[pkimM3r]

who learns about presidents in college? i blasted out the easy nothing to do with work classes and then studied mathematics of finance, statistics, etc. although at work we use algebra only LOL.

i work with ppl from top notch mba programs. in the end, if you just dont get it, you just dont get it, no matter where you are from. if it takes a harvard mba 2 hours to something someone else can do in 30 minutes, ill take the person who can bang it out quickly and accurately than some person with a diploma on the wall.

[MrPrena]

Any sh1t can be self taught.

Look at Michael Faraday (Physicist). This guy is self taught, He didn't even attend univ/college, and became one of the most important physicist of all time. Even Albert Einstein posted his picture on his study hall. I bet not a lot of electrical engineers actually understand most of his work.

However, anyone here who is bragging about how much more they make or how smarter they are relative to whatever higher edu is just silly.
If you were that freaking smart, you would NOT be working in order to receive a damn paycheck (or write your own paycheck, or ask a damn BOD/General Partners/Chairman or whatever the F for a raise). I know some of you who brag about how much you guys make are anxiously waiting for your next paycheck.

[Nkc]

Everything should be based on ROI.

If the parents are wealthy enough to finance schooling then hell yes, all the way baby. Degrees these days are equivalent to a high school diploma 20-30 years ago. Standards are higher nowadays so might as well have all the credentials before stepping in to the real world. People with higher education are always going to get a leg up on things. They're not necessarily smarter or more knowledgeable, its just the hiring process is much easier when you filter out the college/non college grads. Just a fact of life. Sad fact is that a masters degree may be the norm in the near future.

If you can't afford the education (parents can't) then you better be smart enough or athletic enough to get a full scholarship. If not, then its just better to get a head start in the working world and gain that valued experience in the field that you want to focus on. Use your misfortune as a motivation to work harder. Drive yourself to achieve more. Its never too late to get a degree later in life if your job truly requires one.

As I said before, I really don't see a correlation between wealth and education (especially in HK). I'm not talking about being comfortable but rather bring rich/filthy rich/wealthy. I'd like to see some data on the relationship between the top 1%, top 0.5%, and top 0.1% correlation against education.

Btw, how many times are we gonna talk about this topic?

[Billup]

I should also note, college isn't worth it if you do side work in the adult entertainment industry like myself.



No knowledge needed about anything, and you could do pretty well for yourself. JUS SAYIN.

[Seminole]

Originally Posted by MrPrena

Any sh1t can be self taught.

Look at Michael Faraday (Physicist). This guy is self taught, He didn't even attend univ/college, and became one of the most important physicist of all time. Even Albert Einstein posted his picture on his study hall. I bet not a lot of electrical engineers actually understand most of his work.

However, anyone here who is bragging about how much more they make or how smarter they are relative to whatever higher edu is just silly.
If you were that freaking smart, you would NOT be working in order to receive a damn paycheck (or write your own paycheck, or ask a damn BOD/General Partners/Chairman or whatever the F for a raise). I know some of you who brag about how much you guys make are anxiously waiting for your next paycheck.

Your example is about two once in a generation scientists that had IQs much higher than the normal population. I bet if you look at the number if scientists/physicists who attended college compared to those that didn't it's upwards of 99% did attend college. You can find outliers in every population but the fact remains that if you want to get into a field like that you'll probably need to go to college.

Nobody is claiming to be smarter by going to college, at least I'm not, but many careers require a college education just I become certified. CPAs, lawyers, M.D.'s, Teachers, etc all have a basic education requirement in order to sit for licensure. Not only that but most states have laws preventing you from working jn those fields unless you are licensed so teaching it to yourself doesn't sanitary the education requirements.

[BayMoWe335]

Originally Posted by MrPrena

Any sh1t can be self taught.

Look at Michael Faraday (Physicist). This guy is self taught, He didn't even attend univ/college, and became one of the most important physicist of all time. Even Albert Einstein posted his picture on his study hall. I bet not a lot of electrical engineers actually understand most of his work.

However, anyone here who is bragging about how much more they make or how smarter they are relative to whatever higher edu is just silly.
If you were that freaking smart, you would NOT be working in order to receive a damn paycheck (or write your own paycheck, or ask a damn BOD/General Partners/Chairman or whatever the F for a raise). I know some of you who brag about how much you guys make are anxiously waiting for your next paycheck.

Again, outliers are not the norm.

[Whostheboss]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

I studied economics and statistics and my degree has helped me out tremendously. What I studied is exactly what I do out of college and yes college is really needed to do what I do for a living.

It's not really worth it to study what I call hobbies instead of a skill that's in demand. Accounting is another good field, it's lucrative if you want to put in the time to get your CPA and no matter how the economy is doing...people always need accountants. It's just that accounting is boring and if you become an auditor, just know that I secretly hate you and whenever I see you in my office to do your annual audit, I want nothing more than to pour hot coffee all over you.

lol

[Whostheboss]

Originally Posted by MrPrena

Any sh1t can be self taught.

Look at Michael Faraday (Physicist). This guy is self taught, He didn't even attend univ/college, and became one of the most important physicist of all time. Even Albert Einstein posted his picture on his study hall. I bet not a lot of electrical engineers actually understand most of his work.

However, anyone here who is bragging about how much more they make or how smarter they are relative to whatever higher edu is just silly.
If you were that freaking smart, you would NOT be working in order to receive a damn paycheck (or write your own paycheck, or ask a damn BOD/General Partners/Chairman or whatever the F for a raise). I know some of you who brag about how much you guys make are anxiously waiting for your next paycheck.

real shyt!

[ASAP]

All I know is that legal services will soon be next to free lol... All these wanna be lawyers in law school with the far too many that are already out there and can't find a job will next to guarantee this.

SW engineering is next... when an industry is hot... it can't be hot forever.

[John 070]

Originally Posted by ASAP

All I know is that legal services will soon be next to free lol... All these wanna be lawyers in law school with the far too many that are already out there and can't find a job will next to guarantee this.

SW engineering is next... when an industry is hot... it can't be hot forever.

Good point. There have been times when making money was like shooting fish in a barrel. The problem is one can NEVER buy at the low, and sell at the high. Anybody who consistently says they do, is a liar. This forum has been full of them, with their incredible stock, options, real estate transactions.

Is that sustainable over a lifetime of 90-100 years? Probably not--imagine, just imagine, how much hard-earned cash some have lost in real estate. If you live in the house, it's not a gamble. If you buy 2nd, 3rd, 4th homes, that's gambling.

Anyway, my point is at some point you actually need to know something, you can't just rely on a web browser and the latest scam as your means of income.

Can you teach yourself to be a MD, engineer, etc., over the web? Maybe, but doubtful.

It's a competitive world, and it's getting more competitive. Again, I point out that the elite schools are cheap, it's the mediocre and no good schools that are expensive. So if you have to pay 60k for college per year, that's your own doing. There are better schools that cost less, but harder to get into.

[Hisam135i]

In my opinion an undergraduate degree nowadays is only in place to teach individuals to increase their critical thinking abilities while learning the basic skills needed for a few industries. You learn the real skills you need for an industry at graduate level coursework or by going out and working.

Also, many industries now are so competitive that a bachelors degree requirement is just there to hopefully reduce the amount of applicants. Even now though the same jobs that only required a bachelors degree a few years ago now require a masters or phd degree. I'm currently a phd student in financial economics as the sector of finance I'm looking to go into has very high educational requirements.

[Uber V8]

Originally Posted by Hisam135i

Also, many industries now are so competitive that a bachelors degree requirement is just there to hopefully reduce the amount of applicants..

What's really interesting, is those who are over qualified. That has got to be the worst feeling that you achieved too much and did too well in the educational realm that an employer will not consider you for a job.

As a member on a hiring committee, I've witnessed this a few times.

[MrPrena]

Yes, Faraday example is one of the rare. I just used that specific physicst to prove a point that anything can be self taught. (however it MAY take most of individual 10x longer, therefore it is just better to go to school).

Oh yeah, no doubt that any scientists with "-ist" most likely need a PhD with tons of research. That is why they made a term "engineer"
(I am kidding)

Originally Posted by Seminole

Your example is about two once in a generation scientists that had IQs much higher than the normal population. I bet if you look at the number if scientists/physicists who attended college compared to those that didn't it's upwards of 99% did attend college. You can find outliers in every population but the fact remains that if you want to get into a field like that you'll probably need to go to college.

Nobody is claiming to be smarter by going to college, at least I'm not, but many careers require a college education just I become certified. CPAs, lawyers, M.D.'s, Teachers, etc all have a basic education requirement in order to sit for licensure. Not only that but most states have laws preventing you from working jn those fields unless you are licensed so teaching it to yourself doesn't sanitary the education requirements.

[talisman311]

Originally Posted by nick380

Nowadays I feel a degree isn't worth as much as experience, and certifications in the field. For example if you are certified in networking, that might as well be as good as having a bachelors in networking. The CCNA from Cisco is a very well known certification and is accepted by all if not almost all networking companies... and not at all easy to obtain. Degrees usually just involve getting pay limits in a position without them. Other than that I feel knowing a person in that field and having the experience will leave you a lot better off then someone who just graduated and has almost no experience in that field, and knows no one. Take note you have to go through a lot of courses which end up just being "Fillers" for your degree and you'll most likely never use depending on what you want to specialize in that given field of study.

I currently am attending community college having graduated high school in 2012, and so far I feel as though my time has been wasted seeing as how for the first 2 years you are taking mainly "General' Ed courses which involves mostly classes you'll not only never use, but don't even want to take really. I'm currently working on both my CCNA, Comptia A+, and Server + Certs as I am going for a position in Networking/Database/IT Admin. I currently work for a networking resale company and spend most of my time testing several equipments including servers,firewalls, routers, switches, ap's, etc.

So as you can see the experience is being gained, which in the future will look really good on a Resume when they see you have already been working with said equipment for several years, rather than having a bachelors and not knowing the experience kind of knowledge you gain through time such as troubleshooting. My situation may be unique, but the concept is the same in many other subjects.

I'm used to be a network ops guy and have my CCNA. My advice, pursue security if that interests you. More $ and opportunities and that's not changing any time soon. (probably biased as I jumped to security)

You sound young... If I were you and if you aren't super introverted, I'd get into a 4-year degree program at a good college. Take some school loans out if you need to, get good grades to get a good internship and you're almost guaranteed a good paying position at a company with more opportunity/higher glass-ceiling with a degree.

With your current path, it sounds like you'll be a contractor or start low on the ladder and have to work your way up. Nothing wrong with that, but the people I know who started in that path are working to pursue a B.S. degree now because their options for moving up are much more limited... It's also tougher for them because working part-time isn't an option for the role they're in, so they have to do more balancing on the work/life part.

I say go for a 4-year degree not just for the degree part, but everything else that comes with it. I had some of the best times of my life and met some of my best friends through college. Get involved with groups, make friends, travel, develop experiences. Some of my friends are people who I deem smart and motivated and we've pushed each other to better ourselves in all aspects of our lives on a consistent basis.

Just remember to keep the grades up and get internships in IT as it's fundamental to getting a good role once you graduate.

Sorry for the ramble and crap grammar, just want to spend a little time encouraging the 4 year degree program.

[nick380]

Originally Posted by talisman311

I'm used to be a network ops guy and have my CCNA. My advice, pursue security if that interests you. More $ and opportunities and that's not changing any time soon. (probably biased as I jumped to security)

You sound young... If I were you and if you aren't super introverted, I'd get into a 4-year degree program at a good college. Take some school loans out if you need to, get good grades to get a good internship and you're almost guaranteed a good paying position at a company with more opportunity/higher glass-ceiling with a degree.

With your current path, it sounds like you'll be a contractor or start low on the ladder and have to work your way up. Nothing wrong with that, but the people I know who started in that path are working to pursue a B.S. degree now because their options for moving up are much more limited... It's also tougher for them because working part-time isn't an option for the role they're in, so they have to do more balancing on the work/life part.

I say go for a 4-year degree not just for the degree part, but everything else that comes with it. I had some of the best times of my life and met some of my best friends through college. Get involved with groups, make friends, travel, develop experiences. Some of my friends are people who I deem smart and motivated and we've pushed each other to better ourselves in all aspects of our lives on a consistent basis.

Just remember to keep the grades up and get internships in IT as it's fundamental to getting a good role once you graduate.

Sorry for the ramble and crap grammar, just want to spend a little time encouraging the 4 year degree program.

Thanks for the advice, and nice I was considering security it seemed pretty easy to get into. I considered the college thing and going for the 4 year degree, but I just cannot stand school in any sense. I dreaded everyday of high school and couldn't wait to be rid of learning things I wasn't interested in. I feel as though the whole "college experience" is nice and all but I cannot see having to follow what basically the norm is and attend the 4 year, drown myself in debt, and afterwards have nothing to show but a piece of paper. Feels really silly and a waste of time to me, I would rather pursue my interests head on and just base my learning around that ie: CCNA, CCNP, CompTia A+, etc. I do like meeting new people and experiencing "college" life, but even if I wanted to attend full time I could not. I have my car to pay which is my DD and I have bills I help my family out with per month to pay on top of that. My job requires me to be there Monday to Friday 6am-6pm after commute. I may pursue the degree ever so slowly but I don't know about full time school. There's so much stereotyping between people who go to college and people who don't that when I think of college I just think " I don't want to be like everyone, I want to succeed through my own means"

Sorry for the huge paragraph on iPhone.

[P1]

Definitely. There is never anything wrong with getting an education.

[Uber V8]

Originally Posted by P1et

Definitely. There is never anything wrong with getting an education.

Uh, I beg to differ.

There can be multiple things wrong and multiple things right. One has to choose wisely.

[Litos]

Originally Posted by FwdFtl

Uh, I beg to differ.

There can be multiple things wrong and multiple things right. One has to choose wisely.

agreed.....

[talisman311]

Originally Posted by nick380

Thanks for the advice, and nice I was considering security it seemed pretty easy to get into. I considered the college thing and going for the 4 year degree, but I just cannot stand school in any sense. I dreaded everyday of high school and couldn't wait to be rid of learning things I wasn't interested in. I feel as though the whole "college experience" is nice and all but I cannot see having to follow what basically the norm is and attend the 4 year, drown myself in debt, and afterwards have nothing to show but a piece of paper. Feels really silly and a waste of time to me, I would rather pursue my interests head on and just base my learning around that ie: CCNA, CCNP, CompTia A+, etc. I do like meeting new people and experiencing "college" life, but even if I wanted to attend full time I could not. I have my car to pay which is my DD and I have bills I help my family out with per month to pay on top of that. My job requires me to be there Monday to Friday 6am-6pm after commute. I may pursue the degree ever so slowly but I don't know about full time school. There's so much stereotyping between people who go to college and people who don't that when I think of college I just think " I don't want to be like everyone, I want to succeed through my own means"

Sorry for the huge paragraph on iPhone.

Well, good luck with whichever you choose. I get the constraints you're under.. I worked and paid my way through college making ~$13/hour either part time or full time during a few periods (although I wish I would've just taken loans knowing what I'd make out of school). The good internships pay close to $20/hour in IT now and a lot of companies will allow you to work part time while you're in school. Starting salary for a fresh IT grad 7 years ago in a midsize city was in the low $50k at a midcap company (and depending on how aggressive you are, you can easily get to 80k or even 100k+ after 5 years if you work smart towards it). There should be some way to get the 4 year degree and work within your current needs.


Edit: sounds like you're very motivated with network engineering. Try to get your foot in the door with a company that's a Cisco shop now and get experience working on the network ops roles (even if that means working after hours, unpaid). Study to eventually get your CCNP to CCIE R&S and make sure you can deliver to meet/improve business needs. There's def demand for that, but you'll need to prove you know your $hit. I've spoken to CCNP R&S that can't even upgrade a 6500 catalyst switch.. don't be that guy.

[talisman311]

Originally Posted by P1et

Definitely. There is never anything wrong with getting an education.

I have to disagree profoundly to this. I have friends with MFA, philosophy, art, history, poli sci degrees, with good grades, and they either can't get jobs or get paid peanuts.

[NemesisX]

Originally Posted by talisman311

I have to disagree profoundly to this. I have friends with MFA, philosophy, art, history, poli sci degrees, with good grades, and they either can't get jobs or get paid peanuts.

Every major you mentioned is worthless.

[P1]

Originally Posted by FwdFtl

Uh, I beg to differ.

There can be multiple things wrong and multiple things right. One has to choose wisely.

Originally Posted by Litos

agreed.....

Originally Posted by talisman311

I have to disagree profoundly to this. I have friends with MFA, philosophy, art, history, poli sci degrees, with good grades, and they either can't get jobs or get paid peanuts.

I'm absolutely shocked at these responses. Are the three of you really implying there is something wrong with being educated or getting an education?

Being educated isn't only about learning the skills that will eventually apply to your career. It builds character, gives us knowledge, enables us to discover things we don't know, gives us a different perspective on the world around us. It's helps us create a better society for us and the ones around us.