[tallshortguy]

Originally Posted by Blipit_

Let me know when BMW takes the S55 racing.

Sure thing, for street touring series, the S55 will certainly be used. I can definitely see them using a higher displacement version of the S55 in a future M4 GT cars. I'm not sure what you're attempting at anyway for an engine that has been out for a month.

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I don't really care about M, seriously I don't. So you can have the last word...

Clearly, no one is forcing you to post over half a dozen times about M. I'm just responding, have at it.

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by ///M ARMY

Kool story

Hey everyone it's that guy

[pgviper]

Originally Posted by ///M ARMY

Kool story

You spelt it wrong.

Kool -> Cool

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by tallshortguy

Sure thing, for street touring series, the S55 will certainly be used. I can definitely see them using a higher displacement version of the S55 in a future M4 GT cars. I'm not sure what you're attempting at anyway for an engine that has been out for a month.

An actual BMW factory team running the S55 or a S55 derived powerplant. Not some independent team in the Continental Tire series.

[tallshortguy]

Originally Posted by Blipit_

An actual BMW factory team running the S55 or a S55 derived powerplant. Not some independent team in the Continental Tire series.

As I said in the second sentence of my post, I wouldn't doubt the possibility of a larger displacement derived version of the S55, something closer to 4 liters, in future GT3 and above spec cars. Once again I'll ask, what exactly are you trying to go for in asking for the racing credentials of a motor that's been out for one month?

[spikes111]

More specs/numbers of 2015 mustang:

http://www.mustang6g.com

The 135 hp/liter of the ecoboost model is impressive but I wonder how strong the actual block is (for tuning).

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by tallshortguy

As I said in the second sentence of my post, I wouldn't doubt the possibility of a larger displacement derived version of the S55, something closer to 4 liters, in future GT3 and above spec cars. Once again I'll ask, what exactly are you trying to go for in asking for the racing credentials of a motor that's been out for one month?

Just so you know the E92 M3 GTR was revealed early 2008 and was testing well before that. BMW had intentions to go racing with the E92 from the onset. I don't see or hear anything about BMW going racing with the M4. I believe they will leave endurance racing and stick to DTM, which has zero to do with any road going BMW.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

Before that people said BMW forgot what "M" meant when they shoved a V8 in one.

Before that people said that BMW forgot what "M" meant when they had the gall to put a SMG in one (granted, I've read nothing good about those gearboxes, but they've been replaced by the DCG units).

And while not specific to M, many people thought BMW had lost its why when they started turbocharging their cars.

Things change, usually for the better. The M SUV's aren't bad for what they are, Porsche and MB makes high performance versions of their SUV's, should BMW not want a piece of that action? They sell like crazy and make the manufacturers a ton of money.

Nothing wrong with M making a V8...it was a great engine and certainly the best one along with a couple others short of a Porsche/Ferrari engine.

The problem with the new M cars is that they are the antithesis of what M once stood for which is why in comparos of best driver's car they are placing near the bottom. They used to follow the same formula as Porsche and Ferrari...more about the sum of the parts and more about the overall experience. Now, M cars are quick but the feel and precision has faded, especially in the case of the M5/6 which are numb, boring sleighs. The M3/4 arent quite there completely, but they are generally smaller versions of the M5/6 which isnt a good thing.

M SUVs and AMG SUVs actually dont sell very well though. BMW tried to enter a market (late) that Porsche already had total control over and still does when it comes to performance SUVs (now more so with the Macan).

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

Nothing wrong with M making a V8...it was a great engine and certainly the best one along with a couple others short of a Porsche/Ferrari engine.

Never said there was one, just remembering the sentiment from the "die hards" who thought that nothing other than an N/A high revving straight 6 belonged in an M3.

The problem with the new M cars is that they are the antithesis of what M once stood for which is why in comparos of best driver's car they are placing near the bottom. They used to follow the same formula as Porsche and Ferrari...more about the sum of the parts and more about the overall experience. Now, M cars are quick but the feel and precision has faded, especially in the case of the M5/6 which are numb, boring sleighs. The M3/4 arent quite there completely, but they are generally smaller versions of the M5/6 which isnt a good thing.

I agree with the M5 and M6, but I disagree with the M3 and M4. While it would take all of 2 seconds to find less than favorable reviews of the M5 and M6, I challenge you to find something less than overwhelmingly positive about the F80 and F82. Overall, the reviews have been extremely positive.

M SUVs and AMG SUVs actually dont sell very well though. BMW tried to enter a market (late) that Porsche already had total control over and still does when it comes to performance SUVs (now more so with the Macan).

You don't see them on every street corner like you commonly do with the Cayenne (at least those things are everywhere here, I can walk out to my office parking lot and find at least 3 of them there...and someone in this office had the lack of sense to actually buy a red X4 but I digress), but the M variants do sell well.

http://www.bmwblog.com/2011/02/02/bm...-2-percent-up/

It's a little old but BMW thinks the demand is still there today. It's why the F15 X5 M is slated for release next year sometime. BMW figures it squandered potential sales by being so late in releases the previous gen E70 X5 M.

Then there's the M2 in the pipeline too...

My point is that whenever people cry that a company is losing it's way, they just fail to realize that not everything can stay the same forever and companies have to evolve for the sake of innovation and safety and emissions regulations.

If BMW listened to die hards, the M3 would still have an N/A I6, could barely keep up with a standard 335i, and would have no creature comforts what so ever (since those things are merely distractions that add weight). It's as if they expect BMW to have their M cars target Mazda Miata shoppers who want a little more power.

Given the growth in sales year over year for BMW, they have little reason to change course now.

[BMW269]

Originally Posted by Blipit_

Just so you know the E92 M3 GTR was revealed early 2008 and was testing well before that. BMW had intentions to go racing with the E92 from the onset. I don't see or hear anything about BMW going racing with the M4. I believe they will leave endurance racing and stick to DTM, which has zero to do with any road going BMW.

BMW will go racing with the 2.0l I4 in DTM. BMW's GT3 car is the Z4 GT3, no more M3. So no M4 GT3. Z4 GT3 will be replaced by Z4 replacement, and compete against the RC-F GT3 and AMG GT3. Supra GT3 might also be there.

Originally Posted by fecurtis

My point is that whenever people cry that a company is losing it's way, they just fail to realize that not everything can stay the same forever and companies have to evolve for the sake of innovation and safety and emissions regulations.

If BMW listened to die hards, the M3 would still have an N/A I6, could barely keep up with a standard 335i, and would have no creature comforts what so ever (since those things are merely distractions that add weight). It's as if they expect BMW to have their M cars target Mazda Miata shoppers who want a little more power.

Given the growth in sales year over year for BMW, they have little reason to change course now.

Next 3 Series might have an I6 only in the M3.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

Never said there was one, just remembering the sentiment from the "die hards" who thought that nothing other than an N/A high revving straight 6 belonged in an M3.



I agree with the M5 and M6, but I disagree with the M3 and M4. While it would take all of 2 seconds to find less than favorable reviews of the M5 and M6, I challenge you to find something less than overwhelmingly positive about the F80 and F82. Overall, the reviews have been extremely positive.



You don't see them on every street corner like you commonly do with the Cayenne (at least those things are everywhere here, I can walk out to my office parking lot and find at least 3 of them there...and someone in this office had the lack of sense to actually buy a red X4 but I digress), but the M variants do sell well.

http://www.bmwblog.com/2011/02/02/bm...-2-percent-up/

It's a little old but BMW thinks the demand is still there today. It's why the F15 X5 M is slated for release next year sometime. BMW figures it squandered potential sales by being so late in releases the previous gen E70 X5 M.

Then there's the M2 in the pipeline too...

My point is that whenever people cry that a company is losing it's way, they just fail to realize that not everything can stay the same forever and companies have to evolve for the sake of innovation and safety and emissions regulations.

If BMW listened to die hards, the M3 would still have an N/A I6, could barely keep up with a standard 335i, and would have no creature comforts what so ever (since those things are merely distractions that add weight). It's as if they expect BMW to have their M cars target Mazda Miata shoppers who want a little more power.

Given the growth in sales year over year for BMW, they have little reason to change course now.

I agree with you by and large. M4 reviews have been good except when against the Porsches and the C7 but thats to be expected and also against the w204 c63s.

As far as the M SUVs, the market around them is still very soft. You can get very generous discounts because of it.


Things do need to change...every company must at least keep up with the times. I think that when a company has changed so rapidly and gone against everything they once stood for in BMWs case thats where the call out comes from. They used to say turbos were awful, and that using the same engine in all models like Merc does was attrocious, and look at what theyve become, just that. Other than the m3/4, nothing they currently make really stands out and even the m3/4 are going to have their hands full with their competition (c63 etc) considering every review of the current m4 vs the prev gen c63 it has lost.

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by Levi

BMW will go racing with the 2.0l I4 in DTM. BMW's GT3 car is the Z4 GT3, no more M3. So no M4 GT3. Z4 GT3 will be replaced by Z4 replacement, and compete against the RC-F GT3 and AMG GT3. Supra GT3 might also be there.

The 4-cylinder switch in DTM has been delayed to 2017. Question is what engine will the Z4 successor be running in GT competition.

[tallshortguy]

Originally Posted by Blipit_

Just so you know the E92 M3 GTR was revealed early 2008 and was testing well before that. BMW had intentions to go racing with the E92 from the onset. I don't see or hear anything about BMW going racing with the M4. I believe they will leave endurance racing and stick to DTM, which has zero to do with any road going BMW.

Are you saying testing hasn't been done on the S55 engine? I believe BMW has intentions of racing with their current M engines as well, seeing as there are examples of turbos in GT racing it's a very real possibility we see an S55 derived racing engine. Since all forseeable future engines V8 and below are going to be turbocharged for the road going version, they will need to start testing how they want to race derive these engines anyway.

Given the presence of endurance races in many of the major touring leagues, there's no chance they will unless they leave all of GT racing which won't happen.

[TSM330i]

What I think is comical is that the Mustang gained weight (the 87lbs is for the GT with the manual) and with GM switching the Camaro over to the ATS platform, it's set to lose significant weight. So we may end up with the Camaro actually weighing LESS than the new Mustang.

I'm sure GM is watching this while they're developing the new car. If the Camaro with the V8 uses the LT1, it should make about 445 - 450hp (must protect the Stingray) and it comes in around 3,600lbs it'll be a pretty quick car. Most articles I've read had the ATS as having the best chassis of any of the cars tested, so there is a stellar basis to start from.

Still, I'm not feeling the new Mustang. I think it looks too much like what a Honda Accord coupe would look like if it were RWD.

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by TSM330i

What I think is comical is that the Mustang gained weight (the 87lbs is for the GT with the manual) and with GM switching the Camaro over to the ATS platform, it's set to lose significant weight. So we may end up with the Camaro actually weighing LESS than the new Mustang.

I'm sure GM is watching this while they're developing the new car. If the Camaro with the V8 uses the LT1, it should make about 445 - 450hp (must protect the Stingray) and it comes in around 3,600lbs it'll be a pretty quick car. Most articles I've read had the ATS as having the best chassis of any of the cars tested, so there is a stellar basis to start from.

Still, I'm not feeling the new Mustang. I think it looks too much like what a Honda Accord coupe would look like if it were RWD.

Literally zero confirmation on the Chevrolet losing weight - let alone a significant amount like that. All rumors, just like the Mustang's completely unfounded rumor that it was set to lose 400lbs and 1.5 feet in length.

The Alpha platform is shared by the ATS and CTS, and latest rumors are talking about the Camaro sharing the CTS wheelbase. It would be an astronomical feat of engineering if the Camaro lost 400lbs while maintaining its current size and met updated crash standards. It would also be impressive if a V8 Camaro riding on the Alpha CTS's wheelbase, with a wider track, a V8, and upsized running gear, came close to the CTS's 3700-3800 pound curb weight.

The Mustang retained similar dimensions, is about 25% stiffer, has upsized running gear, and meets updated crash standards (meaning four additional airbags compared to the outgoing S197). Quite frankly, it's amazing that it only gained 87 pounds from V8 to V8.

[TSM330i]

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/201...py-photos-news

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by TSM330i

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/201...py-photos-news" rel="" target="_blank">http://<a href="http://www.caranddri...hotos-news</a>

Interesting. Completely clashes with GM Authority's recent rumor. All it confirms is that nothing is confirmed. Insideline had a "Ford Insider" make the dubious 400lb/1.5ft claims that turned out to be bogus, so I wouldn't trust a thing until you hear it from the mfr.

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2014/06/...-cadillac-cts/

[TSM330i]

Originally Posted by Year's_End

Interesting. Completely clashes with GM Authority's recent rumor. All it confirms is that nothing is confirmed. Insideline had a "Ford Insider" make the dubious 400lb/1.5ft claims that turned out to be bogus, so I wouldn't trust a thing until you hear it from the mfr.

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2014/06/...-cadillac-cts/

You're right. Everything out right now is only speculation. No one but actual GM employee's working on the project know exactly what is what.

Afterall, the Stingray is now using the aluminum frame that the Z06 and ZR1 used, but the base car weighs more than the old base C6 due to added content and safety equipment.

I do believe GM is trying to get the Camaro lighter than it was before. They've shown what lightening the Z/28 can do for performance. Car and Driver stated that the Z/28 is quicker than the Stingray for the Lightening Lap (coming out in October issue).

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by TSM330i

You're right. Everything out right now is only speculation. No one but actual GM employee's working on the project know exactly what is what.

Afterall, the Stingray is now using the aluminum frame that the Z06 and ZR1 used, but the base car weighs more than the old base C6 due to added content and safety equipment.

I do believe GM is trying to get the Camaro lighter than it was before. They've shown what lightening the Z/28 can do for performance. Car and Driver stated that the Z/28 is quicker than the Stingray for the Lightening Lap (coming out in October issue).

Solid point to bring up for sure. If the "bad weight" or dead weight can be reduced, and the "good weight" goes up (like chassis stiffening and safety equipment), it will probably break even in the end, but the end product should be superior in any objective measure.