talking about hydraulics on an excavator, but 60 meter long rams on $5 billion oil drillin ships etc; very very expensive equipment, they are from origin a dutch company (parental holding is german since a decade or 2 I think).
Guess where they also have production plants...
China, India...
If you dont think large high quality stuff is made in china, you've not been there
Thing is, all design, quality control, expertise is controlled by westerners.
They make stuff all over the world because those drilling ships (and other products) are also build in those parts.
Shipbuilding is rapidly moving from south korea to china.
2 of the largest shipyard/manufactureres are chinese ones. There are 2 japanese ones in the top 10 and the rest is south korean.
NONE is US based. NONE is european based.

That is specialized B2B industry that likely partially exists because transporting such large apparti to oil fields costs more than producing it regionally. Consumers have no perception of this.

Also: large doesn't necessarily mean quality. China has had the manpower to maintain a shipbuilding industry that could crush all others several times over for at least a couple of hundred years. But China has never been a serious seafaring nation -- and it still isn't. It's only become one since WWII out of perceived necessity. Meanwhile, Japan always has been one. So has Korea. So has the U.S. So has the UK. So has France ...

... but I digress. The only two reasons China can build ships of any import now is because it has to to maintain its export logistics, and it has manpower to spare that have now been trained by foreign interests. Neither reason compels China to make great ships. It simply compels it to make a whole buttload of 'em.

[M3 Geezer]

What the hell are they thinking? The history of poor quality control is long and deeply imbedded in Chinese manufacturing. (Think Chinese bolt fiasco or faked steel chemistry documentation) Japan was wise enough to learn from Demming in the early 60's. Their cars are now reliable and consistent quality. I will keep the one BMW product I own and not buy another unless the parts origin and assembly location can be clearly established to be German.

[motex]

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

That is specialized B2B industry that likely partially exists because transporting such large apparti to oil fields costs more than producing it regionally. Consumers have no perception of this.

Also: large doesn't necessarily mean quality. China has had the manpower to maintain a shipbuilding industry that could crush all others several times over for at least a couple of hundred years. But China has never been a serious seafaring nation -- and it still isn't. It's only become one since WWII out of perceived necessity. Meanwhile, Japan always has been one. So has Korea. So has the U.S. So has the UK. So has France ...

... but I digress. The only two reasons China can build ships of any import now is because it has to to maintain its export logistics, and it has manpower to spare that have now been trained by foreign interests. Neither reason compels China to make great ships. It simply compels it to make a whole buttload of 'em.

Its very simple.
If you want a 400m oil tanker, or a similar large container carrier, no company in the US or Europe probably can help you.
You HAVE to go to a S. korean, japanese or chinese company.
As 2 out of 10 largest shipping yards are now chinese (and have only been around for 2 decades, all Korean/japanese ones are much older), within 10 years you probably can ONLY get such things in either S. korea or China.
You said that china wasnt able to produce such things. You clearly havent been there or dealt with companies who have subsidiaries there and are in such businesses.
China now also is starting its own aircraft service.
The president of Airbus (large european conglommorate, you may know them, currently the largest aircraft producer if judged by annual production numbers) has already said in an interview: currently Boeing is their largest competitor; within 20 years it will be Comac (chinese builder).
Its time to open your eyes and realise that china is gaining much much faster than you're expecting.

[Teutonic]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Fact of the matter is that a lot of parts are already china made.
Your bosch O2 sensors, or your INA multirib pulleys, or your lemforder rubber bushings, or your knecht oil filter housing, or your behr thermostat, or your sharp infotainment display or.... (going on for hours...)

All very old traditional german companies (obviously not sharp from my examples), that still have loads of production in germany, but more and more of those consumer products are made in china but carry a traditional german brand name (all those companies also make commercial or military grade products at a more premium price, which is usually still german made).
If you have a 'german made' car, it means its (partially) assembled in germany....with chinese parts. (more complex parts like heaterboxes come pre-assembled obviously)

No, that's not true. The majority of the parts are made in different Europe countries under extreme supervision of the manufacturer. For example the wood trims, electric cables, circuitry, switches, boards, and many plastic parts, etc. for Mercedes and BMW are made in Romania.
However, (just to be clear, not racism at all), I will not buy a vehicle made in China regardless of BMW's assurance. If that happens, I will move to a different brand. I know, you might hear that a lot but I always put my money where my mouth is.
Firstly, maybe bad luck but everything I ever owned Chinese did not last the warranty so my confidence in their products is at the bottom. In a German car you find commitment, ethics and inner conscience.
Secondly, call me a snob but I do take pride in owning GERMAN MADE cars, why should I pay premium for a car made in China? BMW can scream whatever wants, that is not German anymore so, anybody else can have it.

[JJSchmooze]

Originally Posted by tommytexter

People just want to bitch about everything. Same equipment and training, u think Chinese workers are worse than South Africans? Lazy Americans?

Originally Posted by tommytexter

People just want to bitch about everything. Same equipment and training, u think Chinese workers are worse than South Africans? Lazy Americans?

I highly suggest you watch this video, and take a close look at the Chinese manufacturers name btw. Yep, that's Brilliance alright!!!!!!!! HINT: BMW BRILLIANCE. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Cuz5150]

Ha............BMW is gonna pull this:

1st, bring back the free maintenance warranthy 4/50K miles?

2nd raise the bumper/bumper warranty from 3/36 to
5 years/ 60K miles? or even a 7/70,000

3ed free car loaners

The general public will eat this up in a heart beat

China what?

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by Tracus

Secondly, call me a snob but I do take pride in owning GERMAN MADE cars, why should I pay premium for a car made in China? BMW can scream whatever wants, that is not German anymore so, anybody else can have it.

You mean german assembled cars
I dont know if the majority of the parts is made in europe.
But fact is that probably ALL large OEMS have factories in china.
Mahle, INA/*** (schaeffler), ZF, Bosch, Hella, Magneti marelli, Rheinmetall you name it.
Give me 1 name of a large automotive OEM that doesnt have a production plant in china.
And most switches and circuit boards, and certainly the components on that circuit board are definately from china. There are no factories in europe that make smd transtors, resistors, capacitors, chips, leds, displays, diodes etc. Thats all done in asia and mostly in china (complicated semiconductors a lot in malaysia_
So are probably all the cables (the strands) and all connectors made in china.
The individual looms may be assembled in romania, but the parts certainly arent.
So what you think by 'manufacturing' is mostly 'assemby'.
Face it, your car is full of chinese parts.

[BMWI6]

This is terrible. The sad thing is that NONE of the cost savings will be passed onto the consumer. And whoever says quality will be the same is simply ignorant, the plants are built with cost-cutting in mind. The local sourced parts and materials will not be the same.

[M3 Geezer]

Life Is Too Short To Drive Chinese Cars!

[Acexxon]

Originally Posted by M3 Geezer

Life Is Too Short To Drive Chinese Cars!

The M cars will never be manufactured in China, so you are safe

Anyway, let me give you guys some insights since I am based in Taiwan and do business in the manufacturing industry.

Many parts in our cars are manufactured in Asia (China, Taiwan, Japan, etc...). They get shipped over back to Germany for assembly. This is not just in the Auto Industry, it's the same for most of the major manufacturing industries. Obviously it all comes down to costs.

So, what does it mean to have Chinese built BMWs? Basically it'd just be cars assembled together by the Chinese factory... The difference? It all comes down to how well the Quality Check processes are implemented and carried out.

Being a Taiwanese-Canadian, I personally would not buy Chinese built BMW's, I think this is an awful strategy from BMW, it'd really hurt their brand image and how everyone will then interpret BMW as a German-Chinese car brand...

And really? Volvo? How many people actually care about Volvo coming out from China? It's not even on most people's shopping list. The reason why Volvo was sold to China because obviously it wasn't making enough money for Ford, which means people are not buying Volvos...

In the future, just stick to the cars that are produced outside of China The Germans will keep those in Germany as they don't want the Chinese to learn the know-how.

[BimmerMat135]

Premium price, cheap assembly that sound right i guess. You can go ahead i won't buy them anyway.

[_bdiddyb_]

Couldn't be any worse than what we have now. The plastic parts in my 2013 335i are falling apart. It was made in Africa.

[dzvero]

please dont sell them in usa

[E60MKF]

BMWs made in India (for the indian market) are of subpar quality to the point that people now pay the premium(partly due to taxes) to have their bmw manufactured in germany rather the ones on offer that are made in India.

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by AFA

The number of proud racists on this threat is really telling and very sad.

Racist openly discuss how they won't buy Chinese products!

I am guessing most are Americans that have succumbed to the Trump effect....

I am so sick people bringing up Trump.

Is there something else you can rent space in your head about?

Maybe not.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by ORIGIN M.

I am so sick people bringing up Trump.

Is there something else you can rent space in your head about?

Maybe not.

Agreed. How is wanting a quality built German vehicle made in Germany being racist.

[AFA]

Originally Posted by ORIGIN M.

I am so sick people bringing up Trump.

Is there something else you can rent space in your head about?

Maybe not.

Too bad. The fact is when your leader makes racists, misogynist, prejudiced comments, that affects how people behave. Americans are overtly proud and vocal of their racism now and do not feel the shame that they would have a year ago. Most of racist comments about Chinese on this thread are from Americans. You don't want people commenting on Trump and the effect it has had on every aspect of the American people's behavior and conduct? Then you shouldn't have voted for a racist and made him your President.

Incidentally, it is of note to see that Trump's attack on speech and press has also affected people like you. Not only you feel obliged to tell people what to say and what not to say, you also tell people what to "think" in their "heads". Hahaha. Even he hasn't gone that far.

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by AFA

Too bad. The fact is when your leader makes racists, misogynist, prejudiced comments, that affects how people behave. Americans are overtly proud and vocal of their racism now and do not feel the shame that they would have a year ago. Most of racist comments about Chinese on this thread are from Americans. You don't want people commenting on Trump and the effect it has had on every aspect of the American people's behavior and conduct? Then you shouldn't have voted for a racist and made him your President.

Incidentally, it is of note to see that Trump's attack on speech and press has also affected people like you. Not only you feel obliged to tell people what to say and what not to say, you also tell people what to "think" in their "heads". Hahaha. Even he hasn't gone that far.

You need to calm down.

[Teutonic]

Originally Posted by ORIGIN M.

I am so sick people bringing up Trump.

Is there something else you can rent space in your head about?

Maybe not.

Save your breath. It is not worth it.

[aozer]

Originally Posted by AFA

Too bad. The fact is when your leader makes racists, misogynist, prejudiced comments, that affects how people behave. Americans are overtly proud and vocal of their racism now and do not feel the shame that they would have a year ago. Most of racist comments about Chinese on this thread are from Americans. You don't want people commenting on Trump and the effect it has had on every aspect of the American people's behavior and conduct? Then you shouldn't have voted for a racist and made him your President.

Incidentally, it is of note to see that Trump's attack on speech and press has also affected people like you. Not only you feel obliged to tell people what to say and what not to say, you also tell people what to "think" in their "heads". Hahaha. Even he hasn't gone that far.

You're a moron. Don't classify an entire country of people based on one person.

P.S. the most openly racist people I've ever encountered have been of Asian descent. I lived in China, I know how fucking backwards and racist those people really are.

[evolution80]

Originally Posted by Matski

Do these crap components end up in production vehicles... if so, whatever you say about China, the fault is of the people that let it through, not of the people that make it.

in these cases parts were outsourced because of cost considerations- obviously the quality is very bad then

good quality comes from china if the price is right- see high end outdoor jackets for example or apple products - but most of the time scumbags are trying to maximize their profits and cut corners quality wise