[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by kyleb350

I have a feeling insurance rates are going to be a bit high for this car.

I think the fact that it's available with an automatic and has "back seats" should keep rates fairly reasonable. Further, it's had good, early safety ratings, which never hurt.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by kyleb350

I have a feeling insurance rates are going to be a bit high for this car.

Originally Posted by kdiggz

too much fast and furious drifting action for that guy

If 200 hp can be too much, just imagine 340 hp... Not fast, not even furious... and yet :

[GoingTooFast]

[Ricfutures]

Someone at my office picked up one of these. Saw him take a turn at high speed and the car looked like it handled the turn like a champ. Little body roll bone stock. Looks really good.

[GoingTooFast]

The manufacturer specialist of high revving SCREAMER engines finally has done it... it has gone turbocharged :

Honda announced Gabriele Tarquini and the portuguese Tiago Monteiro as the drivers for its first campaign in the FIA World Touring Car Championship. The pair will be at the wheel of the new Civic WTCC cars run by Honda Racing Team JAS in 2013.

JAS Motorsport are currently developing the European Honda Civic 5-door racing car, whilst Honda R&D has designed and built a new 1.6 litre 4 cylinder direct injection turbo-charged petrol engine at its research and development centre in Tochigi.

As part of its development programme, Honda will enter one car for Monteiro in the three final events of the 2012 WTCC, at Suzuka, Shanghai and Macau. Honda R&D and Mugen will provide trackside support to the team as the new engine makes its racing debut.

(...)

Tarquini has claimed 17 WTCC race victories and was crowned champion in 2009; he rejoins Honda and JAS Motorsport for which he raced from 1997 to 2001 in the British, German and European Touring Car Championships.

Also a WTCC race winner with four victories, Monteiro claimed a third place in the 2005 F1 US Grand Prix at Indianapolis.

(...)

Honda CEO Takanobu Ito explained: “We took the decision to enter in the WTCC with the European Civic. We will develop a totally new engine for this project and we are all excited about starting this new challenge.” For this project, Honda formed a joint partnership with Mugen and J.A.S. Motorsport. Mugen will manufacture a 1.6-litre turbo bespoke racing engine developed by Honda R&D and will maintain it at the races along with the team. J.A.S. Motorsport will develop the racecar, using the new Honda Civic 5-door produced in Honda’s manufacturing plant located in Swindon, UK. Honda’s ambition is to join the WTCC as early as this season, with a string of “inaugural rounds”. Discussions are currently being held with the FIA, but these rounds would include Japan (on 21 October at Suzuka), China and Macau. Honda will then enter a two-car team, managed by J.A.S. Motorsport, in the full 2013 championship season. Honda’s commitment in motor sport dates back to Fifties (Isle of Man’s Tourist Trophy) and the Sixties (fist F1 programme) and resulted several successes that include five F1 world titles in both the Drivers’ and Manufacturers’ championships. Honda press release also reads: “The FIA WTCC is the next chapter in Honda’s on-going commitment to world motor sport and provides a perfect platform to demonstrate its racing spirit to Honda’s numerous fans around the world.”

The car will be first presented next August.


Subaru and Toyota don't be late, you know that it's inevitable...

[BMW269]

The problem of turbocharged engines will never disappear, or are at least not ready to :
- low redline (for european engines)
- bad throttle response
- turbo lag
- induction sound

I'd take a NA 2.0l I4 over a FI 1.6l I4, a NA 3.0l I6 over a FI 2.0l I4, a NA 4.0l V8 over a FI 3.0l I6, a NA 5.0l V10 over a FI 4.4l V8.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Levi

The problem of turbocharged engines will never disappear, or are at least not ready to :
- low redline (for european engines)
- bad throttle response
- turbo lag
- induction sound

It seems Honda doesn't think so...

Maybe you are too young to remember when Honda dominated the F1 scene... you will never ever see an overtake like the following one again in F1... and the engine, well... a 1.5L (1,494 cc ) V6 turbocharged:

"It was like making a looping with a Boeing 747"

Jackie Stewart about Piquet overtaking Senna, Hungary 1986

[Ammonia]

I need a spunky DD so I can garage my 135 for the weekends. But I really wish they'd kept the taillights from the concept:







That looks so much better than the one in production.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Ammonia

That looks so much better than the one in production.

I also rather prefer the concept... however the Toyobaru looks really nice in this guise:

[BMW269]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

It seems Honda doesn't think so...

Maybe you are too young to remember when Honda dominated the F1 scene... you will never ever see an overtake like the following one again in F1... and the engine, well... a 1.5L (1,494 cc ) V6 turbocharged:

We can't compare Motorsport to Road.


I don't the the N54 has any advantage over a Porsche 3.4l H6.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Levi

We can't compare Motorsport to Road..

Exactly! High revving engines belong to the track.

Originally Posted by Levi

I don't the the N54 has any advantage over a Porsche 3.4l H6.

There's NO doubt whatsoever in my mind that the 1M's N54 is miles better than the 9A1 3.4L H6 for the road use... needless to say, the reason being the massive torque advantage right from the low end.

Now, here's the thing... even at the track the 1M's N54 still is superior simply because its torque advantage over the 9A1 3.4L is so HUGE (even if you consider the 330 hp version of the Cayman R) that neither the +400 rpm redline and the R's lower weight can possibly overcome it in sheer acceleration with the manual gear box.

You should try both engines... then, see for yourself!

[GoingTooFast]

[GoingTooFast]

Toyobaru with a turbo and front mounted intercooler running only 4 PSI in a stock engine with stock exhaust and CATs gives the car a 54.5 hp boost over its stock 161 whp (200 hp at the crank - baseline hp/tq for a stock on same dyno: 161WHP/136WTQ):

Peak wheel HP: 213 @ 7600 rpm
Peak wheel Torque: 160 @ 6500 rpm (151 lb-ft at the crank stock)

If we consider that there is a [(1- 136/151) x 100 ] = 10% loss in power from the engine to the wheels (which is a bit optimistic to say the least) it gives,

1.10 x 160 = 176 lb-ft at the crank


Not quite the 201 lb-ft value I am hoping for from Subaru and Toyota but that's a step... don't care about horsepower gains.

[GoingTooFast]

We already know that the Toyobaru can dance...

[BMW269]

"Picture this: there are two drivers, one of them in a parellel universe, both of them on the same piece of Sicilian mountain roud - blind corners and short straights. One driver is in a Bugatti Veyron and the other is in a McLaren F1. Both are in fourth gear at 2500rpm and both are stuck behind a clapped-out clattering truck, closely shadowed by two Fiat Pandas. Both drivers spot agap of 200 yards to the next hairpin and both throttle pedals are smacked against the stops. A few short seconds later, the F1 has passed all three vehicles, pulled back onto the correct side of the road and braked safely in the hairpin. The Buggati has by now nosed alongside the first Panda and the corner is arriving fast - the driver is just beginning to experience the express-train-coupled-to-the-rear-bumper feeling as the turbos begin to spin up but he must back out of throttle and brake behind the lead Panda.

The Bugatti Veyron was a much better track-car than I'd imagined it would be, but on the road however, the numbers counted for very little.
Where does all this leave us as a buying public and as a sports car enthusiast? Firstly and perhaps most obviously, we should always test-drive the cars in everyday situations and never on a circuit."

Gordon Murray

[GoingTooFast]

Levi,

Those cars are useless for road use. Who among us can make the most of those cars, let alone in a public road?!

Seriuosly, I drove a 1M in a daily basis and I have a LOT of fun in the process but am I making the most of it, am I using all the power available?!

The answer is a clear NO!

I wish the reason of my limitations as a driver was the hypothetical 1M's engine 'turbo lag'... the truth is, it's NOT!

You have to be a top driver to start concerning about such little things like the 1M's 'turbo lag' when compared to the best atmo engines... because the 1M's throttle response IS indeed very good.

Let's put all this into perspective... 95% (and I think I'm being generous here ) of the people that writes in car forums is NOT able to exploit at 100% more than the Toyobaru has to offer, me included!

And, if we are going on talking about driver's cars, because we all appreciate them, then we should talk about the ones we can actually know how to drive in the first place... that's the reason why the Toyobaru is such a bless!

[GoingTooFast]

Who woud have guessed?!

[GoingTooFast]

“The GT86 was crowned winner of Top Gear Speed Week, ending up in first place among a eclectic range of 24 performance cars that included supercars, single-seat road racers, hot hatches, super saloons and even a three-wheeler. And a tuned-up Transit.”

Jeremy Clarkson comments on the Toyota GT86:

‘I’m sorry, Ford, Vauxhall and Suzuki, but the Toyota is just better at corners than all of you… It’s a real-world hero.’

‘…hand on heart, this was one of my favourite cars. It’s not slow – it really isn’t – it’s just that you have to work to get performance from it, but is that a problem? It sounds sweet, is smooth and has the best throttle response of anything here, 911 included.

‘This is hysterical. It’s so much more powerful than you’d think. At £25,000 it’s extremely good value for money.’

‘The Toyota is dainty and maximises the benefits of its layout and low centre of gravity. It’s a car that asks why you need to go round a corner at a zillion miles an hour. You don’t. Even pottering around, it’s different and interesting.

‘Acceleration is fun, but the noise is as important as the kick in the back, and I’d rather spend 30 seconds wringing the GT86 up to speed than three seconds being pummelled by the McLaren.

‘Our seven testers had the McLaren, 911 and Exige in a photo finish for second place, with the GT86 out in front. The Toyota isn’t big, it isn’t especially clever, but it’s fun.

‘The Toyota was the car everyone kept jumping into for “one last quick go”, and the one they got out of with the daftest smiles on their faces.’

Sorry mate... but the Toyobaru actually IS especially clever!

[BMW86]

I just found this thread. What is the STI concept in the 1st post? Is that coming out anytime soon?

[BMW269]

Originally Posted by BMW86

I just found this thread. What is the STI concept in the 1st post? Is that coming out anytime soon?

That was the Concept car shown before the Porduction BRZ was revealed. The Concept car was an STI version of the BRZ. Other the the slightly different bumpers and side skirts, the main difference between that and the production car are the tail-lamps, that all prefered much more. The STI will come, but ti is not known if NA or FI. Some sources say a 300 PS Turbocharged FA20, other sources say a +250 PS NA FA20 with 9.000 RPM redline and much weight reduction.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Levi

That was the Concept car shown before the Porduction BRZ was revealed. The Concept car was an STI version of the BRZ. Other the the slightly different bumpers and side skirts, the main difference between that and the production car are the tail-lamps, that all prefered much more. The STI will come, but ti is not known if NA or FI. Some sources say a 300 PS Turbocharged FA20, other sources say a +250 PS NA FA20 with 9.000 RPM redline and much weight reduction.

And I say 1.6 D4-S Turbo boxer engine (FA16 ?!) 211-220 hp and 270-300 Nm of torque.

More than that and it will defeat the Toyobaru's purpose... something like this:

[BMW269]

^ This one has alot of turbo lag.