[msk340i]

I’m not trying to defend HAM but one thing on his side is telemetry. He actually lifted before VER and he slammed the brakes before the collision while VER was hard on the loud and with steering lock aiming at the apex disregarding the existence of a car to his right.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by msk340i

I’m not trying to defend HAM but one thing on his side is telemetry. He actually lifted before VER and he slammed the brakes before the collision while VER was hard on the loud and with steering lock aiming at the apex disregarding the existence of a car to his right.

HAM ran 14 km/h faster than MAX to dive into Copse .

•HAM => 315 km/h
•MAX => 301 km/h

HAM was (a lot) faster on the straight . That's why he dived too fast into Copse .
The rest we know by now .

MAX's onboard and onboard radio after the dead silence ....

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by msk340i

I’m not trying to defend HAM but one thing on his side is telemetry. He actually lifted before VER and he slammed the brakes before the collision while VER was hard on the loud and with steering lock aiming at the apex disregarding the existence of a car to his right.

You would think one would need to lift and brake earlier if you are traveling at a higher rate of speed going into the corner.

[yco]

Originally Posted by hellrotm

You would think one would need to lift and brake earlier if you are traveling at a higher rate of speed going into the corner.

you dont lift much earlier and brake that much earlier just because of 5-10kmh difference.. since he was inside he did as well.. so with the data we have.. he did everything right before the corner.. Max thought Lewis has a ghost car it appears..

[minn19]

Originally Posted by yco

you dont lift much earlier and brake that much earlier just because of 5-10kmh difference.. since he was inside he did as well.. so with the data we have.. he did everything right before the corner.. Max thought Lewis has a ghost car it appears..

Agreed, I can’t imagine it takes a lot for a F1 car to scrub off 8-9 MPH.

They still completely ignore that Max was going faster when the collision happened and in a worse spot in the corner but refused to give up.

[5.M0NSTER]

Wow, this thread is STILL going? to the tail end hurt max fans.

Here is my final through, and then I will walk myself out.

You ready?

It's amazing how in a single instant, a 7 time World Champion re-establishes his dominance.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by minn19

Agreed, I can’t imagine it takes a lot for a F1 car to scrub off 8-9 MPH.

They still completely ignore that Max was going faster when the collision happened and in a worse spot in the corner but refused to give up.

This. Lifting off the throttle gives 1 g of braking in an F1 car. Just like slamming on full ABS in an average family sedan.

[racerbruce]

Breaking News -
While Europe slept last eve, VER has apologized to HAM for ramming HAM at Copse turn at the recent British GP.

VER has agreed to take a knee at the pre-race acknowledgement of "we race as one" to end racism.

RBR has apologized to MB and all parties will gather soon for a BBQ.

Editor's note: None of the information in this announcement is verified to be true.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by racerbruce

Breaking News -
While Europe slept last eve, VER has apologized to HAM for ramming HAM at Copse turn at the recent British GP.

VER has agreed to take a knee at the pre-race acknowledgement of "we race as one" to end racism.

RBR has apologized to MB and all parties will gather soon for a BBQ.

Editor's note: None of the information in this announcement is verified to be true.

Continuing the theme from many posters with an affinity for a certain energy drinks themed F1 manufacturer.

Bravo good sir. BRAVO!!

[yco]

Originally Posted by racerbruce

Breaking News -
While Europe slept last eve, VER has apologized to HAM for ramming HAM at Copse turn at the recent British GP.

VER has agreed to take a knee at the pre-race acknowledgement of "we race as one" to end racism.

RBR has apologized to MB and all parties will gather soon for a BBQ.

Editor's note: None of the information in this announcement is verified to be true.

too good to be true... ?

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by yco

too good to be true... ?

As usual : 'BS brought on by Sir7Hammy-Gurus !

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by minn19

They still completely ignore that Max was going faster when the collision happened and in a worse spot in the corner but refused to give up.

That doesnt mean anything.
The RB can drive faster through most corners than the MB
Of course he was going faster.

HAM drove into his rear tyre while still having lots of room on the inside (almost 2 meters I estimate)
That's why he was more at fault and got penalized by the FIA.
If he had been more on the inside the crash wouldn't have happened. VER left room for him.



HAM even could have taken the curbs, adding another meter. So there was almost as much room to fit yet another car in there.

At ANY time there was enough room between VER car and the side of the track to fit a car in there.
HAM just wanted to take that corner at too high speed (otherwise he would not be able to pass VER...), needing more space than required (also missed the apex) and crashing into VER car resulting in VER leaving the track at 300kph.
Those are the facts, making HAM the guilty party and the reason he got penalized.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

That doesnt mean anything.
The RB can drive faster through most corners than the MB
Of course he was going faster.

HAM drove into his rear tyre while still having lots of room on the inside (almost 2 meters I estimate)
That's why he was more at fault and got penalized by the FIA.
If he had been more on the inside the crash wouldn't have happened. VER left room for him.



HAM even could have taken the curbs, adding another meter. So there was almost as much room to fit yet another car in there.

Telemetry or pictures with pointy arrows.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

Telemetry or pictures with pointy arrows.

What do you mean?
In my picture it's clear what the F1 car is and what the grass is right?
There are so many pictures and video footage of this crash, and in any of them it shows that HAM was not completely on the inside.
At any time there is extra room on the inside and if he used that room his front wheel and VER rear wheel wouldn't have touched.
That is why he got penalized; because he didn't use that room, even missing the apex. I think the FIA explained that.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

That doesnt mean anything.
The RB can drive faster through most corners than the MB
Of course he was going faster.

HAM drove into his rear tyre while still having lots of room on the inside (almost 2 meters I estimate)
That's why he was more at fault and got penalized by the FIA.
If he had been more on the inside the crash wouldn't have happened. VER left room for him.



HAM even could have taken the curbs, adding another meter. So there was almost as much room to fit yet another car in there.

At ANY time there was enough room between VER car and the side of the track to fit a car in there.
HAM just wanted to take that corner at too high speed (otherwise he would not be able to pass VER...), needing more space than required (also missed the apex) and crashing into VER car resulting in VER leaving the track at 300kph.
Those are the facts, making HAM the guilty party and the reason he got penalized.

Are you literally saying this crap when your own pic shows meters of open track to the left of VER? Please, I know you are a fan boy to but you are ignoring a ton of evidence such as VER continuing to turn in as if HAM wasn’t even there, plus per rules HAM was more than enough along side heading into the corner. It does matter, just not to you for obvious reasons.

Before you continue to say the stewards ruled blah blah blah, refs get calls wrong all the time.

I can’t wait until RBR is dumb enough to sue them or whatever and a real forensic investigation of the evidence happens. I’m guessing RBR and it’s fans won’t like the outcome in the end.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

What do you mean?
In my picture it's clear what the F1 car is and what the grass is right?
There are so many pictures and video footage of this crash, and in any of them it shows that HAM was not completely on the inside.
At any time there is extra room on the inside and if he used that room his front wheel and VER rear wheel wouldn't have touched.
That is why he got penalized; because he didn't use that room, even missing the apex. I think the FIA explained that.

Your picture is AFTER the collision. Show a picture of their positioning before the collision. Include steering position of VERs steering wheel at the time of impact. Go back and read Palmer's assessment.

This was a racing incident. Nearly every F1 driver says so.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

Show a picture of their positioning before the collision.

Still easily enough room.



Remember, HAM tries to overtake VER, not the other way round.
VER can follow the racing line as long as he leaves room for HAM, which there is.

It's not a racing incedent because the organisation that gets to call whether it's or not, decided that it's not.
In the end it's that simple. That's why there is an organisation that acts as a referee.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Still easily enough room.



Remember, HAM tries to overtake VER, not the other way round.
VER can follow the racing line as long as he leaves room for HAM, which there is.
I think it's strange that you question the FIA's decision.
Of course you can, anyone can. But it's the FIA's call.

Do you think large organizations and those working in them are infallible?

Go back to some of the horrible and politically motivated decisions they've made in the last decade, alone.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

Do you think large organizations and those working in them are infallible?

Go back to some of the horrible and politically motivated decisions they've made in the last decade, alone.

I think Mercedes Benz is a larger organisation than the FIA.

And Mercedes Benz has made some horrible and politically motivated decisions in the past....

But all this has nothing to do with the FIA's decision.
they have the mandate to judge over this, they have and they have motivated their decision. No horrible or political words were used in that. It was mainly HAM fault. That's why he got the penalty.
And the pictures show that at ANY time there was enough room on the inside for HAM. He just decided not to use that room. So his front wheel touched VER rear wheel.
Clear case to me.
You act like VER ran HAM off the track.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

I think Mercedes Benz is a larger organisation than the FIA.

And Mercedes Benz has made some horrible and politically motivated decisions in the past....

But all this has nothing to do with the FIA's decision.
they have the mandate to judge over this, they have and they have motivated their decision. No horrible or political words were used in that. It was mainly HAM fault. That's why he got the penalty.
And the pictures show that at ANY time there was enough room on the inside for HAM. He just decided not to use that room. So his front wheel touched VER rear wheel.
Clear case to me.
You act like VER ran HAM off the track.

VER helped run himself off the track. Had he lessened up just a bit on his steering angle they probably wouldn’t of touched. Part of the things you ignore is all the actions leading up to this. This didn’t happen in a vacuum. HAM has had to move or check up several times this year to avoid a collision due to Max’s aggressive/borderline dirty driving. Spain being the biggest example IIRC. Lewis avoided a collision/backed off and got Max for the win later. This is what a lot of us are saying he needs to learn to do. You even stated RB was much faster in the corners so why not let him by and get him later, MBs in race strategy hasn’t been great to say the least either. Do you really believe he (Max) is faultless in this incident?

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by minn19

This is what a lot of us are saying he needs to learn to do.

It's interesting that the current leader in the F1 championship needs to take pointers of some guys on some forums...
Especially on things the FIA says was HAM fault.

Let's see what happens next race.

Originally Posted by minn19

Do you really believe he (Max) is faultless in this incident?

It doesn't matter what I believe. What matters is what the FIA believes. They have the final word on this.
If you don't agree, it's the FIA you need to convince, not me.
And the FIA was pretty clear: HAM should have driven another line. That's why he was penalized and that's why it's not a racing incident.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

It's interesting that the current leader in the F1 championship needs to take pointers of some guys on some forums...
Especially on things the FIA says was HAM fault.

Really you are going with that? I remember you being one of the most level headed posters in the old poly/sci section. Interesting take indeed, I really didn’t think you were like the other guys in here that stoop to these kinds of posts. I was wrong, I guess they should just shut this section down to since none of us are F1 drivers etc and apparently have nothing to talk about.