[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by blinkme323

lol, the EV6 GT will be just as expensive if not more than the M3P and performs worse. The cheapest Model 3 is also cheaper than the base EV6. Pricing in Canada must be wild.

That’s what I’m saying.

Very very hard to compete with Tesla. Other car makers can only try to out duel them with better interiors and bank on people just flat out hating on Tesla that even though the cars are better bank for buck, they just don’t wanna own one.

Car makers will catch up I’m sure.

[chad86tsi]

Tesla and Kia both made this list, I'll let you find them yourself.



Also, since we are here to discuss facts, fact is if you go to tesla's website and order a zero options Model 3 performance, and pay in cash, it will cost $64,440, which is more than $62,000. The model Y will cost $71, 440

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

Tesla and Kia both made this list, I'll let you find them yourself.



Also, since we are here to discuss facts, fact is if you go to tesla's website and order a zero options Model 3 performance, and pay in cash, it will cost $64,440, which is more than $62,000. The model Y will cost $71, 440

I have no desire for a Tesla (mostly because of their part support and repairs situation), but that list seems suspect-- particularly the placement of dodge, Toyota, VW, and honda.

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by Obioban

I have no desire for a Tesla (mostly because of their part support and repairs situation), but that list seems suspect-- particularly the placement of dodge, Toyota, VW, and honda.

OK, lets try a different source measuring similar but different data:



Or just do a google search :

https://www.google.com/search?q=tesl...A_enUS829US829

^ here I searched : "tesla quality ratings" , and then sorted by images to find some graphs.

Perhaps you can find something more desirable than I have.

[chad86tsi]

Here is one that's a year newer of the same data set. Look at that, Tesla improved, good job Tesla.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by Obioban

I have no desire for a Tesla (mostly because of their part support and repairs situation), but that list seems suspect-- particularly the placement of dodge, Toyota, VW, and honda.

It is. Dodge over Honda and Toyota?

Talk about a shitty resource just to talk shit about Tesla.

Sales figures don’t lie. The model y is fucking killing it now.

[TboneS54]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

No, I'm not misleading any one. I've never said Anthropogenic climate change is a hoax. I've been discussing the climate change topic on this forum for over a decade. In fact I was most likely the first member here to use the word Anthropogenic (9/27/2009 - I checked) when discussing the topic because one has to be accurate when discussing climate change. As most versed people agree, geological evidence points to the fact the Earth's climate changes by natural causes, both within the planet's internal forces (gravity, radioactive heat, plate tectonics, greenhouse effect, etc.) and external forces (deviations in rotation, axial tilt, orbit, solar radiation, etc.). Climate change is one of the subjects I find most fascinating along with the internal combustion engine, so you can understand my internal conflict.

I became quite interested in climate change because as a teenager in the 1970s I was told the Earth was cooling and food shortages were soon to result. I pretty much thought as a young person that global cooling sucked. Now recently in another thread in the social media forum, H20doc made a claim that the 1970s global cooling scientific meme was a hoax and over blown. Sure enough, an internet check in 2022 says it was. The only problem is I lived in the 1970s as a scientifically conscious young person, so i remember it very well the global cooling theories were quite prominent topics of the day.

Also in the 1970s we were told the planet was running out of oil and gasoline costs were going to skyrocket and in 30 years or so and humans would be unable to rely on petroleum fuels. Yet in the past 40 years I've been driving, the inflation-adjusted price of gasoline has remained flat, even with 3 increases of the Federal fuel tax.

So, armed with such personally experienced empirical data, I've concluded that "scientific" doomsday advocates like to BS people, I tend not to take credit in what they say.

Now with climate change, the climate fearers say humans are causing climate change. When called on it, that climate change causation is mostly natural, the more recent response from the fearers is the rate of change of the climate is the problem and the root cause is anthropogenic.

Considering humans exist on the planet as a result of natural climate change and the GHG effect makes the planet inhabitable for us, for the past 40,000 years or so hominids have existed on the Earth, if you and H20doc believe humans can control the climate via adjustment of GHG emissions, I simply have asked numerous times what is your target GHG state for the ideal human survivable climate is (which means static). Your ideal climate must be static (meaning some narrow window climatically speaking) because fossil evidence shows animal life changes in response to climate and most (99%) species have naturally gone extinct. Yet your position is that by controlling the climate, we humans can break that cycle and stay un-extinct.

So again, I'm simply asking what your ideal climate target is and how are we going to get there and then maintain it? Based on all the study I've done in college and post college I don't believe man can devise the algorithm that defines the target climate you seek let alone devise the mechanism in which to adjust the climate. When in consideration of the vast and massive natural forces that do affect the planet's climate, I don't think you and your colleagues can devise and execute a plan to do what you think you can do.

My skepticism is completely 100% based in science.

Crickets

[chassis]

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

Tesla and Kia both made this list, I'll let you find them yourself.



Also, since we are here to discuss facts, fact is if you go to tesla's website and order a zero options Model 3 performance, and pay in cash, it will cost $64,440, which is more than $62,000. The model Y will cost $71, 440

Further evidence, despite the fact further evidence is not needed, that MB is junk. And people keep buying them.

[chassis]

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

OK, lets try a different source measuring similar but different data:



Or just do a google search :

https://www.google.com/search?q=tesl...A_enUS829US829

^ here I searched : "tesla quality ratings" , and then sorted by images to find some graphs.

Perhaps you can find something more desirable than I have.

Another MB = rubbish example

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

It is. Dodge over Honda and Toyota?

Talk about a shitty resource just to talk shit about Tesla.

so let's see some non-shitty sources, mr. facts.

Sales figures don’t lie. The model y is fucking killing it now.

Yah, them and Walmart, Dollar General, family dollar, and the dollar store are all experiencing record sales. They all must have something in common....

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

so let's see some non-shitty sources, mr. facts.

https://www.jdpower.com/cars/2022/tesla/model-s

Seems to do just as good as a 5 series.

https://www.jdpower.com/cars/2022/tesla/model-3

M3 does ok.


https://www.jdpower.com/cars/2022/tesla/model-y

Not as good as the model s but better than the 3.

Like i said model y sales are killing it.

Yah, them and Walmart, Dollar General, family dollar, and the dollar store are all experiencing record sales. They all must have something in common....

Cool, and tesla's come with a premium price, in a time where people think EV's are still expensive. When people like you talk shit about tesla and their "bad build quality and ugly looks" and yet people STILL buy them. 60k+ model 3 performances? No problem, people buy them. Model y's which cost more? No problem, best selling tesla so far. Model s? Setting the new standard for a big sedan with power. Because we can't forget a plaid. The gold standard when it comes to performance. Everyone chases it, everyone modifies their car to beat one, and everyone is scared to run into one on the road. A rolling 9 second fucking monster that will make any car on the road look like shit lol. That's your "ugly design bad quality" car you guys hate so much.

God damn i fucking love elon for making plaids

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

https://www.jdpower.com/cars/2022/tesla/model-s

Seems to do just as good as a 5 series.

You sure bro?

The BMW which you failed to link (on purpose?) rates 5-series Quality and reliability at 84 on that same scale where an S is 75. That's a huge difference.

Here is the link you forgot:
https://www.jdpower.com/cars/2022/bmw/5-series

Using your same source, the Model-s (75), the model 3 (75), and model Y (73) are all worse than the EV6 (77) that we were just comparing it to on the "quality and reliability" metric.

Like i said model y sales are killing it.

Yes, cheap beer sales are up too. Strange and desperate times for sure. Pointing out that the one with the worst reliability and quality ratings of the lot is also the best seller may not be the compliment to the brand that you think it is.

God damn i fucking love elon for making plaids

Does Elon do a courtesy reach-around, or are you all on your own there?

When people like you talk shit about tesla and their "bad build quality and ugly looks" and yet people STILL buy them.

That's your "ugly design bad quality" car you guys hate so much.

I've never mentioned their ugly looks, but thanks for pointing it out

[G MONEY]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

https://www.jdpower.com/cars/2022/tesla/model-s

Seems to do just as good as a 5 series.

https://www.jdpower.com/cars/2022/tesla/model-3

M3 does ok.


https://www.jdpower.com/cars/2022/tesla/model-y

Not as good as the model s but better than the 3.

Like i said model y sales are killing it.

Cool, and tesla's come with a premium price, in a time where people think EV's are still expensive. When people like you talk shit about tesla and their "bad build quality and ugly looks" and yet people STILL buy them. 60k+ model 3 performances? No problem, people buy them. Model y's which cost more? No problem, best selling tesla so far. Model s? Setting the new standard for a big sedan with power. Because we can't forget a plaid. The gold standard when it comes to performance. Everyone chases it, everyone modifies their car to beat one, and everyone is scared to run into one on the road. A rolling 9 second fucking monster that will make any car on the road look like shit lol. That's your "ugly design bad quality" car you guys hate so much.

God damn i fucking love elon for making plaids

Yawn

[H2O_Doc]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

No, I'm not misleading any one. I've never said Anthropogenic climate change is a hoax. I've been discussing the climate change topic on this forum for over a decade. In fact I was most likely the first member here to use the word Anthropogenic (9/27/2009 - I checked) when discussing the topic because one has to be accurate when discussing climate change. As most versed people agree, geological evidence points to the fact the Earth's climate changes by natural causes, both within the planet's internal forces (gravity, radioactive heat, plate tectonics, greenhouse effect, etc.) and external forces (deviations in rotation, axial tilt, orbit, solar radiation, etc.). Climate change is one of the subjects I find most fascinating along with the internal combustion engine, so you can understand my internal conflict.

I became quite interested in climate change because as a teenager in the 1970s I was told the Earth was cooling and food shortages were soon to result. I pretty much thought as a young person that global cooling sucked. Now recently in another thread in the social media forum, H20doc made a claim that the 1970s global cooling scientific meme was a hoax and over blown. Sure enough, an internet check in 2022 says it was. The only problem is I lived in the 1970s as a scientifically conscious young person, so i remember it very well the global cooling theories were quite prominent topics of the day.

Also in the 1970s we were told the planet was running out of oil and gasoline costs were going to skyrocket and in 30 years or so and humans would be unable to rely on petroleum fuels. Yet in the past 40 years I've been driving, the inflation-adjusted price of gasoline has remained flat, even with 3 increases of the Federal fuel tax.

So, armed with such personally experienced empirical data, I've concluded that "scientific" doomsday advocates like to BS people, I tend not to take credit in what they say.

Now with climate change, the climate fearers say humans are causing climate change. When called on it, that climate change causation is mostly natural, the more recent response from the fearers is the rate of change of the climate is the problem and the root cause is anthropogenic.

Considering humans exist on the planet as a result of natural climate change and the GHG effect makes the planet inhabitable for us, for the past 40,000 years or so hominids have existed on the Earth, if you and H20doc believe humans can control the climate via adjustment of GHG emissions, I simply have asked numerous times what is your target GHG state for the ideal human survivable climate is (which means static). Your ideal climate must be static (meaning some narrow window climatically speaking) because fossil evidence shows animal life changes in response to climate and most (99%) species have naturally gone extinct. Yet your position is that by controlling the climate, we humans can break that cycle and stay un-extinct.

So again, I'm simply asking what your ideal climate target is and how are we going to get there and then maintain it? Based on all the study I've done in college and post college I don't believe man can devise the algorithm that defines the target climate you seek let alone devise the mechanism in which to adjust the climate. When in consideration of the vast and massive natural forces that do affect the planet's climate, I don't think you and your colleagues can devise and execute a plan to do what you think you can do.

My skepticism is completely 100% based in science.

Not +4°C.

[gatorfast]

lol at this Tesla shill trolling all the EV threads

[G30M]

Originally Posted by blinkme323

lol, the EV6 GT will be just as expensive if not more than the M3P and performs worse. The cheapest Model 3 is also cheaper than the base EV6. Pricing in Canada must be wild.

it's a different car.

think Audi (=EV6 GT) vs Honda (=TM3P)

I have tested a GT Line (not the GT GT) and hands down you'd think you're in a Merc if you were blindfolded. once you open your eyes it's not.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

You sure bro?

The BMW which you failed to link (on purpose?) rates 5-series Quality and reliability at 84 on that same scale where an S is 75. That's a huge difference.

Here is the link you forgot:
https://www.jdpower.com/cars/2022/bmw/5-series

Using your same source, the Model-s (75), the model 3 (75), and model Y (73) are all worse than the EV6 (77) that we were just comparing it to on the "quality and reliability" metric.





Yes, cheap beer sales are up too. Strange and desperate times for sure. Pointing out that the one with the worst reliability and quality ratings of the lot is also the best seller may not be the compliment to the brand that you think it is.





Does Elon do a courtesy reach-around, or are you all on your own there?



I've never mentioned their ugly looks, but thanks for pointing it out

The post wasnt to point out it’s better than bmw, it’s to debunk your link that Tesla ranks last.

I totally get the hate for Tesla. It’s not for everyone.

But Jesus Christ do you guys like getting buried in these threads?

Show me where Tesla is slowing down? And show me a car company that surpasses Tesla it all depts. or at least a majority for its price point.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

lol at this Tesla shill trolling all the EV threads

I don’t need to shill for an ev car company that’s still on the top

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

The post wasnt to point out it’s better than bmw, it’s to debunk your link that Tesla ranks last.

And you used a link to show it "Seems to do just as good as a 5 series", which clearly it does not, not even very close.

I'm glad you found some data from non-shitty sources that show the same thing I was saying, that they rank low (and often at or near the bottom) on most all studies about quality of build and reliability. Thanks for the support.

Using your same source JD Power: I found another graph, it measures initial quality which is a silghtly different but relevant measure. and oh look, tesla is not on the bottom of this one. Good Job Tesla :



Don't you think its strange you used the same shitty source source : JD Power: that I did? I do.

show me a car company that surpasses Tesla it all depts. or at least a majority for its price point.

I think the "majority" part has already been fulfilled, but I don't think you are ready to believe so I'll just let that rest.

How about you show me a car company that Tesla surpasses in all depts. or at least a majority for its price point.

[BGM-M3COMP]

That was the whole point of me posting those links, it’s the same source as yours duhhh lol

Dude your argument was crushed pages ago so no sense going back and forth.

You still fail to show proof of any car maker ahead of tesla. So you throw irrelevant shit like build quality that I ever said Tesla was perfect at. Another aimless attempt at going off topic so you’re able to participate in this thread.

Tesla is the leading ev car maker. Fact.

The best value for performance, range and network at the price point. Fact.

Nothing else you guys can say. You lost the debate a while ago.

It’s ok because you have a chance at a comeback when car makers catch up. I’m sure they will.

[Cos270]

As much as I disagree with the recent discussion of Tesla's supremacy in the EV market place, I will say that if a company is given, for all intents and purposes, a blank check and next to no competition, I'd certainly hope that after a decade they would be at the top. The rate at which they will be replaced is going to make people's heads spin.

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

That was the whole point of me posting those links, it’s the same source as yours duhhh lol

Just so I can follow along on your 4D chess match, lets recap:

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

Talk about a shitty resource just to talk shit about Tesla.
.

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

so let's see some non-shitty sources, mr. facts.

You post up some sources :

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

Seems to do just as good as a 5 series.

M3 does ok.

Not as good as the model s but better than the 3.

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

And you used a link to show it "Seems to do just as good as a 5 series", which clearly it does not, not even very close.

So, since I can't follow along due to all your crushing and winning, are you not able to find a non-shitty source, so you decided to use a reverse-uno card on me and used the same source I did (which agrees with me), or are Teslas really just that bad and you can't find a reputable source that disagrees with me (and so many others)?

Keep in mind, this data comes from actual tesla owners being polled. It's not my data, it's Tesla owner data.

You still fail to show proof of any car maker ahead of tesla.

You still fail to show proof of tesla being ahead of all other car makers, unless you use narrow criteria, in which case any car maker can be proven to be better than tesla with a similar narrowed-criteria approach.

If you have to move the goal post to win, you aren't winning.

So you throw irrelevant shit like build quality that I ever said Tesla was perfect at. Another aimless attempt at going off topic so you’re able to participate in this thread.

^ Seriously thinking about making the bolded part my new signature.

If a car or brand is claimed to be "the best", I presume things like build quality might be a consideration.