[M5Rick]

The only thing that makes sense to me is that RBR advisor Helmut Marko has said that the 18 finishing second to Merc in the first tests with plenty of pace in hand and slightly ahead of Ferrari, not using soft tyres at all while Merc did makes Marko's prediction all the more credible.
He mentioned that others like McLaren simply used less fuel to hang onto the coat tails of the top three and that goes with Norris saying he's not happy.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

The only thing that makes sense to me is that RBR advisor Helmut Marko has said that the 18 finishing second to Merc in the first tests with plenty of pace in hand and slightly ahead of Ferrari, not using soft tyres at all while Merc did makes Marko's prediction all the more credible.
He mentioned that others like McLaren simply used less fuel to hang onto the coat tails of the top three and that goes with Norris saying he's not happy.

HONDA (Japan) will come soon , with a complete new 2022 PU ...

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

HONDA (Japan) will come soon , with a complete new 2022 PU ...

Music to my ears

[Killed by Death]

Interesting!!!

[///M Power-Belgium]

*****

[F87source]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

HONDA (Japan) will come soon , with a complete new 2022 PU ...

Really? When will they finish making the new pu?

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

*****

Like a hoover nozzle getting close to the floor, as you said before newer suspension tech needs to be okayed by FIA before its used and the key to arresting porpoising happening under the body will take some new thinking, Newey thinking

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

HONDA (Japan) will come soon , with a complete new 2022 PU ...

Marko has come on again to say RB carried more fuel than Ferrari at Barcelona scotching any thoughts that the reds are quicker in the long term with the 400+ laps they did even with their E10 adjusted PU. He says RB are +- equal with Merc with what's been shown so far and there's a big window available for fine tuning before Bahrain in particular the porpoising.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Marko has come on again to say RB carried more fuel than Ferrari at Barcelona scotching any thoughts that the reds are quicker in the long term with the 400+ laps they did even with their E10 adjusted PU. He says RB are +- equal with Merc with what's been shown so far and there's a big window available for fine tuning before Bahrain in particular the porpoising.

How would he even know they had a higher fuel load? My opinion is he is just throwing shade at ferrari. It's a typical helmut marko thing to do, if you guys think Toto talks nonsense helmut is even worse.

Also my hunch is every team on the grid will not be able to fully solve porposing correctly this season, they will likely have to sacrifice some performance to eliminate porposing and that will likely mean a bit higher ride height.

Because remember the trade off is quali vs. race, during the race they will have higher fuel loads (more weight and thus more squat and in term leads to a higher chance to porpoise) and you don't want to be porposing in the the first corner and risk a crash, so you will have to sacrifice quali pace by raising ride height in order to accomodate for race conditions.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by F87source

How would he even know they had a higher fuel load? My opinion is he is just throwing shade at ferrari. It's a typical helmut marko thing to do, if you guys think Toto talks nonsense helmut is even worse.

Also my hunch is every team on the grid will not be able to fully solve porposing correctly this season, they will likely have to sacrifice some performance to eliminate porposing and that will likely mean a bit higher ride height.

Because remember the trade off is quali vs. race, during the race they will have higher fuel loads (more weight and thus more squat and in term leads to a higher chance to porpoise) and you don't want to be porposing in the the first corner and risk a crash, so you will have to sacrifice quali pace by raising ride height in order to accomodate for race conditions.

You'd be surprised how they know if a car is carrying more or less fuel, you cannot cheat the law of physics.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

You'd be surprised how they know if a car is carrying more or less fuel, you cannot cheat the law of physics.

You can't cheat physics but it is still impossible to determine fuel load between teams, there are extremely smart fans that would easily be able to do it (same guys who generate CFD models and CFD analysis for fun) - if it were possible.

Eg:

1) determine fuel load by suspension sag vs. on scales. This is near impossible to do because you'd need to know a team's spring rates, and base weight, and how much fuel they are running on the scales etc. Impossible to know.

2) cornering speeds: that would imply they would have to know the teams down force generation, and the cars base weight, mechanical grip, tire deg over a race etc. Again impossible.

3) You'd also have to know fuel burn rate if you some how knew the ending fuel rate and saw the weight data from said scales (again not allowed), and impossible to determine.

4) testing means random number of laps and back to the garage, so impossible to determine fuel load based on how many laps a team went because they could have been fuelling heavy and pretended to go in early. It is impossible to tell.

Again there are so many former f1 engineers and incredibly intellegent engineers around the planet who would be able to easily determine this if possible, and it is not.You'd also have to acertain so much information about a car you'd essentially know more about the car than the team itself.

So no helmut marko is just full of crap.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by F87source

Really? When will they finish making the new pu?

As you can see : It was 'January 28...The title says : "Almost completed" !
The new 2022 HONDA PU will reach in terms of performance the Mercedes PU.
Not sure , if they mean the power from the Mercedes PU with the 'bigger upgraded 2022 Turbo..

But no one can beat the power of new 2022 Ferrari PU , Ferrari worked for over 2 years on their 2022 PU with the new E-10 fuel regulations .
#FerrariJetMode !

Source ...

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Marko has come on again to say RB carried more fuel than Ferrari at Barcelona scotching any thoughts that the reds are quicker in the long term with the 400+ laps they did even with their E10 adjusted PU. He says RB are +- equal with Merc with what's been shown so far and there's a big window available for fine tuning before Bahrain in particular the porpoising.

That's correct my friend . Red Bull tested with a full fuel load , it was a heavy RB-18B there in Barcelona .

But ....
Red Bull got visit from the FIA . The FIA inspected MAX's car , and in particular the RB-18B's rear suspension , diffusor and of course the Star-Wars side-pods .

The next article that I'm reading is : Mercedes went in a deep investigation regarding the RB-18B side-pods .
So ..Actually nothing new , and normal behavior from Mercedes side

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

That's correct my friend . Red Bull tested with a full fuel load , it was a heavy RB-18B there in Barcelona .

But ....
Red Bull got visit from the FIA . The FIA inspected MAX's car , and in particular the RB-18B's rear suspension , diffusor and of course the Star-Wars side-pods .

The next article that I'm reading is : Mercedes went in a deep investigation regarding the RB-18B side-pods .
So ..Actually nothing new , and normal behavior from Mercedes side

So nothing changes from when Masi was RD, same 5 hit different day, Merc and gov. body seem in cahoots to constantly investigate the RB car.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by F87source

You can't cheat physics but it is still impossible to determine fuel load between teams, there are extremely smart fans that would easily be able to do it (same guys who generate CFD models and CFD analysis for fun) - if it were possible.

Eg:

1) determine fuel load by suspension sag vs. on scales. This is near impossible to do because you'd need to know a team's spring rates, and base weight, and how much fuel they are running on the scales etc. Impossible to know.

2) cornering speeds: that would imply they would have to know the teams down force generation, and the cars base weight, mechanical grip, tire deg over a race etc. Again impossible.

3) You'd also have to know fuel burn rate if you some how knew the ending fuel rate and saw the weight data from said scales (again not allowed), and impossible to determine.

4) testing means random number of laps and back to the garage, so impossible to determine fuel load based on how many laps a team went because they could have been fuelling heavy and pretended to go in early. It is impossible to tell.

Again there are so many former f1 engineers and incredibly intellegent engineers around the planet who would be able to easily determine this if possible, and it is not.You'd also have to acertain so much information about a car you'd essentially know more about the car than the team itself.

So no helmut marko is just full of crap.

There is still the physical behaviour of a fuel laden car as I mentioned before and one that has less fuel.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

As you can see : It was 'January 28...The title says : "Almost completed" !
The new 2022 HONDA PU will reach in terms of performance the Mercedes PU.
Not sure , if they mean the power from the Mercedes PU with the 'bigger upgraded 2022 Turbo..

But no one can beat the power of new 2022 Ferrari PU , Ferrari worked for over 2 years on their 2022 PU with the new E-10 fuel regulations .
#FerrariJetMode !

Source ...

Well since it's an old article this is old news and whatever Honda was running in Barcelona was their new engine, no more changes being made now because March 1st is the engine freeze.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

There is still the physical behaviour of a fuel laden car as I mentioned before and one that has less fuel.

Physical behavior is extremely quantitative and doesn't tell you anything meaningful especially during testing when teams can sand bag. Also you'd have to know how to car behaves under all its fuel loads to be able to determine fuel level via handling characteristics. Otherwise you can't extrapolate accurately.


Helmut accused Ferrari of being under weight too, and that's impossible to determine via car handling characteristics.


Again he's fully of crap.

[F87source]

A really interesting image of McLaren torn apart:


utm_medium=copy_link

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by F87source

Well since it's an old article this is old news and whatever Honda was running in Barcelona was their new engine, no more changes being made now because March 1st is the engine freeze.

Mate . As usual ,you are so F* stubborn ! Because the subject was MAX and Red Bull..

Do you want a new article from 'Yesterday March 2 + the source ?

Note : Don't be worried , the new 2022 HONDA PU will be strong enough to beat your dude HAM again !
You're such a damn HAM and Mercedes preacher ...
OK here we go again. I really hope that you can read it !

=> https://racingnews365.nl/marko-heeft...tor-verstappen

*****

[F87source]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Mate . As usual ,you are so F* stubborn ! Because the subject was Red Bull..

Do you want a new article from 'Yesterday March 2 + the source ?

Note : Don't be worried , the new 2022 HONDA PU will be strong enough to beat your dude HAM again !
You're such a damn HAM and Mercedes preacher ...
OK here we go again. I really hope that you can read it !

=> https://racingnews365.nl/marko-heeft...tor-verstappen

*****

Stubborn? No, I'm realistic, as I am for every team you just post too much redbull nonsense. You call me a Ham preacher but I'm not the one with max as my profile picture and a caption about max...


The homologation deadline and engine freeze period was March 1st, so that "new" engine was already developed awhile back and thus had to be used in the Barcelona test unless Honda didn't want to gather operation data.

So what you saw in Barcelona was the new honda engine, how is this stubborn? It is just how it is with the redbull requested engine freeze, nothing can be fixed now. Except the electrical stores until Sept 1.



BTW my reply was towards your comment that Honda was making a new engine for redbull, in that regards they couldn't have done anything past March 1st, and if they did push it that late there would be zero running data which is a bad idea. So again what you saw in Barcelona would be the new engine.


Edit - yeah just read that article (there is an english option for the site) and nothing I said was wrong. It's not a new engine as in they are making a new engine, it is what they have thus far.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by F87source

Stubborn? No, I'm realistic, as I am for every team you just post too much redbull nonsense. You call me a Ham preacher but I'm not the one with max as my profile picture and a caption about max...


The homologation deadline and engine freeze period was March 1st, so that "new" engine was already developed awhile back and thus had to be used in the Barcelona test unless Honda didn't want to gather operation data.

So what you saw in Barcelona was the new honda engine, how is this stubborn? It is just how it is with the redbull requested engine freeze, nothing can be fixed now. Except the electrical stores until Sept 1.



BTW my reply was towards your comment that Honda was making a new engine for redbull, in that regards they couldn't have done anything past March 1st, and if they did push it that late there would be zero running data which is a bad idea. So again what you saw in Barcelona would be the new engine.


Edit - yeah just read that article (there is an english option for the site) and nothing I said was wrong. It's not a new engine as in they are making a new engine, it is what they have thus far.

BS ....As usual from your side !
I didn't said that HONDA was making a new PU !
I said : A new 2022 HONDA PU will come soon
That was March 1 , and just in time for the FIA PU regulations and the article was posted one day later ...
More to come for sure !

[F87source]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

BS ....As usual from your side !
I didn't said that HONDA was making a new PU !
I said : A new 2022 HONDA PU will come soon
That was March 1 , and just in time for the FIA PU regulations and the article was posted one day later ...
More to come for sure !

You implied a new Honda engine was coming soon, which means they are making a new engine. Because coming soon means not already available, this means it wasn't used in Barcelona.


I replied in post 676 that the article was old, hence the engine used in Barcelona was the reported new engine otherwise how will Honda get test data for the homologation date. Thus this "new" engine isn't coming soon it must be already used, or else honda will be making a big gamble if they have a new untested engine coming.

Again nothing I said was wrong.. Your article also proved what I said because marko mentioned that the new engine they used in Barcelona was as powerful as their competitors.




Btw I'm not insulting redbull or anything I'm just saying that's there engine in Barcelona, and there's nothing coming after March 1st.