[///M Power-Belgium]

Welcome back Kevin !

[irunalot]

Good to see KMag happy. Hopefully the Haas warrants the smile.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Welcome back Kevin !

Great pic of him with baby Laura

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

I'm not sure, Russ finished ahead of HAM in both FP's so unless HAM slowed on purpose to open up tomorrow Russ is taking to the new car better.

Ham was complaining of braking pulling to the right. He had numerous lock ups. His car also was porpoising the worse out of all cars in FP1 and FP2. Russ seemed to handle the windy conditions a little better.

[irunalot]

Here is a good FP review from Peter Windsor. Seems to be more and more people talking about the RB front suspension as the geometry actually increases dive this helping with turn in.

Even Peter Windsor who loves Merc says the car is really bad. Man here comes a long season....

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Great pic of him with baby Laura

My big screen is on , I'll be watching Drive2Survive Episodes 6-10 ..

I'm warming up for the weekend...

Let's pull it to the 'MAX (1) !

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by F87source

So honestly I don't see how it could be a side pod issue, I've read up alot about it but no one seems to peg the side pod as the issue, porpoising is most definitely a floor issue. Because side pod air flow is easy to observe in CFD and the wind tunnel to see if it's doing what it's supposed to. But the floor isn't because you can't run ride heights super low in the tunnel.

I have seen some saying Ferrari side pod design could be helping get around the porpoising. The partial loss of downforce due to the lifting of the floor from the track to avoid bouncing, is partly compensated by the load the side pods are able to produce.

If you look at RB18 with side pods off today. Red Bull could easily shrink their side pods by quite a lot, but Newey seems to think that is not the direction. Binotto says Ferrari ditched the no side pod design early in R&D.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by irunalot

Here is a good FP review from Peter Windsor. Seems to be more and more people talking about the RB front suspension as the geometry actually increases dive this helping with turn in.

Everyone so distracted by side pod designs, when suspension rule changes might the biggest factor in 2022.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by M3WC

Ham was complaining of braking pulling to the right. He had numerous lock ups. His car also was porpoising the worse out of all cars in FP1 and FP2. Russ seemed to handle the windy conditions a little better.

Yep, the problem vividly seen in post 626.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

My big screen is on , I'll be watching Drive2Survive Episodes 6-10 ..

I'm warming up for the weekend...

Let's pull it to the 'MAX (1) !

Max says he's not impressed with it

[MontyB1]

Originally Posted by M3WC

Everyone so distracted by side pod designs, when suspension rule changes might the biggest factor in 2022.

Yeah agreed the way the car rides and controls the ride height in these new regs is critical. Which is why Merc has got the sidepods right but other elements obviously not. Going to be a great season of swings and roundabouts.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by M3WC

I have seen some saying Ferrari side pod design could be helping get around the porpoising. The partial loss of downforce due to the lifting of the floor from the track to avoid bouncing, is partly compensated by the load the side pods are able to produce.

If you look at RB18 with side pods off today. Red Bull could easily shrink their side pods by quite a lot, but Newey seems to think that is not the direction. Binotto says Ferrari ditched the no side pod design early in R&D.

Here's what the F1 technical CFD renderings had to say:
https://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30249

The main gains were a 50% drop in drag vs. the base model fia demo car, and more pressure on the floor due to the down wash.


The merc design does the same thing, reduces drag and creates down wash + out wash to build pressure on top of the floor and deal with wake.


But there is no way the side pods produce enough meaningful down force to compensate for when the floor stalls, because when the floor stalls you don't lose a tiny bit of downforce you loose a vast majority of it because the air flow literally stalls and you don't get the lamanar flow you need for the venturi effect to work anymore, and the car rapidly rises allowing for the air to reattach and that rapidly pushes it back down as downforce is generated again. Look at the CFD data nowhere remotely near the down force produced by the wings.



You also have to remember each team has a different aero concept based on their overall packaging, just because one team can't do something doesn't mean another team also cannot do it. Remember merc spent alot of time with the engine and cooling to fully make those side pods disappear, who knows if ferrari were able to even think about engine packaging and cooling when they were down on power for so long that power recovery was likely their main objective. So maybe their zero pod idea was unsuccessful because the engine couldn't be packaged tight enough to buy enough room for their radiators to be tucked in deep enough, and maybe their engine needed more cooling thus the radiators needed more surface area all resulting in a larger side pod which didn't play well with the aero down stream so their best solution was to run with the side pod design. Redbull also could have a different aero philosophy.

But mercedes have always been known to have a different aero philosophy that played out well so far (low rake long cars) and that producded the best f1 car in the history of the sport in the w11. So I'm sure mercedes knows what they're doing.

[irunalot]

If you compare the Merc from last run last week to this week they have made progress, just not nearly enough and that last 5-10% can be the most challenging.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by M3WC

I have seen some saying Ferrari side pod design could be helping get around the porpoising. The partial loss of downforce due to the lifting of the floor from the track to avoid bouncing, is partly compensated by the load the side pods are able to produce.

If you look at RB18 with side pods off today. Red Bull could easily shrink their side pods by quite a lot, but Newey seems to think that is not the direction. Binotto says Ferrari ditched the no side pod design early in R&D.

Also hypothetically if the side pods were able to produce massive downforce on their own independent of the floor - which they cannot because they don't have the ability to generate significant zones of high and low pressure (and if you have low pressure below the side pod you canabilize performance of the floor as you want high pressure above the floor and blow the side pods to increase the pressure differential from below the floor vs. above the floor). But even if the side pods were able to produce massive down force to the extent when the car porpoises and the floor stalls the side pods downforce was great enough to keep the car down and not allow it to bounce back up. This is a very stupid design, because what it implies is that the floor will still be stalling and thus won't be able to produce effective down force and all the downforce now being made is from the side pods and wings. You're literally throwing away a bunch of downforce from the floor to avoid porpoising. This approach essentially is throwing away the floor and just relying on over body aero which means you're throwing away the largest down force producing element on the car.


So again this approach isn't realistic even if it was possible. But that's not the role of the side pod, its main down force producing job is to produce outwash to push away the wake, down wash to increase the pressure on-top of the floor, produce down wash to generate vortices to seal the floor, and feed clean air to the beam wing, diffuser and the rear of the car.

[Killed by Death]

Race prediction:

VER takes out LeCrash

MB sabotages Russel boy right out the gate with mechanical failure

Hammy gifted a lame win

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

Race prediction:

VER takes out LeCrash

MB sabotages Russel boy right out the gate with mechanical failure

Hammy gifted a lame win

Holy moly what a prediction. If you get this right buy me some lotto tickets or at the very least pick some lotto numbers for me.


My prediction is Haas 1-2.

[Foghorn]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

Race prediction:

VER takes out LeCrash

MB sabotages Russel boy right out the gate with mechanical failure

Hammy gifted a lame win

Bold predictions all around . Would be entertaining if it turned out that way.

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by F87source

Holy moly what a prediction. If you get this right buy me some lotto tickets or at the very least pick some lotto numbers for me.


My prediction is Haas 1-2.

I'm down with a HAAS win especially if it's MSC

HAAS NA is headquartered about 20 minutes from my home in North Carolina...Sentimental favorite

[MontyB1]

Hey I think Haas is going to surprise a few people. If Merc get into the 2nd row they will do well, this is Redbull and Ferraris to lose.

McLaren also have a lot of work to do they are struggling for reasons I’m not sure they understand.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

I'm down with a HAAS win especially if it's MSC

HAAS NA is headquartered about 20 minutes from my home in North Carolina...Sentimental favorite

Oh yeah I could get down with a msc win. Those Haas look fast no joke.

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by F87source

Oh yeah I could get down with a msc win. Those Haas look fast no joke.

Keep hoping I'll walk into the local hooters and have a beer with MSC and Gunther

None of the Rednecks here would know who they are

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

Race prediction:

VER takes out LeCrash

MB sabotages Russel boy right out the gate with mechanical failure

Hammy gifted a lame win

Actually predictions are really interesting at this point.

Anyone else dare to give a prediction for the results on sunday? (I don't know if there already have been any; if so, please post again )
(so before anyone has seen the qualifying, so predicting before we've really seen what the cars can do )

My prediction:

1. VER
2. HAM
3. SAI