[Mywifes335]

Originally Posted by Mdrei

There are at least 2 collecting dust on the dealer lot here in Long Island below MSRP. And this is Long Island where people love to pay sticker, LOL.

Off topic. What does the word, "dink", mean?

Long Island qualifier. Lol.

[TopQuark]

It has something to do with Marketing. BMW 340i still wins over C450 here:

http://www.autoguide.com/car-compari...-benz-c450-amg

The C450 interior is horrible. Of course, this is a matter of personal taste.

[copmagnet82]

Originally Posted by RVS

People have too much stigma against BMW on this forum. If you don't like the current line up then get something else lol. Stop complaining.

agreed I think that over time people subconsciously get bored with a brand and start feeling that a brand can't do anything right. That's the time when one needs to switch brands. I see it happen on every forum; people just bitch about everything, nature of the beast. In fact, I'm in the process myself can't wait to get in my first BMW

[bodonx]

Originally Posted by Zirenz2006

I would argue the S class interior is horrible...much like the new C class interior

Design is subjective. But, if u say C class interior quality is less than 3-series, then I'm speechless.

Almost all reviews put C class interior as class leader by clear margin

[BMV///M3]

Interesting comments, I like bimmerpost cause people aren't afraid to voice their opinion. The E90/92 328, 335 series in MY OPINION has much better craftsmanship and quality than the F30's. It seems as if BMW just pumped out cars and lost that "it" factor.

Don't even get me started on the M3 coming with out back up camera standard, forcing people in the $3500 package in the M3/M4, this really bothers me.

Alas, even with all this complaining, my M3 finishes production 5-16

[Teutonic]

Originally Posted by Mdrei

The article said it clear. They pumped out cars to try and maintain the #1 position. They failed on 2 fronts:
1. flooded the dealers with cars that are not moving
2. misjudged the market forces, MB especially.
This is a clear sign that bean counters are in charge at BMW and things are about to get worse; why?

- the bread and butter 3 series is not pulling the weight it is supposed to. It's actually a failure.
- the new MB E class will wipe the floor with an already ageing 5 series.
- the 7 series came out 2 years after the S class and proves to be already at least 1 generation behind. The interior is crap compared to the S, among other things.
- the M brand is so diluted there is no more margin to be made on M Marketing. The days of M Motorsport and machines that could chase Porsche are long gone. Heck the M6 GC cannot keep up with the RS7.
- the cars value-to-cost ratio is total crap when compared to MB and Audi.

They milked it to the hilt and are starting to witness a massive crash. Case in point, I just ordered an Alpina B6 and got a way bellow invoice price without even asking; the dealer was practically begging me to place the order. There are discounted M3/M4s all over.

And Scott, the fact that the X3 sells does not imply that people are choosing it over the regular 3 series (that's BS). It's because, MB GLC just hit the market and the GLK was crap. Next year this time it will be a different picture, the GLC is a much better car.

All in all BMW needs to realize that value, not an emblem, sells. BMW needs to crash and return to its core; same cycle MB went through. Until than I will drive AMG and Porsche.

While I do share some facts, like diluting the M brand-, I must tell you that Mercedes is a big NO NO for me. They rust like crap. Literally.
No wonder, since they don't give their cars an anti-corrosive bath.
All the Mercedes that run in my area in snow country look like crap pretty early.
Also, the new Mercedes look is not for me. They look awful. Inside and out (personal opinion of course).

I will buy a 2002-2008 SL even now, but nothing from the new line is appealing to me.

Salut.

[Teutonic]

Originally Posted by autopal

I don't know how someone could look or sit in a 3 series, and then say the C class interior is horrible

I found it HORRIBLE. The BMW "Garmin" is better (I don't like the BMW one neither but is more chewable). Also not everybody loves the round air ducts; I for example hate them.
For example, the previous Audi A3 interior was nice, the new one makes me puke. Same for Mercedes.
The new "butterfly" taillights are also not very appealing to me; too feminine.

[N & M]

The C class was a major surprise to BMW. It cannot screw up the replacement. SUV might be strong but it cannot give away its heartland image product to competition.

[Dr. Who]

Most Drivetrains and Tech. are on par now across the board in what's being offered in the automotive industry.
It's basically all Marketing & Bells and Whistles And, maybe a little Brand loyalty as to what floats your boat
(& Ego) when it comes to buying a new car.

I've always bought into Engineering Awards and Race Heritage. The top two here, historically, have been
Porsche and BMW. That being put out there, 3 & 4 (including M's) series base interiors are Crap!

Cheap Plastic all over and no Finishing touches to cover, for example, rails, Bolt heads and Hinges.
And, if Audi can motorize their Display, even on their "3 series", Why are BMW's saddled with a static
half an "iPad" as almost an afterthought? C'mon, we're talking a "Luxury brand, here?!? "Base to "base",
Honda interiors are nicer and "Loaded", Mercedes C450 AMG & C63s interiors are (driven) much nicer
than BMW!

Now, this brings me to Why(?) I'm buying a new BMW. I can customize the hell out of it before it ever
reaches our shores! Next to Porsche (and much Cheaper), It has the most extensive Factory "bespoke"
possibilities of any Sports/Luxury car being offered today! And, I'm not a Prince in Loaded de Ville!
For me, the "Individual"program has no comparison and is BMW's Ultimate saving grace!

So, I personally intend on having the Ultimate Cockpit within a Driving Machine, which I like.

Cheers!

[R N M]

New BMWs have completely lost that special recipe that made them true driving machines for enthusiasts imo.
My F80 M3 is more of a luxury car than a sports sedan - yes its hugely capable and FAST but its not one of those generational cars like an E30 M3, E39 M5, E46 M3.
I think my old E92 335i still had that old BMW soul in it with amazing steering feel and the N54 engine that felt raw and crazy. It had a ton of personality.
The Fxx generation cars are just different - more luxury, way less sport. So far the Gxx generation is more of the same........

[DC-T]

Originally Posted by Zirenz2006

Civic has better interior than 3 series?

He didn't mean it literally. figurative as in, for the money you're paying, the dash in the 3 should be better, and the dash in the civic looks better than what you're paying.

I hope.

[bodonx]

Originally Posted by Dr. Who

Most Drivetrains and Tech. are on par now across the board in what's being offered in the automotive industry.
It's basically all Marketing & Bells and Whistles And, maybe a little Brand loyalty as to what floats your boat
(& Ego) when it comes to buying a new car.

I've always bought into Engineering Awards and Race Heritage. The top two here, historically, have been
Porsche and BMW. That being put out there, 3 & 4 (including M's) series base interiors are Crap!

Cheap Plastic all over and no Finishing touches to cover, for example, rails, Bolt heads and Hinges.
And, if Audi can motorize their Display, even on their "3 series", Why are BMW's saddled with a static
half an "iPad" as almost an afterthought? C'mon, we're talking a "Luxury brand, here?!? "Base to "base",
Honda interiors are nicer and "Loaded", Mercedes C450 AMG & C63s interiors are (driven) much nicer
than BMW!

Now, this brings me to Why(?) I'm buying a new BMW. I can customize the hell out of it before it ever
reaches our shores! Next to Porsche (and much Cheaper), It has the most extensive Factory "bespoke"
possibilities of any Sports/Luxury car being offered today! And, I'm not a Prince in Loaded de Ville!
For me, the "Individual"program has no comparison and is BMW's Ultimate saving grace!

So, I personally intend on having the Ultimate Cockpit within a Driving Machine, which I like.

Cheers!

Your reason is my exact reason I drive BMW one last time. Back in 2014, M5 had the best full leather interior (excl M6) without going to exotics brands.

Now, it's different story. Where MB is getting loose with their Designo programs, BMW is getting picky. For example, you cannot get alcantara on M3/M4 headliner. With too many models, their marketing dept try push points to upgrade to higher models.

[Herofmine]

I think 3 series interior quality is shitty compare to competitors, they really need to step up and change things, i think C63 AMG has way better interior quality than top of the line M3.

[cc3]

More confirmation strategy is wrong. Pile it high sell it cheap or at least cheaper !! BMW is in trouble unless it wakes up!

Weak product range, complacent about quality of opposition. In too many product niches. Fixated by need to sell more cars than MB - why!!! Front wheel drive a sales disaster. A few good products. M2 and i8 good examples. The once mighty 3 series is now just class average. Such a shame.

Too many examples of massive corporates falling into same traps. They start to believe their own spin and it becomes embedded in company. Will need a massive shake out of top management to stop the rot

[bluekn8286]

This is what happens when you keep creating tons of variants of the same car and not spend enough time improving the bread and butter cars (aka 3 and 5 series). The competition notices and starts making in-roads. Sorry, but I think it is time for BMW to cut down on models and start really focusing on making cars that represent the ultimate driving machine.

[kevinlevrone]

Originally Posted by MThree_driver

A m4 kept up with a aventador and gt3 around the ring recently...I think it's safe to say the M brand is the only solid thing in bmws lineup right now. (M performance brand I don't consider part of the m brand)

M cars that generate fake engine sounds through the car's speakers really shows that BMW does not understand their market anymore.

[BoosTonian]

Originally Posted by Mdrei

Saw the video also against the GT4 and SV, not conclusive whatsoever; it's all driver skill.

I have to disagree, there is nothing left of the M brand, just a label.
Look at the C63S AMG, the new MB E43 AMG, the RS5 and RS7. The M division is playing catch up in all segments and add to that a steep price. Sales prove my point. M cars used to sell around MSRP, now you get them for pretty much anything.

Where are the days where you could just get in and go Porsche hunting, like the e46 M3. Or where is the sound/performance of the e60 M5 that kept up with Ferraris, etc. MB announces bigger AMG engines, and BMW slaps Active Sound in the M and gives us a pig of an M5 and M6.

The scary part is that even Audi is handing it to the Ms. Caddy with the CTS-V is right here also. Crash and hopefully not burn.

Well let's be fair here, the new MBs are coming out after M has had their product out for years...almost 7 years when looking at the M5/M6. So when BMW releases the new M5/M6, that'll be a better comparison to the new Amg products.

I have smoked so many cars in my f80, I personally think the f80 is one of the best cars BMW currently makes. The design is aggressive and menacing, the engine is a marvel, and the performance of the car is outstanding. That cannot be denied. Active sound accounts for ~7% of total engine noise, so that's negligible. And it can be coded out/fuse pulled. People after doing that say they can hear the I6 sing.

I can't speak for every car in the lineup, I personally think the e9x gen felt like it was put together better than the f3x, but the tech doesn't come close. Performance wise, the 340 and the b58 are very very good and the 340 has edged out the c450 in multiple comparisons. So BMW still has good products, it's just not as numerous as it used to be because they have so many models. But the core ones are still right up there.

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by Mdrei

Well said!

Not well said its absolute nonsense.
Then forthcoming Legislation in regards to emissions forced BMW M to move to Turbo Technology. Which today they are very good at and are continually developing for the next phase of BMW M.

And you missed the point entirely. People are buying the equivalent SUV model from 3er to X3, C-GLC, A4 -Q5 it is the way the market works in North America that is why everybody else are selling SUVs over their original portfolio.
Cayennes are even selling more than the Panamera.
Its the state of the market and I do not for see in any change anytime soon.

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by cc3

More confirmation strategy is wrong. Pile it high sell it cheap or at least cheaper !! BMW is in trouble unless it wakes up!

Weak product range, complacent about quality of opposition. In too many product niches. Fixated by need to sell more cars than MB - why!!! Front wheel drive a sales disaster. A few good products. M2 and i8 good examples. The once mighty 3 series is now just class average. Such a shame.

Too many examples of massive corporates falling into same traps. They start to believe their own spin and it becomes embedded in company. Will need a massive shake out of top management to stop the rot

The front wheel drive vehicles are not a sales disaster where did you hear this nonsense from?
The 2er Active Tourer and Gran Tourer are the best selling 2er models globally.
They are also responsible for first time BMW vehicle sales.
We see rises for these vehicles every month since launch. The Active Tourer since launch in 2014 achieved its 100,000 unit goal ahead of the equivalent Mercedes-Benz B-Klasse which took two years to reach 100,000 units.

We now manufacture the Active Tourer in China where it has had equal success.
The whole point of the UKL+ is to provide profitability to MINI something which was not successful over previous MINI generations. The money was made by MINIs multiple personalisation options.

The upcoming China Sedan is projected to be a huge success with early clinics already excited and have placed orders for the new car which launches at the end of the year.

Contrary to everybody's opinion because we are not doing what everybody else is doing BMW is not in trouble.
We are in the opening stages of the full refresh of the model line, and more importantly by the time SUV models reach their global high by 2019. The full BMW X line will have been renewed,refreshed and expanded.

[Zirenz2006]

Originally Posted by bodonx

Design is subjective. But, if u say C class interior quality is less than 3-series, then I'm speechless.

Almost all reviews put C class interior as class leader by clear margin

I guess a busy interior with a bunch of silver bits is considered upscale

Horrible tacked on screen..BMW screen looks like it belongs the way the dash wraps around it

[Imola.ZHP]

Originally Posted by Taran.J

So how much less for a I3?

I3's have been cheap to lease for over a year now. There is a great FB group if you are looking for more info.

I love mine!

[overcoil]

At the mbworld.org forum read a post where the poster wonders why a more powerful C450 has similar performance to a 340xi? And the response quoted is "...I think BMW brings power to the wheels more effectively via better handling, transmission, and weight distribution..."