[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Latest is that Merc are 'considering' withdrawing protest against FIA thinking of the integrity of the sport.

Clearer heads prevail, Toto’s ego took as massive hit and his reactions were not quite leadership-like. His boss was in the paddock so he must have emotionally lost it. Fighting this in court would only damage the brand for both F1 and Merc.

George Russell’s idiotic comment post-race, that is an entirely different situation. I was a fan until that comment. Dude needs to fight his own battles, Hammy can handle himself properly.

Unless of course Hammy told him if he wins 8WDC, George gets P1 for 2022. In that case, I completely understand.

[E90SLAM]

Originally Posted by Bubbles

George Russell’s idiotic comment post-race, that is an entirely different situation. I was a fan until that comment. Dude needs to fight his own battles, Hammy can handle himself properly.

I pretty much disregarded his comment entirely. Especially knowing where he will be driving next year.

Start earning you paycheck George.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by Bubbles

Clearer heads prevail, Toto’s ego took as massive hit and his reactions were not quite leadership-like. His boss was in the paddock so he must have emotionally lost it. Fighting this in court would only damage the brand for both F1 and Merc.

What I'd like to know is, was that final pit strategy call his

Sure sounded like it during his ultimate betrayal themed radio messages.

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by Onesie

Found Karen's?

Post 879

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

You mean all of it makes perfect sense. It's an impartial analysis, accurate portrayal of events, team strategy, and race director decisions. I'd be promoting the same regardless of outcome.

Your position was addressed at the start of the 2nd paragraph. Nothing can counteract FIA conspiracy theory and suspicions of race director favoritism.



Those rules being --

All lapped cars are allowed to unlap themselves. As Red Bull rightly argued, the 3 additional cars passing by wouldn't have made any difference. Distraction.

After the final car unlaps itself, there should be an additional lap under safety car. Stronger argument, but that regulation is overruled by 15.3, which gives the race director discretion on safety car deployment and withdrawal.

With the track cleared and ready to race, one lap to go for the WDC, the race director exercised that safety car discretion and it was the right call. 1-2 running order and tire condition was irrelevant to the decision to go motor racing.

You guys cannot seem to disassociate a personally unsatisfactory outcome from the validity of real-time race director decisions, which favored racing, and achieved what both teams strongly expressed was their preference for a green flag finish. The race director didn't have to artificially manufacture that conclusion, it was there for the taking and he jumped on it.

As said by Masi to Wolff "Toto it's a motor race''

[Robin_NL]

Cheers
Robin

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

As said by Masi to Wolff "Toto it's a motor race''

Disassociate HAM & VER fandom, contemporaneous pit strategies, tire condition, all such irrelevancies, and it really is that easy.

In that Toto meltdown video he had a lot to say, except I noted he didn't have a response to that basic assertion from Masi.

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

What I'd like to know is, was that final pit strategy call his

Sure sounded like it during his ultimate betrayal themed radio messages.

Interesting point, Toto seemed to become increasingly hands-on towards the end of the season. If Toto overruled the pit call that would surely explain his emotional reaction that appeared riddled with exasperation and regret.

[M Hybrid V8]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

As said by Masi to Wolff "Toto it's a motor race''

Redbull got their butt kicked during the actual motor race. Tossing out 48.12 to create an advantage Redbull scenario is anything but motor racing.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by Bubbles

Interesting point, Toto seemed to become increasingly hands-on towards the end of the season. If Toto vetoed the pit call that would surely explain his emotional reaction that appeared riddled with exasperation and regret.

There was plenty of time for that call to go all the way up the chain.

Merc pit crew were positioned, HAM passed by.

[e90335e36m3]

Love this back and forth bullshit argumentation. So it's ok to have huge disparities in money, technology, R&D capabilities, crashing other drivers in the race and getting away with it (ask Alex Albon), but it's not OK to have the race rules interpreted inconsistently or against how you believe they should be interpreted?
Get over it, nothing in this sport is fair or equal. Only inequality is. Therefore, I conclude the race outcome is fair and equal. Max is champion fair and square.

[M Hybrid V8]

Originally Posted by e90335e36m3

Love this back and forth bullshit argumentation. So it's ok to have huge disparities in money, technology, R&D capabilities, crashing other drivers in the race and getting away with it (ask Alex Albon), but it's not OK to have the race rules interpreted inconsistently or against how you believe they should be interpreted?
Get over it, nothing in this sport is fair or equal. Only inequality is. Therefore, I conclude the race outcome is fair and equal. Max is champion fair and square.

There is no sport without rules. The rules weren't vague nor misinterpreted, they were disregarded to favor RB and TV ratings. F1 is nothing without integrity.

[Bubbles]

Latifi becomes the third most famous current F1 driver in the UK.

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

There was plenty of time for that call to go all the way up the chain.

Merc pit crew were positioned, HAM passed by.

So Toto grabbed Bono and said “no pit”?

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by Bubbles

So Toto grabbed Bono and said “no pit”?

I'd like to know. Soon as the yellow came out they had plenty of time to discuss and prep for a pit stop. That was a buck stops here level decision if there ever was one.

[e90335e36m3]

Originally Posted by M2CS

There is no sport without rules. The rules weren't vague nor misinterpreted, they were disregarded to favor RB and TV ratings. F1 is nothing without integrity.

Really? You mean the rules or lack thereof that allow one or two teams with money and access to operate completely unencumbered in that respect? These rules, or a lack thereof, aren't incidental to the sport, they are core to its operation. Ask HAAS about this.
It's like setting up two basketball goals, one at 10 feet and another at 12 feet and only giving one team a chance to score on the lower goal. And don't tell me HAAS has the same opportunity to score on the 10 foot goal, because they don't.

Has Hamilton/Mercedes never got an unfair call by bitching about the rules to the stewards? Has Verstappen/Red Bull not? How about team orders? You think those are set up to ensure fairness in competition or to promote cheating? Ask Rubens Barrichello how he felt about pulling over in front of the finish line to let Schumacher win.

As fun as it is to watch, F1 is probably the most twisted, inconsistent, unfair sport there is, so this call is just par the course. Naturally Hamilton fans don't like the outcome, but pot, meet kettle.

[EnVe46]

I will start with I typically root for HAM but Im also a fan of entertainment, so also appreciate MAX and RB contribution to the competitiveness of this season....

All this said, from pure entertainment and motor racing position, I would have LIKED to have seen a red flag, leaving 5 laps remaining and letting HAM and MAX duel it out, all things being equal. There's literally no controversy in doing that and if you want ratings, that would have been the answer.

Of course, I would have liked to have seen HAM win it all but I do think he got fawked. Not unfairly or by breaking rules, just purely on luck. The rules are the rules but are also trumped by the director's final call. Criticize him, sure, but I don't think he "broke" any rules. More so, his interpretation was faulty.

[3798j]

Lando's take:

"I’m not too sure what was said by the FIA, at first we weren’t allowed to overtake," said Norris, who finished the eventful race seventh.

"So if that influenced decisions and if that’s the reason they [Mercedes] didn’t do the pit stop, but then the FIA suddenly changed their minds and were allowed to let us past… then that’s where I’m not sure, I guess that’s not acceptable.

"I’ll say congrats to both drivers. But in terms of the decision… yeah for it to end like that I’m not so sure."

For Norris, it appeared obvious that race control's decision to unleash the field for one final showdown lap between the leaders was "for the TV".

[3798j]

Daniel's take:

"At the end it was kind of weird, they said cars can’t pass, the lapped cars, then some of them did, but then I wasn’t allowed to," commented a confused Ricciardo.

"We did a one-lap restart, I’m sitting right behind Lewis and Max, like, why am I here? I don’t know. It was very interesting."

[M Hybrid V8]

Originally Posted by e90335e36m3

Really? You mean the rules or lack thereof that allow one or two teams with money and access to operate completely unencumbered in that respect? These rules, or a lack thereof, aren't incidental to the sport, they are core to its operation. Ask HAAS about this.
It's like setting up two basketball goals, one at 10 feet and another at 12 feet and only giving one team a chance to score on the lower goal. And don't tell me HAAS has the same opportunity to score on the 10 foot goal, because they don't.

Has Hamilton/Mercedes never got an unfair call by bitching about the rules to the stewards? Has Verstappen/Red Bull not? How about team orders? You think those are set up to ensure fairness in competition or to promote cheating? Ask Rubens Barrichello how he felt about pulling over in front of the finish line to let Schumacher win.

As fun as it is to watch, F1 is probably the most twisted, inconsistent, unfair sport there is, so this call is just par the course. Naturally Hamilton fans don't like the outcome, but pot, meet kettle.

Your complaint about some teams having more money exists in all sports and is not really relevant for what happened yesterday. No rules were thrown out to screw over HAAS. Your grievance is you want MORE rules to help HAAS.


None of this has anything to do with a governing body such as the FIA gifting a championship to a specific team. That's not one team shooting at a 10ft rim and the other 12 ft, it's more like a referee preventing one team from any more offense and defense until the other team scores enough points to win.

[e90335e36m3]

Originally Posted by M2CS

Your complaint about some teams having more money exists in all sports and is not really relevant for what happened yesterday. No rules were thrown out to screw over HAAS. Your grievance is you want MORE rules to help HAAS.


None of this has anything to do with a governing body such as the FIA gifting a championship to a specific team. That's not one team shooting at a 10ft rim and the other 12 ft, it's more like a referee preventing one team from any more offense and defense until the other team scores enough points to win.

It's all relevant. What I'm saying, in short, is that no matter what element of F1 you evaluate, you can make the "this is totally unfair" case. If everything unfair then what does difference does yesterday make? I'm in the let them race camp. Hamilton raced head to head and lost. A pace car win is not a win.

[Steeler]

Originally Posted by M2CS

They might as well withdraw it. The damage has already been done and it cannot be corrected without causing further damage. The only course of action that should be taken is the termination of Masi and other stewards.

Originally Posted by dbarton62

Masi is out of his depth.
When you start negotiating with team's over the radio, you've lost any respect the teams may have had for you, as well as control of your position.

Looking forward to next year. Clean slate.