[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc

https://www.foxnews.com/media/toront...iolent-thieves

Very disappointed, this is the dept I worked for, for 30+ years. I almost understand what the message the officer was trying to make was but he missed the mark by a mile and TPS has now released a statement walking it back. I mean why not just leave your front door unlocked so they don't do any damage during the home invasion. Toronto has had an over 500% increase in car thefts, car jackings and home invasions in the past year or so.

The average response time to 911 calls for TPS is now 22 minutes, a lifetime if you need help. It's clear to me and anyone paying attention that you can't rely on the police/government to protect you, your family or your property.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Soul_Glo

How do you ensure a good relationship between the police and the citizens in your precinct?

For me personally, fairness and communication. If I treat people fairly, apply the law fairly, and communicate thoroughly why I’m taking a particular action, in most cases it results in satisfactory discourse between me and the informant, victim or suspect.

Another thing that helps during casual encounters is taking an interest in people in the community. If I see a car meet I’ll roll up and chat cars. If I see people with children in a 7-11 convenience store, I’ll “high-five” the kids and tell them to respect their parents and be good.

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

Very disappointed, this is the dept I worked for, for 30+ years. I almost understand what the message the officer was trying to make was but he missed the mark by a mile and TPS has now released a statement walking it back. I mean why not just leave your front door unlocked so they don't do any damage during the home invasion. Toronto has had an over 500% increase in car thefts, car jackings and home invasions in the past year or so.

The average response time to 911 calls for TPS is now 22 minutes, a lifetime if you need help. It's clear to me and anyone paying attention that you can't rely on the police/government to protect you, your family or your property.

Exactly! Most departments are so short staffed - and crime has increased so exponentially - that people need to take seriously their own personal protection (..and situational awareness).

[Watching The World Burn]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

The average response time to 911 calls for TPS is now 22 minutes, a lifetime if you need help. It's clear to me and anyone paying attention that you can't rely on the police/government to protect you, your family or your property.

Yeah, but honestly, I'm more than a little skeptical that if I were successful in protecting my family (and that's a big if since we have no quick access to firearms and they have the element of surprise) and happened to either seriously injure or kill one of the perps that our current "justice" system wouldn't dummy me, instead of them. I figure it would be me behind bars. Don't know how, just feel like it would happen. I've lost faith in our judges.

Probably criminals have some sort of bill of rights that I'm unaware of that prevent bodily harm being done to them while they are carrying out the crime...tongue in cheek there, but sort of not.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Watching The World Burn

Yeah, but honestly, I'm more than a little skeptical that if I were successful in protecting my family (and that's a big if since we have no quick access to firearms and they have the element of surprise) and happened to either seriously injure or kill one of the perps that our current "justice" system wouldn't dummy me, instead of them. I figure it would be me behind bars. Don't know how, just feel like it would happen. I've lost faith in our judges.

Probably criminals have some sort of bill of rights that I'm unaware of that prevent bodily harm being done to them while they are carrying out the crime...tongue in cheek there, but sort of not.

I can’t argue with your latter point at all. Seemingly, they have more rights than the rest of us.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by Watching The World Burn

Yeah, but honestly, I'm more than a little skeptical that if I were successful in protecting my family (and that's a big if since we have no quick access to firearms and they have the element of surprise) and happened to either seriously injure or kill one of the perps that our current "justice" system wouldn't dummy me, instead of them. I figure it would be me behind bars. Don't know how, just feel like it would happen. I've lost faith in our judges.

Probably criminals have some sort of bill of rights that I'm unaware of that prevent bodily harm being done to them while they are carrying out the crime...tongue in cheek there, but sort of not.

There is lots of case law in Canada that supports your rights to defend yourself. You will get a rough ride from the justice system but the law is on your side. Further, I'd rather be prepared to defend myself than hope I'm not victimized. The old saying, I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

[Lady Jane]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

The old saying, I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

Snowflake policies: " If it's too expensive to enforce, we'll legalize it".

[Watching The World Burn]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

There is lots of case law in Canada that supports your rights to defend yourself. You will get a rough ride from the justice system but the law is on your side. Further, I'd rather be prepared to defend myself than hope I'm not victimized. The old saying, I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

At what personal cost though? Retirement savings depleted trying to pay for lawyers? Remortgage your house?

All for something that ought to be common sense, but our laws seem to lack it.

So then you have to weigh your options - if they are just in the garage / nowhere near you or your family and are just trying to steal your vehicle, do you go through any of the above hassle by confronting them? Honestly, I doubt I would.

If they were coming towards you, then yeah, if I'm going out, might as well be with a bang and try to take some with me, give the rest of my family a fighting chance to get out of there.

[UncleWede]

Marked crosswalk. The moment I step off the curb into said crosswalk, traffic is supposed to yield? What's the fine?

The other night I was out jogging. First, with flashing lights, and this truck comes barreling around the curve. He waves at me as he blasts past me.

This next crosswalk crosses 2 lanes of a down-hill onramp to 101. I stepped off cautiously, and no one even slowed. I raised my arms and my voice, still no response. I looked back over my shoulder at a local PD car, and officer just quickly looked down at his MDC. No flashing lights on this one.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by UncleWede

Marked crosswalk. The moment I step off the curb into said crosswalk, traffic is supposed to yield? What's the fine?

The other night I was out jogging. First, with flashing lights, and this truck comes barreling around the curve. He waves at me as he blasts past me.

This next crosswalk crosses 2 lanes of a down-hill onramp to 101. I stepped off cautiously, and no one even slowed. I raised my arms and my voice, still no response. I looked back over my shoulder at a local PD car, and officer just quickly looked down at his MDC. No flashing lights on this one.

Per 21950(a) CVC, yes…..assuming you have the green, but fine amount varies on the judge. Subsection (b) could place the pedestrian at fault depending on the circumstances.

[UncleWede]

"No pedestrian may unnecessarily stop or delay traffic while in a marked or unmarked crosswalk." I did that the other morning. Flashing lights, lane 1 stopped. I peaked around car into lane 2 and it looked like he was going to stop, so I started walking. then he revved the engine and honked, but I was already in the lane. I stopped and he came right up next to me, telling me I was number ONE. This is on the corner just outside the local station.
I tell them every couple of weeks, if they need to post the motor officer and have me cross the street, I will. A commander used to do it every couple of months, even went so far as to wear crazy bright costumes so no one could claim they didn't see him. they motor would write a few dozen cites, and then people would stop again, for a while.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by Watching The World Burn

At what personal cost though? Retirement savings depleted trying to pay for lawyers? Remortgage your house?

All for something that ought to be common sense, but our laws seem to lack it.

So then you have to weigh your options - if they are just in the garage / nowhere near you or your family and are just trying to steal your vehicle, do you go through any of the above hassle by confronting them? Honestly, I doubt I would.

If they were coming towards you, then yeah, if I'm going out, might as well be with a bang and try to take some with me, give the rest of my family a fighting chance to get out of there.

If you listen to the comments by the TPS officer he says many or most of them are armed. We live in a time where violence escalates often for no reason and quickly and you can't rely on the police to protect you. Lock yourself in your bedroom if you want but you might want something in there to protect you and your family. If someone comes into my house and are coming up the stairs they won't make it to the top of the stairs.

[Buug959]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

If you listen to the comments by the TPS officer he says many or most of them are armed. We live in a time where violence escalates often for no reason and quickly and you can't rely on the police to protect you. Lock yourself in your bedroom if you want but you might want something in there to protect you and your family. If someone comes into my house and are coming up the stairs they won't make it to the top of the stairs.

Same. There will be a mess to clean up at the bottom of the stairs.

[ezaircon4jc]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

If you listen to the comments by the TPS officer he says many or most of them are armed. We live in a time where violence escalates often for no reason and quickly and you can't rely on the police to protect you. Lock yourself in your bedroom if you want but you might want something in there to protect you and your family. If someone comes into my house and are coming up the stairs they won't make it to the top of the stairs.

I thought you guys had Britain-style gun control...

[Buug959]

Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc

I thought you guys had Britain-style gun control...

There are long guns aplenty north of the border. Its hard to miss with a scatter gun in a stairwell. Even birdshot from a 12ga at 10 to 15 ft will leave a mark that won't easily buff out.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc

I thought you guys had Britain-style gun control...

Canadian gun laws are strict but gun ownership is much higher in Canada than you'd think. There are a lot of hunters and sport shooters north of the border. The storage laws are strict but lots of people have guns. Our background checks and purchase laws are very cumbersome. Now as for criminals, being next door to the USA and a pretty porous border we have a pretty high amount of gun crime and gangs are very well armed.

[Watching The World Burn]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

If you listen to the comments by the TPS officer he says many or most of them are armed. We live in a time where violence escalates often for no reason and quickly and you can't rely on the police to protect you. Lock yourself in your bedroom if you want but you might want something in there to protect you and your family. If someone comes into my house and are coming up the stairs they won't make it to the top of the stairs.

I've got a bat in the room in case anyone wants a late night game of baseball, but if they're armed, its a little useless.

But realistically, there is absolutely no way my wife will permit a safe in the room that I know the combo to because I sleep walk and she worries about that. Right now the safe is in the basement and I don't know the combo - she has to open it every time I want to go to the range. And I'm not going to lock us in the room because both my sons are in different rooms and I can't imagine I'd have the time to gather them up and get back in time given the element of surprise they have on their side.

We have a bungalow, so I don't have a lot of options here. I'd agree - in your scenario you have less area to cover, on a different level of the house, ability to store nearby, and no other family members. That works for you, not for me - different scenario. I would *like* to have the shotgun in the bedroom though. I can't likely justify the pistol with the safe storage laws, but the shotgun would work.

That said, if society devolves further, I suspect she'll get over the sleep walking risk for the very real risk that we need it one night and don't have it...and then I'll be able to throw one of the firearms in the bedroom.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by Watching The World Burn

I've got a bat in the room in case anyone wants a late night game of baseball, but if they're armed, its a little useless.

But realistically, there is absolutely no way my wife will permit a safe in the room that I know the combo to because I sleep walk and she worries about that. Right now the safe is in the basement and I don't know the combo - she has to open it every time I want to go to the range. And I'm not going to lock us in the room because both my sons are in different rooms and I can't imagine I'd have the time to gather them up and get back in time given the element of surprise they have on their side.

We have a bungalow, so I don't have a lot of options here. I'd agree - in your scenario you have less area to cover, on a different level of the house, ability to store nearby, and no other family members. That works for you, not for me - different scenario. I would *like* to have the shotgun in the bedroom though. I can't likely justify the pistol with the safe storage laws, but the shotgun would work.

That said, if society devolves further, I suspect she'll get over the sleep walking risk for the very real risk that we need it one night and don't have it...and then I'll be able to throw one of the firearms in the bedroom.

If you don't own a handgun now you won't be able to buy one (legally) unless a new government reverses that ban. We have a biometric safe in the bedroom where we keep my wife's 686. The rest of the guns are in a stand up floor safe in the basement. With some creativity and practice the safe storage laws wouldn't slow you down very much. And at the end of the day would you rather take a charge of unsafe storage than not having the option to defend yourself?

[Watching The World Burn]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

If you don't own a handgun now you won't be able to buy one (legally) unless a new government reverses that ban. We have a biometric safe in the bedroom where we keep my wife's 686. The rest of the guns are in a stand up floor safe in the basement. With some creativity and practice the safe storage laws wouldn't slow you down very much. And at the end of the day would you rather take a charge of unsafe storage than not having the option to defend yourself?

100% correct, would take unsafe storage charge and live to see another day anytime. But cannot convince the wife at the current state that this is a good idea. Maybe later in life...small biometric will be in my future.

I've had a handgun for a while, long before the silly government created more laws so as to prevent the current lawbreakers from breaking these new laws. A nice 1911 Kimber Raptor that I enjoy, chambered in the Lord's calibre of course.

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

Originally Posted by Watching The World Burn

At what personal cost though? Retirement savings depleted trying to pay for lawyers? Remortgage your house?

All for something that ought to be common sense, but our laws seem to lack it.

So then you have to weigh your options - if they are just in the garage / nowhere near you or your family and are just trying to steal your vehicle, do you go through any of the above hassle by confronting them? Honestly, I doubt I would.

If they were coming towards you, then yeah, if I'm going out, might as well be with a bang and try to take some with me, give the rest of my family a fighting chance to get out of there.

you were in the garage when they came in and they lunged at you and shouted verbal threats and postured their first. therefore you used deadly force

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by Watching The World Burn

100% correct, would take unsafe storage charge and live to see another day anytime. But cannot convince the wife at the current state that this is a good idea. Maybe later in life...small biometric will be in my future.

I've had a handgun for a while, long before the silly government created more laws so as to prevent the current lawbreakers from breaking these new laws. A nice 1911 Kimber Raptor that I enjoy, chambered in the Lord's calibre of course.

I regret not picking up a 1911, my wife said we had enough guns....now she says we would buy more.

[erickonphoenix]

We've got eight guns total but they're all in locked storage except for one. The only gun we have for self defense is a Mosberg 12g because of the theater of racking it and my poor aiming skills.

Before I was married I lived on the very wrong side of the tracks. I found the 12g was a fine deterrent when I was home, but I worked nights so I still got robbed a few times until I upwardly mobilized myself out of that zip code.

Nowadays I rely more being on the 7th floor of a mid rise with lobby security.

[UncleWede]

Originally Posted by erickonphoenix

Mosberg 12g

MOM bought me the combo pack for my 18th, from Big 5. At home, it stays in a soft case, with the pistol grip and legally-provided short barrel. Trigger lock, and a sleeve that holds 3 00 and 2 3" magnum slugs.

If I have to use it, my hand will hurt for a day or two. "Be glad for the pain, it means you aren't dead"