[FogCityM3]

Assembly is where the most of the value-added labor exists and it doesn't only include direct jobs but indirect jobs at other companies/suppliers where proximity and just-in-time inventory systems are critical to the supply chain.

BMW itself has worked with academic institutions and estimates have shown that a BMW job at the Spartanburg facility has a 4.0x force labor multiplier to South Carolina. In this estimate a couple of years ago, it results in ~$17BN of economic output to the state.

https://www.bmwusfactory.com/wp-cont...mpact-2014.pdf

I have personally toured the Spartanburg facility and the local impact to jobs was something that was touted prominently by the plant.

Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck

Because they're not. They are building a new 3-series plant in Mexico to augment current facilities in Germany and China. Trump is now threatening to tax cars coming from Mexico because he believes that they should be building plants in the US.

What no one seems to understand in these threads is how the auto manufacturing sector in North America actually works. There is no such thing as a Mexican built, or Canadian made, or US manufactured car. The final assembly plant will, obviously, be in one of those three countries, but the supply chain is completely integrated across all three countries. Since 1965 there has been tariff free trade in the manufacturing of cars between Canada and the US. That was extended to Mexico with NAFTA, but there have long been Canadian made engines in US assembled cars and US made transmissions in cars "built" in Oshawa. What has changed is that the number of third party suppliers with equally integrated trilateral supply chains. A car allegedly built in Mexico could very well contain 35% American made components and 25% Canadian sourced assemblies. Those various components will themselves be multilateral in their manufacture and assembly. This whole notion of placing import taxes based on the final assembly location of a automobile within the NAFTA zone is somewhere between nonsensical and moronic. The net effect will actually be to cost all three countries auto manufacturing jobs and severely disrupt the industry. After bailing out the Big Three, Canadian and American governments are going to watch them lurch back into crisis because of stupid trade policy.

Hopefully the slim Senate majority and the presence of some Republicans who understand trade will serve to fetter the sheer stupidity of what Trump is proposing.

[coo-pey]

Originally Posted by jackelliott

...For some reason the Germans don't understand that Americans desire "made in Germany" ... Not simply "designed in Germany".

As an example I've been to a certain gun manufacturers US and German production facilities. They theoretically produce the same guns but the German variants are slightlyyyyyy more accurate - though no one there would ever reveal it publicly. Different industry but parallels remain to German vs US production. Can't even imagine Mexican.

Very true about the guns. I have owned a few from Germany and some from the same company but produced in the US. Same for a certain Austrian company. Should be the same, but it's not.

I have also owned a few vehicles where the final assembly point was Mexico. They just never felt on point and were the subject to leaks and squeaks that could never get fixed. And I will say this, when I buy a German car, I expect it not to be made in Mexico. But to be fair, my Z3 and Z4 were both made in SC, and they did/do have some fit issues.


I personally do not think your average 3 series lease signer (what is it, like 60% now of all BMW's are leased?) will give a damn. They want to show the roundel and that's it. Either that, or they go for one of the ridiculous 84 month auto loans I have read about.

As a side note: I wonder what the cars on the road would like like if 1) there were no lease options 2) people actually had to SAVE up and buy a car outright or could only finance for 48 months tops. Perhaps luxury would truly be luxury.

[MightyMouseTech]

You would think that the assembly county does not make a difference, but being in the trade, I can say it makes a huge difference.

When I first started, most Honda/Acura were still built in Japan, except for a lot of Civics which were assembled here in Ontario, Canada. Never, ever, EVER saw an assembly issue, we would not even question it.

Then we started getting vehicles assembled in Alabama. OMG! So many issues. It is like nobody even gives a $%^%k. Apparently, only 1 out of 10 vehicles coming off the line were good enough to ship without having to fix something. Out of those 1 of 10, nearly every single one we got had some assembly issue. And we are talking things like the exhuast system was not actually attached, or one time I found at least 100 body clips jammed into a rear speaker housing. We get vehicles missing all the proper relays all the time. We had about 50 vehicles (just at our own dealership) that were missing the relays for the heated seats. They just forgot to install them.

Now we are getting vehicles with wiring harnesses assembled in China and Mexico, and the quality is plummeting. Have had to repair so many issues with improperly assembled harnesses. Missing weather plugs and seals causing corroded wires, water in connectors and shorted out plugs. And this is on cars that are less than a year old!

We see engines that were assembled missing piston rings, missing clips on the wrist pins, it just goes on and on.

And this whole Takata airbag issue is due to poor quality of assembly at the Mexican Takata factory.

[Maynard]

Finally, a reason to like Trump (OK, we'll call it disliking him a little less):

Today when this story hit the news, my wife says 'makes me want to go buy a BMW right now!'. Purely by coincidence, I happened to have brochures for the newest 2 series handy, since we really need a matched set. I know it is crass opportunism, but that is how politics works.

And didn't I hear that BMW is actually now the largest auto exporter in North America? If so WTF is he complaining about - should be goosing GM, Ford, and FCA to get off their duffs and open a few plants of their own (oh, right, they already OUTSOURCED most of their manufacturing, and actually did take US jobs away - better find a foreign patsy like those damned Mexicans, or perhaps an unattractive but intelligent female politician....).

[SportySpice]

Originally Posted by coo-pey

Very true about the guns. I have owned a few from Germany and some from the same company but produced in the US. Same for a certain Austrian company. Should be the same, but it's not.

I have also owned a few vehicles where the final assembly point was Mexico. They just never felt on point and were the subject to leaks and squeaks that could never get fixed. And I will say this, when I buy a German car, I expect it not to be made in Mexico. But to be fair, my Z3 and Z4 were both made in SC, and they did/do have some fit issues.


I personally do not think your average 3 series lease signer (what is it, like 60% now of all BMW's are leased?) will give a damn. They want to show the roundel and that's it. Either that, or they go for one of the ridiculous 84 month auto loans I have read about.

As a side note: I wonder what the cars on the road would like like if 1) there were no lease options 2) people actually had to SAVE up and buy a car outright or could only finance for 48 months tops. Perhaps luxury would truly be luxury.

Wow, that was a pretty snobby comment you snuck in at the end there. Sorry we peons are diluting your precious luxury brand. I bought my car because I like driving it. I have a history of keeping my cars for a really long time so it's worth it to me to buy something I love. I also like to think that how I pay for it is my concern. There are plenty of fancy brands out there if you want exclusivity. BMW builds a lot of cars and it seems that they have no problem with selling them to the masses who are willing to cough up the cash, easily or otherwise. Sorry for the jack. Was hard to not comment on this.

[Paul-Bracq-BMW]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

You would think that the assembly county does not make a difference, but being in the trade, I can say it makes a huge difference.

When I first started, most Honda/Acura were still built in Japan, except for a lot of Civics which were assembled here in Ontario, Canada. Never, ever, EVER saw an assembly issue, we would not even question it.

Then we started getting vehicles assembled in Alabama. OMG! So many issues. It is like nobody even gives a $%^%k. Apparently, only 1 out of 10 vehicles coming off the line were good enough to ship without having to fix something. Out of those 1 of 10, nearly every single one we got had some assembly issue. And we are talking things like the exhuast system was not actually attached, or one time I found at least 100 body clips jammed into a rear speaker housing. We get vehicles missing all the proper relays all the time. We had about 50 vehicles (just at our own dealership) that were missing the relays for the heated seats. They just forgot to install them.

Now we are getting vehicles with wiring harnesses assembled in China and Mexico, and the quality is plummeting. Have had to repair so many issues with improperly assembled harnesses. Missing weather plugs and seals causing corroded wires, water in connectors and shorted out plugs. And this is on cars that are less than a year old!

We see engines that were assembled missing piston rings, missing clips on the wrist pins, it just goes on and on.

And this whole Takata airbag issue is due to poor quality of assembly at the Mexican Takata factory.

Then it raises the question: don't car manufacturers have quality control at each process of the build?? I can understand that such things happened in the past, but nowadays???

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by coo-pey

Very true about the guns. I have owned a few from Germany and some from the same company but produced in the US. Same for a certain Austrian company. Should be the same, but it's not.

I have also owned a few vehicles where the final assembly point was Mexico. They just never felt on point and were the subject to leaks and squeaks that could never get fixed. And I will say this, when I buy a German car, I expect it not to be made in Mexico. But to be fair, my Z3 and Z4 were both made in SC, and they did/do have some fit issues.


I personally do not think your average 3 series lease signer (what is it, like 60% now of all BMW's are leased?) will give a damn. They want to show the roundel and that's it. Either that, or they go for one of the ridiculous 84 month auto loans I have read about.

As a side note: I wonder what the cars on the road would like like if 1) there were no lease options 2) people actually had to SAVE up and buy a car outright or could only finance for 48 months tops. Perhaps luxury would truly be luxury.

Found the guy who never uses a credit card, pays for everything in cash, and thinks he's a financial genius because of it.

Also, companies couldn't care less where you expect their product to be made. Especially if it's over a Z4, the car that sells dozens...DOZENS a year.

[BeEmVe]

Originally Posted by Maynard

And didn't I hear that BMW is actually now the largest auto exporter in North America? If so WTF is he complaining about - should be goosing GM, Ford, and FCA to get off their duffs and open a few plants of their own (oh, right, they already OUTSOURCED most of their manufacturing, and actually did take US jobs away - better find a foreign patsy like those damned Mexicans, or perhaps an unattractive but intelligent female politician....).

In general more jobs have been lost due to automation than outsourcing:

https://www.ft.com/content/dec677c0-...5-95d1533d9a62

[pukicabuki]

This thread is certainly worth a chuckle....

Everyone stating that would never buy a BMW made in Mexico are being a little silly. I remember back when my wife and I ordered our F30 335i. They were either being produced in Germany or South Africa. There were guys willing to wait months extra on their orders because they wanted a German build slot because their perception was that the cars were better if they came from Germany. The funny thing was that the South African built cars had higher initial build quality and fewer defects.

I work in supply chain for a major OEM that has 3 manufacturing facilities in the US and 2 in Mexico. Both of our Mexico plants have the highest build quality and fewer defects than the US. Most of our Mexican suppliers have fewer quality issues as well.

[GottWhat]

Originally Posted by pukicabuki

This thread is certainly worth a chuckle....

Everyone stating that would never buy a BMW made in Mexico are being a little silly. I remember back when my wife and I ordered our F30 335i. They were either being produced in Germany or South Africa. There were guys willing to wait months extra on their orders because they wanted a German build slot because their perception was that the cars were better if they came from Germany. The funny thing was that the South African built cars had higher initial build quality and fewer defects.

I work in supply chain for a major OEM that has 3 manufacturing facilities in the US and 2 in Mexico. Both of our Mexico plants have the highest build quality and fewer defects than the US. Most of our Mexican suppliers have fewer quality issues as well.

I agree. For example, Ram trucks are either final assembled within 20 miles of me in Metro Detroit or in Mexico. The trucks are randomly shipped to dealerships. There can be two identical trucks next to each other at a Metro Detroit dealership lot (or any city) but one is made in Metro Detroit and the other is from Mexico. If all references to point of origin were removed, you would not be able to tell which truck came from which country.

[GottWhat]

Here is a decent read: What Is NAFTA And What Could Happen If Trump Dismantles It?

In a nutshell, the 35% tax is likely not going to happen.

[pemz]

Originally Posted by Paul-Bracq-BMW

Germans were not buying Chevrolets at the same rate, he said, making the business relationship an unfair one-way street. He said he was an advocate of free trade, but not at any cost.

The BMW spokeswoman said the company was "very much at home in the U.S.," employing directly and indirectly nearly 70,000 people in the country.

It's only logical Germans not buying Chevies. They stink, I mean the chevies!

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by pemz

It's only logical Germans not buying Chevies. They stink, I mean the chevies!

Seriously. That would be like 'mericuhans buying Tata's for the same price as Chevys.

[coo-pey]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

Found the guy who never uses a credit card, pays for everything in cash, and thinks he's a financial genius because of it.

Also, companies couldn't care less where you expect their product to be made. Especially if it's over a Z4, the car that sells dozens...DOZENS a year.

Found the guy who likes to assume how others live...

I use the hell out of credit cards, and at the end of the billing cycle, I send a check to pay it off. Thus, reaping that sweet reward of points / cash. Hell, cash in very rarely in my wallet.

It was a simple observation about 84 month loans and people financing their lifestyle. To be perfectly fair, this observation was learned the very hard way by being incredibly stupid as a young man.

[coo-pey]

Originally Posted by SportySpice

Wow, that was a pretty snobby comment you snuck in at the end there. Sorry we peons are diluting your precious luxury brand. I bought my car because I like driving it. I have a history of keeping my cars for a really long time so it's worth it to me to buy something I love. I also like to think that how I pay for it is my concern. There are plenty of fancy brands out there if you want exclusivity. BMW builds a lot of cars and it seems that they have no problem with selling them to the masses who are willing to cough up the cash, easily or otherwise. Sorry for the jack. Was hard to not comment on this.

Dude, chill out. I drive a 10 year old BMW. I personally could not afford a car north of 50 grand. I'm not exactly swimming in cash. However, I used to work at a fairly well paying position and my peers were deep in debt trying to out do each other. Buy what you think you can afford.

[vladberca]

Built quality is related to quality responsibles from that plant.
There are claims all over the world and engineers that have to solve them.
New products have guarantee.
During these days a lot of factories transfer the production lines from Western Europe (especially Germany) to the East, like Romania.
There are 2 factors that influence this trend: lower cost for production, but also a very good quality level of the entire work.

[jpnh]

Originally Posted by vladberca

Built quality is related to quality responsibles from that plant.
There are claims all over the world and engineers that have to solve them.
New products have guarantee.
During these days a lot of factories transfer the production lines from Western Europe (especially Germany) to the East, like Romania.
There are 2 factors that influence this trend: lower cost for production, but also a very good quality level of the entire work.

Build quality issues rarely manifest themselves in a normal warranty period unless they are extreme these days

If you only keep a vehicle for a couple years then chances are you will not see an issue

If however you're a freak like me that drives DD's to 300k or more then its a concern.

There are good reasons why most of what is happening in third world countries is limited to "assembly" of larger components with fine tolerances (engines, transmissions/etc manufactured in US/Germany/Poland/etc) and final assembly is limited to Mexico

Not a chance in hell I would ever purchase a vehicle with an engine manufactured in Mexico or some other third world country

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by coo-pey

Dude, chill out. I drive a 10 year old BMW. I personally could not afford a car north of 50 grand. I'm not exactly swimming in cash. However, I used to work at a fairly well paying position and my peers were deep in debt trying to out do each other. Buy what you think you can afford.

Get off my lawn peasant!

I bought my Z4 about 10 years ago and have had absolutely no issues with anything. Love that it was American built as well. I would get a German built car solely for the experience of European delivery and driving it on the Autobahn... otherwise I think the SC plant does a great job.

[Paul-Bracq-BMW]

Hawkeye fecurtis : Please say civil in your debates.

To all Bimmerpost members, please do not get personal or you will be moderated.

Thanks and regards.

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by Paul-Bracq-BMW

Hawkeye fecurtis : Please say civil in your debates.

To all Bimmerpost members, please do not get personal or you will be moderated.

Thanks and regards.

Humor doesn't translate well it seems.

[Chihuahua]

I would like to propose an 8000% tariff on all FWD BMWs attempting to enter the US.


#NotMyBimmer

[GottWhat]

Originally Posted by Kyle B

I would like to propose an 8000% tariff on all FWD BMWs attempting to enter the US.