[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by gilberjj

But you’re spewing total nonsense.
My electric car has already saved me thousands. You’re not going to convince me otherwise, because it’s a fact. I don’t see myself getting anything but an electric car if and when my current one dies or no longer serves our needs.

You could do to take a lesson from gblansten. He makes no apologies for his EV, it's fast and fun for him to drive so that is all he needs. All the smoke and mirrors about how cheap your EV is to run is just bull. But you certainly don't have to justify it to anyone just enjoy it for what it is.
My M4CS is not a sensible car, It eats tires, gas and is expensive to service and insure but it's what I want right now.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by ASAP

i know it's not apples for apples and people will get salty... but to this day, there is no cheaper form of automotive transport than a Toyota Corolla for 23k lol... and it gets 40 mpg hwy... virtually 0 maintanence... and you can sell it w 200k miles for 10k if that's still to expensive

You can drive it as far as you want and anywhere you want. And it recharges in less than 5 minutes.

[Sedoy]

...Meanwhile, Lucid Air Sapphire a 5300 lbs EV just set a new C&D 2024 Lightning Lap EV record and became the fastest four-door tested, only got beat by track monsters 911 GT3 Manthey Racing and 911 GT3 RS. Interesting times... Your move Tesla Plaid...

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ning-lap-2024/

[ibimmer954]

Originally Posted by Ugly Kar

Good for you, but for me it would take 9 years to make up the difference in price between an ICE and an equal EV even if the electricity were FREE! And certainly it's not.

But I'm also not looney enough to compare a cheap econobox to a very upscale luxury SUV and think I'm doing an apples to apples comparison.

My X4 is just as expensive as my i4 M50. There is no price difference. It's very Apples to Apples... My X4 M40i has 385hp and my i4 is over 500hp. Their cost was within two thousand dollars (about 3%). I don't mind paying slightly more for my electric when I getting even more performance.

It's just the operating cost on the i4 is several times (5x) less. Even if my electricity rates were to double the operating cost on the i4 would still be far less. I don't see electricity rates going up a lot without gas prices also going up. There are no oil changes and certainly less wear on the brakes in the i4 which are the main wear items in the X4. I guess the only place where the i4 is worse is that I burn through tires faster. But that's going to happen when you have double the torque off the line.

The major issue with the i4 is that the public charging (away from home) infrastructure sucks. It doesn't help that the current technology forces long waits to "refuel" the electric car. Adding 200 miles of range to a gas car takes a couple minutes. Adding 200 miles of range using DC Fast-Charge to today's electric vehicles can take anywhere from 20 to 40+ minutes not counting the wait time for public chargers. The wait time can be significant due to the scarcity of public chargers and the long "refuel" times.

So I wouldn't recommend a full electric vehicle as someone's only vehicle. Plug-in hybrid is much more reasonable in the current state of the world. Luckily I'm in a position where have the luxury of having an extra vehicle primarily for in-town use. Which, of course, is about 85+% of my driving time. While in-town I can drive for much less cost and recharge every night at home. Use the gas car for road trips.

[kyriian]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

You could do to take a lesson from gblansten. He makes no apologies for his EV, it's fast and fun for him to drive so that is all he needs. All the smoke and mirrors about how cheap your EV is to run is just bull. But you certainly don't have to justify it to anyone just enjoy it for what it is.
My M4CS is not a sensible car, It eats tires, gas and is expensive to service and insure but it's what I want right now.

This

Don't convince the internet how much you are 'saving' buying an EV and then try to convince others that it suits a crowd of random internet stranger's particular needs...

EV owners are hilarious

Love your EV? Good, go enjoy it and maybe don't try to covince others how much money you are saving when we all know fuel or electricity cost is only a part of the entire cost of ownership of a vehicle, that does include depreciation

Oh, maybe Onterrible is a little different, but I have not ONCE seen my electricity cost come down, but I can always find a cheaper pump elsewhere.

[Ugly Kar]

Originally Posted by ibimmer954

My X4 is just as expensive as my i4 M50. There is no price difference. It's very Apples to Apples... My X4 M40i has 385hp and my i4 is over 500hp. Their cost was within two thousand dollars (about 3%). I don't mind paying slightly more for my electric when I getting even more performance.

It's just the operating cost on the i4 is several times (5x) less. Even if my electricity rates were to double the operating cost on the i4 would still be far less. I don't see electricity rates going up a lot without gas prices also going up. There are no oil changes and certainly less wear on the brakes in the i4 which are the main wear items in the X4. I guess the only place where the i4 is worse is that I burn through tires faster. But that's going to happen when you have double the torque off the line.

The major issue with the i4 is that the public charging (away from home) infrastructure sucks. It doesn't help that the current technology forces long waits to "refuel" the electric car. Adding 200 miles of range to a gas car takes a couple minutes. Adding 200 miles of range using DC Fast-Charge to today's electric vehicles can take anywhere from 20 to 40+ minutes not counting the wait time for public chargers. The wait time can be significant due to the scarcity of public chargers and the long "refuel" times.

So I wouldn't recommend a full electric vehicle as someone's only vehicle. Plug-in hybrid is much more reasonable in the current state of the world. Luckily I'm in a position where have the luxury of having an extra vehicle primarily for in-town use. Which, of course, is about 85+% of my driving time. While in-town I can drive for much less cost and recharge every night at home. Use the gas car for road trips.

You were comparing an X5 to a Nissan Leaf.

[Ugly Kar]

Originally Posted by ASAP

i know it's not apples for apples and people will get salty... but to this day, there is no cheaper form of automotive transport than a Toyota Corolla for 23k lol... and it gets 40 mpg hwy... virtually 0 maintanence... and you can sell it w 200k miles for 10k if that's still to expensive

We're enthusiasts so our car is our hobby. A Corolla is an extremely practical option for anyone who uses a car just for simple transportation. It will be a much cheaper and more environmentally friendly option than any EV.

[kyriian]

Originally Posted by gilberjj

Less than 1/5 returning to ICE cars.... I think you're proving my point?
Again, EVs don't do everything as well as ICE cars. So some people are going to need to switch back (as the article states). Imagine you're owning/renting a house and then move to an apartment/condo. EVs probably won't work as well.
82% repop for an EV seems like a landslide W...

Simple, let's do the math.
MY vehicles in Washington state.
Car #1: 2011 BMW x5 35d
Car #2: 2013 Nissan Leaf

Current diesel price in Washington state: $4.50/gal
Current electricity price in Washington state: $0.08/kWh

x5 35d gets about 24 mpg. Therefore, $4.50 gets me 24 miles.
Leaf gets about 3.5 miles/kWh. Therefore $4.50/0.08=56.25 kWh
56.25 kWh * 3.5 miles/kWh = 196.9 miles

196.9/24 = 8.2

That means that it's 8.2 TIMES more expensive to drive my x5 (not including maintenance or repairs).

It's not even close. For those of us with cheap electricity, this technology shift is as monumental as the change from steam to ICE.

If you want to put your head in the sand, be my guest, but to suggest that a Malibu is as efficient and cheap to operate as an EV is willful ignorance. Sure there are gas cars that get 60 mpg, but even they are significantly more expensive to operate.

Originally Posted by Ugly Kar

You were comparing an X5 to a Nissan Leaf.

Different dude…

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by ibimmer954

My X4 is just as expensive as my i4 M50. There is no price difference. It's very Apples to Apples... My X4 M40i has 385hp and my i4 is over 500hp. Their cost was within two thousand dollars (about 3%). I don't mind paying slightly more for my electric when I getting even more performance.

It's just the operating cost on the i4 is several times (5x) less. Even if my electricity rates were to double the operating cost on the i4 would still be far less. I don't see electricity rates going up a lot without gas prices also going up. There are no oil changes and certainly less wear on the brakes in the i4 which are the main wear items in the X4. I guess the only place where the i4 is worse is that I burn through tires faster. But that's going to happen when you have double the torque off the line.

The major issue with the i4 is that the public charging (away from home) infrastructure sucks. It doesn't help that the current technology forces long waits to "refuel" the electric car. Adding 200 miles of range to a gas car takes a couple minutes. Adding 200 miles of range using DC Fast-Charge to today's electric vehicles can take anywhere from 20 to 40+ minutes not counting the wait time for public chargers. The wait time can be significant due to the scarcity of public chargers and the long "refuel" times.

So I wouldn't recommend a full electric vehicle as someone's only vehicle. Plug-in hybrid is much more reasonable in the current state of the world. Luckily I'm in a position where have the luxury of having an extra vehicle primarily for in-town use. Which, of course, is about 85+% of my driving time. While in-town I can drive for much less cost and recharge every night at home. Use the gas car for road trips.

So you bought a 2nd car as a $60,000 EV to save $1,000 annually on gasoline for around town driving? Can you see how some people don't see any savings here?

[eugenebmw]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

So you bought a 2nd car as a $60,000 EV to save $1,000 annually on gasoline for around town driving? Can you see how some people don't see any savings here?

Follow I guess this is what we call common sense nowadays

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

Death by a thousand Green cuts in the EU. Expect more.

The flood of Cheap China EV's will not be good for consumers, European auto manufactures or local fire departments.

It will be very interesting how Mercedes, BMW, Volkswagen Group and Citroen deal with this. Never thought I would be appreciative of the UAW in America but at least they kept the Dems from unleashing cheap China EV's directly on us for the time being.

[AmuroRay]

EVs aren’t about solving a problem (climate change is fake. Governments engage in climate engineering with weather modifications programs like praying aluminum in the air, using high frequency radio waves, and direct energy weapons).

There is no problem to solve, just problems they created and to provide a solution. The solution to 9/11 was to allow the government to spy on American citizens and track their travel despite the hijackers not being American.

So the whole point of getting people on a grid is to drastically raise costs and make them ration electricity. The idea is to have you completely dependent on them for everything.

You and I know this because you can’t save the planet by buying more junk.

[eugenebmw]

Originally Posted by ibimmer954

My X4 is just as expensive as my i4 M50. There is no price difference. It's very Apples to Apples... My X4 M40i has 385hp and my i4 is over 500hp. Their cost was within two thousand dollars (about 3%). I don't mind paying slightly more for my electric when I getting even more performance.

It's just the operating cost on the i4 is several times (5x) less. Even if my electricity rates were to double the operating cost on the i4 would still be far less. I don't see electricity rates going up a lot without gas prices also going up. There are no oil changes and certainly less wear on the brakes in the i4 which are the main wear items in the X4. I guess the only place where the i4 is worse is that I burn through tires faster. But that's going to happen when you have double the torque off the line.

The major issue with the i4 is that the public charging (away from home) infrastructure sucks. It doesn't help that the current technology forces long waits to "refuel" the electric car. Adding 200 miles of range to a gas car takes a couple minutes. Adding 200 miles of range using DC Fast-Charge to today's electric vehicles can take anywhere from 20 to 40+ minutes not counting the wait time for public chargers. The wait time can be significant due to the scarcity of public chargers and the long "refuel" times.

So I wouldn't recommend a full electric vehicle as someone's only vehicle. Plug-in hybrid is much more reasonable in the current state of the world. Luckily I'm in a position where have the luxury of having an extra vehicle primarily for in-town use. Which, of course, is about 85+% of my driving time. While in-town I can drive for much less cost and recharge every night at home. Use the gas car for road trips.

If you need to buy an EV to offset the cost of driving a ICE BMW. You have the idea wrong. You shouldn't be buying a ICE BMW to start with. May be a Honda Civic Just like if you are dating a super model, don't expect she is low maintenance and willing to eat fast food with you everyday so you can save money. You pay what you get. Food for thought

[gonzo]

lol

Knee-jerk bruises.

[M5Rick]

Teslas and other eV's feature a lot in very slow sellers from dealers. Main concerns from buyers are depreciation and if leasing the poor deals if you want to keep the vehicle.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

Money and power make the elites go round.

Yeah the 'elites' just say ''take it back I want something else', cost? phah that's just for the peasants to worry about.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Teslas and other eV's feature a lot in very slow sellers from dealers. Main concerns from buyers are depreciation and if leasing the poor deals if you want to keep the vehicle.

Just to clarify. You can't buy out a Tesla from a new lease per the contract. Just posting in case anyone wonders.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by gblansten

Just to clarify. You can't buy out a Tesla from a new lease per the contract. Just posting in case anyone wonders.

Never took on any vehicle on a lease, does that mean you must own it for 3 or so years then hand it back. I'm a newbie to this lease thing.

[Efthreeoh]

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Originally Posted by eugenebmw

Follow I guess this is what we call common sense nowadays

It's well known I have more than one car, but I've never claimed I bought one of them because it saved me money. In truth it's the complete opposite.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by gblansten

Just to clarify. You can't buy out a Tesla from a new lease per the contract. Just posting in case anyone wonders.

Okay, that's not clear (not a flame)... Are you saying the terms of the lease state the lessee cannot buy the Tesla at the end of the lease term, meaning you have to give the car back at the end of the lease? Akin to a "forced" close-end lease?

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Never took on any vehicle on a lease, does that mean you must own it for 3 or so years then hand it back. I'm a newbie to this lease thing.

Yes. But most leases for automobiles allow for an option to buy the vehicle at the end of the lease term.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Okay, that's not clear (not a flame)... Are you saying the terms of the lease state the lessee cannot buy the Tesla at the end of the lease term, meaning you have to give the car back at the end of the lease? Akin to a "forced" close-end lease?

Yes. When you lease from Tesla (and I am doing so) you do not have the option to buy the car at the end of the lease. You have to give the car back. This is standard for Tesla.