[M Hybrid V8]

Originally Posted by e90335e36m3

It's all relevant. What I'm saying, in short, is that no matter what element of F1 you evaluate, you can make the "this is totally unfair" case. If everything unfair then what does difference does yesterday make? I'm in the let them race camp. Hamilton raced head to head and lost. A pace car win is not a win.

Then none of the drivers should've received any points at Spa.

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

....Nothing can counteract FIA conspiracy theory and suspicions of race director favoritism.

IMHO, I don't think Masi has favoritism for any team. He is just a complete $hit show at his job and wanted a green flag finish at all cost. Masi should be fired!!!

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Blindside_137

Can someone post the two minutes of Toto again? I can't find it

Originally Posted by M5Rick

^ Think it's been blocked.

[e90335e36m3]

Originally Posted by M2CS

Then none of the drivers should've received any points at Spa.

Sure, you can make that case. You may disagree but I think you're helping me make my point. Only in this sport is there constant discussion as to what is and what is not fair. Is their engine more powerful? Does their wing create more downforce? Was this/that penalty fair? Who tried to kill whom?

This is normal for each and every race. The boys over in Nascar don't seem to have as many of these issues. Neither is this an issue in all other sports, although there are instances too.

So again, if everything is unfair, why is the way this particular race ended so important? And you can't say because it decided the championship, since if we use the approach you suggest, who knows, go back 10 races and maybe Verstappen would've already won the championship by this point.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

''Toto,it's a motor race''

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

I think he took it pretty well...I would have lost my mind, found Masi and whipped his a$$.

But still glad VER won

[Bartledoo]

I think we can all just agree that the race should’ve been red flagged and restarted.

Who am I kidding, we can’t. Lol

[e90335e36m3]

Originally Posted by Onesie

He's not.
He's making a case for the safety car to leave, but leaving the cars in their positions with VER with blue flags.

I'm not sure you're understanding the differences here, while I can appreciate saying "it's never fair". It's why there's debate.

Well, then I'll revert to the simple logic. It's a motor race, finishing behind a pace car isn't racing, it's a cop out. Hamilton didn't get to cop out. Verstappen is the right champion.

[Killed by Death]

Wonder how well these will sell now

Can barely find VER gear here in the states. Anybody know a better source than speedgear.com? The Orange Army VER hat I want was at $359 on eBay

[M Hybrid V8]

Originally Posted by e90335e36m3

Sure, you can make that case. You may disagree but I think you're helping me make my point. Only in this sport is there constant discussion as to what is and what is not fair. Is their engine more powerful? Does their wing create more downforce? Was this/that penalty fair? Who tried to kill whom?

This is normal for each and every race. The boys over in Nascar don't seem to have as many of these issues. Neither is this an issue in all other sports, although there are instances too.

So again, if everything is unfair, why is the way this particular race ended so important? And you can't say because it decided the championship, since if we use the approach you suggest, who knows, go back 10 races and maybe Verstappen would've already won the championship by this point.

I don't really think you're directly debating fairness. F1 is a prototype series governed by a set of rules. It's the job of the teams to work under the rules to develop the best machine possible, that's what drives the technology to the cutting edge. Pushing the limit to the extreme of what's possible is not cheap and never will be. Any team that doesn't have a sufficient budget should consider a different series, maybe GT3 racing for example. It's totally fair if Redbull is able to work within the rules and develop an aero package that's vastly superior to other teams. Same for Mercedes developing a great engine, that's what the sport is all about... giving engineers room to innovate!

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

''Toto,it's a motor race''

*****

[e90335e36m3]

Originally Posted by M2CS

I don't really think you're directly debating fairness. F1 is a prototype series governed by a set of rules. It's the job of the teams to work under the rules to develop the best machine possible, that's what drives the technology to the cutting edge. Pushing the limit to the extreme of what's possible is not cheap and never will be. Any team that doesn't have a sufficient budget should consider a different series, maybe GT3 racing for example. It's totally fair if Redbull is able to work within the rules and develop an aero package that's vastly superior to other teams. Same for Mercedes developing a great engine, that's what the sport is all about... giving engineers room to innovate!

I think this argument is walking a fine line. Shall we just have 4 cars racing in perpetuity? Red Bull vs. Mercedes.

[3798j]

Hearing arguments for wanting race control to manipulate the end of races just seems so foreign. NASCAR was mentioned. That racing body had been one of the most popular bodies in motor sport 20 years ago. Then they started to manufacture the end of races...phantom yellows. They created other problems for themselves (too many races, too high ticket prices), but today NASCAR races in front of empty seats.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

*****

Final standings was Max 395.5 and Ham 387.5.
Max pole,race win and FL

[Artemis]

Other part of the circuit - final lap:

Previously posted:

[dmatre]

Seems like everyone except Toto knew that lapped cars should/would be cleared out.

Fernando:

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by dmatre

Seems like everyone except Toto knew that lapped cars should/would be cleared out.

Fernando:

Because initially it stated that no car was passing. That obviously changed very late.

[Killed by Death]

Interesting

[M5Rick]

[QUOTE=///M Power-Belgium;28355613]

What a laugh just watched the 6 o clock Sky news and nothing on the AD final GP not a sausage..I wonder why 1

[gatorfast]

Question to ponder - if the roles were reversed and Lewis was in P2 with fresh tires on the restart, would Max have let him overtake or would he have rammed him off the course?

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

Question to ponder - if the roles were reversed and Lewis was in P2 with fresh tires on the restart, would Max have let him overtake or would he have rammed him off the course?

For sure some sort of ramming would’ve occurred. Then we’d all be arguing about the post race penalties imposed haha.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

Question to ponder - if the roles were reversed and Lewis was in P2 with fresh tires on the restart, would Max have let him overtake or would he have rammed him off the course?

Any ramming had already been addressed by Masi warning drivers that to do so would lead to points loss with possible DQ.