[inTgr8r]

I believe that the stewards assigned VER portion of the incident on the fact he didn't hold his line into the corner.
He turned into the path of HAM while he was still alongside.

Notice his steering input in pic1 and then in pic 2 he added a LOT more right input.
They came together immediately following.

Holding his line with room for HAM


Turning in hard with HAM alongside (you can still see the tip of HAM front wing)

[inTgr8r]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

......
Especially on things the FIA says was HAM fault.
....

They did not say it was his fault.
They did however judge HAM to be more at fault.
Thus the 10 sec penalty and not something more severe.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

I think Mercedes Benz is a larger organisation than the FIA.

And Mercedes Benz has made some horrible and politically motivated decisions in the past....

But all this has nothing to do with the FIA's decision.
they have the mandate to judge over this, they have and they have motivated their decision. No horrible or political words were used in that. It was mainly HAM fault. That's why he got the penalty.
And the pictures show that at ANY time there was enough room on the inside for HAM. He just decided not to use that room. So his front wheel touched VER rear wheel.
Clear case to me.
You act like VER ran HAM off the track.

What about the room that VER had to the left. It was 3 or 4 car widths wide.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

What about the room that VER had to the left. It was 3 or 4 car widths wide.

So he needs to leave more than 1 carwidht room on the inside?
He was the race leader...

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

They did however judge HAM to be more at fault.

Yes more at fault. So HAM should change his driving style more than VER in such a situation.
BTW HAM got more penalty than just 10sec. He also got 2 points which is the common ammount for causing a collision.

BTW it's strange that people here are under the impression that VER has driving style that requires improvement.
If we look at the past 3 years, VER got a total of 4 points on his licence whereas HAM got a total off 13 penalty points on his license.
That's quite a difference. So for the last 3 years this is not the case. Maybe some people live in the past...
In fact, VER is together with ALO and MSC the only one to not get any penalty points this year.

[ToddBlack88]

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

I believe that the stewards assigned VER portion of the incident on the fact he didn't hold his line into the corner.
He turned into the path of HAM while he was still alongside.

Notice his steering input in pic1 and then in pic 2 he added a LOT more right input.
They came together immediately following.

Holding his line with room for HAM
Attachment 2653978

Turning in hard with HAM alongside (you can still see the tip of HAM front wing)
Attachment 2653979

I cannot find the video now, but one of the presenters showed this exact on board video from Max's car during the race.
Max turns in, sees Hamilton there, straightens up, then when Hamilton disappears from Max’s onboard video He turns in much sharper. I assume this is because he assumes Hamilton has backed off. He was wrong. The other video shows Hamilton’s steering input staying steady to the right, never wavering, with Max turning into him.

The Result sucks for Max, but he had an enormous amount of space to stay on the outside of Hamilton on that corner, and this wouldn’t have happened, and with the RB car he would have taken back the lead easily at a later time. He just will not let someone pass him. He is elbows out at all time, to his detriment here. If he had, dare I say, Hamiltons patience, he would walk away with this years DWC I believe.

[GuidoK]

This is what the FIA said:

"Cars 33 [Verstappen] and 44 [Hamilton] entered Turn 9 with Car 33 in the lead and Car 44 slightly behind and on the inside.

"Car 44 was on a line that did not reach the apex of the corner, with room available to the inside.

"When Car 33 turned into the corner, Car 44 did not avoid contact and the left front of Car 44 contacted the right rear of Car 33. Car 44 is judged predominantly at fault."

So the fact that HAM didn't use a racing line towards the apex and that he didn't use the room on the inside of the track left by VER to avoid contact made him the predomanantly faulty party in this matter.

Sounds pretty clear to me.

Lets see what happens in the next race.

[MilehighM3]

Originally Posted by tdott

Happens all the time, open your eyes. It's called live to fight another day.

Lewis and other drivers has done it many times knowing MAX would have caused a crash.

Case in point, Max leading Brazil 2018, Max got aggressive trying to lap a back marker while in the lead. Even if it was 100% Ocon's fault, it doesn't matter because it costed him the win.

Being right/not at fault in a race, doesn't earn you points.

Champions are crowned everyday by allowing others to take the lead?

Lewis had plenty of space, just not enough grip to use it. Dumb luck is all that kept his L/F suspension from failing.

Mind you I'm not a big fan of either driver, these are just the racing facts. Clearly Lewis fans can't seem to see them. Perhaps instead of arguing for the sake of it, you could take a moment to see that your favorite driver can indeed make a mistake. If not, enjoy your life in pleasantville.

[MilehighM3]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

What about the room that VER had to the left. It was 3 or 4 car widths wide.

Off line, where there's no grip and no corner exit speed since you're still fighting the corner instead of opening up your steering and accelerating. Why don't all drivers use this ideal real estate on the outside of the corner in the dry? Oh, they're too busy driving the fastest line!

[yco]

just wait till Max takes out someone just like this..
then all this will turn the other way around.. this board will see posts like,
"he (Max's opponent) wasnt suppose to be there".. yes cause his opponent suppose to be home watching TV during an F1 race..

yes cause when Max is on track every other driver should let him pass or slow down.. cause Max thinks he is the only one can take his elbows out.. nobody except Max dont know how to race..

and since cause he is the most respectful driver on the grid if you ignore the fact that Max called most of the grid idiot on the radio so far or heavy cursing.. every driver loves and respects him..

Max is God.. dont forget folks.. he wins races or takes poles in trimmed down low downforce level shopping cart.. because why? its not about the car.. its about who can win by a shopping cart.. why on earth Merc', Ferrari etc. is racing in F1? oh wait..

who else can do this in a shopping cart? his teammates also maybe? right after stop being a test driver for Max.. maybe.. oh Perez won actually even if he tests new parts most of the time or gets the old parts stick on his car.. good times good Perez.. bad times idiot Perez in RB fans eyes.. there are some posts like this here.. surprised? im not..



-------



PS: i ve realized right now that what if such thing d happen in Abu Dhabi.. have you thought about it?

with this mindset, Red Bull d sue the guy who sold the fireworks, the guy who fired it even the cameramen who shot those scenes.. cause when Max is out of the race.. F1 race must stop.. ohh sorry.. life must stop to consecrate him..

[M5Rick]

Wolff had no business going to the stewards.
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/89694...ing-there.html

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

So he needs to leave more than 1 carwidht room on the inside?
He was the race leader...



Yes more at fault. So HAM should change his driving style more than VER in such a situation.
BTW HAM got more penalty than just 10sec. He also got 2 points which is the common ammount for causing a collision.

BTW it's strange that people here are under the impression that VER has driving style that requires improvement.
If we look at the past 3 years, VER got a total of 4 points on his licence whereas HAM got a total off 13 penalty points on his license.
That's quite a difference. So for the last 3 years this is not the case. Maybe some people live in the past...
In fact, VER is together with ALO and MSC the only one to not get any penalty points this year.

Good point about the penalty points comparing HAM and Max's few,13 to Max's 4 GuidoK,that was going to be in my next post.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

I believe that the stewards assigned VER portion of the incident on the fact he didn't hold his line into the corner.
He turned into the path of HAM while he was still alongside.

Notice his steering input in pic1 and then in pic 2 he added a LOT more right input.
They came together immediately following.

Holding his line with room for HAM
Attachment 2653978

Turning in hard with HAM alongside (you can still see the tip of HAM front wing)
Attachment 2653979

HAM was driving like a maniac and experts have already confirmed he was ready for contact with Max.

[SenorFunkyPants]

The year's at the spring,
And day's at the morn;
Max is in the gravel
And Lewis has the crown
God is in His heaven,
So all is right with the world!

Apologies to Robert Browning

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

He looks ready for the Hungaroring !

Going back to the Sprint finish podium my friend, the way Val was looking over at Max on the podium as if he was trying to tell him something,a warning perhaps but of course he can't probably as already decided there that 44 Merc would be using a 'quali type' mode in the race. Why would he be looking like that he doesn't normally.

[SteveChester]

I wonder at what point in this thread we are going to discuss what happened on lap 2-52

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by SteveChester

I wonder at what point in this thread we are going to discuss what happened on lap 2-52

You are free to do so, but it seems that most people here think that the race leader getting rammed off the track is the most important event of the race whether they approve of such behaviour or not...

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by SteveChester

I wonder at what point in this thread we are going to discuss what happened on lap 2-52

I tied to a while back but it got punted by hammy's loyal subjects

So I've just been sitting back eating popcorn

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by minn19

VER helped run himself off the track. Had he lessened up just a bit on his steering angle they probably wouldn’t of touched. Part of the things you ignore is all the actions leading up to this. This didn’t happen in a vacuum. HAM has had to move or check up several times this year to avoid a collision due to Max’s aggressive/borderline dirty driving. Spain being the biggest example IIRC. Lewis avoided a collision/backed off and got Max for the win later. This is what a lot of us are saying he needs to learn to do. You even stated RB was much faster in the corners so why not let him by and get him later, MBs in race strategy hasn’t been great to say the least either. Do you really believe he (Max) is faultless in this incident?

HAM was extremely aggressive behind MAX (more than usual) !
HAM tried to overtake several times with left-right moves behind MAX, while MAX ran in the middle of the track .
HAM was a lot faster on the straight because he was slipstreaming behind MAX and the Mercs ran with less rear wing !
MAX ran in the Copse turn on the perfect race line . HAM didn't on the inside , HAM's angle to turn in Copse was the angle to hit MAX's right rear !

"Who touched Who" ?

MAX touched 'No one ..That's why HAM is "100 % GUILTY" in the crash !

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Wolff had no business going to the stewards.
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/89694...ing-there.html

"Wolff's Blitzkrieg" !!!

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by SteveChester

I wonder at what point in this thread we are going to discuss what happened on lap 2-52

Lap 2 mate ?

MAX in the medical helicopter on his way to the hospital !

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

"Wolff's Blitzkrieg" !!!

Indeed my friend, there are apparently only two ''Stuka's'' left in the world but I'm sure he has a couple more at Bracklay

[tdott]

At the end of the day, fault doesn't matter in my opinion.

Does Max want to keeping getting DNFs while being not at fault?

I'm sure any other driver on the Grid will trade 2 penalty points for a race win if they could.

Let's see what happens.

Ham has 4 penalty points, with 2 being removed in Sept.
So he can take Max out 4-6 times, if he wanted to and since he does it with soo much precision, he can do it at any time he wants right.