[son_of_siggy]

Originally Posted by b0bab0i

Its a Base corvette. If it was a Z06/Z07(not sure what they are calling it) maybe.

Not sure what your comments means or how it relates to my post. Can you clarify?

[CirrusSR22]

^ I was wondering the exact same thing. I don't get it.

[wisesoul]

Get the black series. Looks special, sounds amazing, and easily capable on the track with the right tires. Sure the auto is years behind the curve, but there are software flashes to fix that. Maintenance is the only question mark

[See5]

Just go drive them.

Having driven the C4, C5, C6, and C7, I'll tell you that the C7 drives nothing like the others. I love the older generations but the new one is absolutely amazing.

[b0bab0i]

Originally Posted by son_of_siggy

Not sure what your comments means or how it relates to my post. Can you clarify?

Sorry I wasn't clear. The C7 Stingray is a base corvette and personally I wouldn't take a C7 over the CLK63BS unless it was the Z06/Z07.

[son_of_siggy]

Originally Posted by b0bab0i

Sorry I wasn't clear. The C7 Stingray is a base corvette and personally I wouldn't take a C7 over the CLK63BS unless it was the Z06/Z07.

Why not? The base C7 already outperforms the CLK black in every category, so what would the Z06/Z07 provide that the C7 doesn't, other than increasing the gap between the Vette and CLK in performance? Only reasons I can see to take the CLK over the Vette is aesthetics (if you favor the Merc looks over the Vette), status, or if you need the back seats for people. Otherwise the Vette will accelerate, handle, brake, etc better than the AMG AND get 11mpg MORE on the highway than it.

It may be worth more in a few years, but that's only because it cost nearly 80k more to get into over a base Stingray.

[CirrusSR22]

Originally Posted by son_of_siggy

Why not? The base C7 already outperforms the CLK black in every category, so what would the Z06/Z07 provide that the C7 doesn't, other than increasing the gap between the Vette and CLK in performance? Only reasons I can see to take the CLK over the Vette is aesthetics (if you favor the Merc looks over the Vette), status, or if you need the back seats for people. Otherwise the Vette will accelerate, handle, brake, etc better than the AMG AND get 11mpg MORE on the highway than it.

It may be worth more in a few years, but that's only because it cost nearly 80k more to get into over a base Stingray.

The CLK63BS doesn't have a back seat, so you can scratch that.

I'd take the C7 anyday. The AMG will obviously be more rare, but the C7 is clearly the superior sports car.

[b0bab0i]

Originally Posted by son_of_siggy

Why not? The base C7 already outperforms the CLK black in every category, so what would the Z06/Z07 provide that the C7 doesn't, other than increasing the gap between the Vette and CLK in performance? Only reasons I can see to take the CLK over the Vette is aesthetics (if you favor the Merc looks over the Vette), status, or if you need the back seats for people. Otherwise the Vette will accelerate, handle, brake, etc better than the AMG AND get 11mpg MORE on the highway than it.

It may be worth more in a few years, but that's only because it cost nearly 80k more to get into over a base Stingray.

I would choose clk BS over c7 because of Rarity, resale and aggressive exterior aesthetics. Both cars are already pretty fast and would be fun to drive.

Z06 usually provides all three. More rare than base vettes, better resale and more aggressive with widebody. And performance boosts over the base is a bonus.

[rjd598]

Like others have said it really depends on what you want and what you will be using it for. The vette would be my choice if it were a daily driver or I cared about warranty. If I just wanted a cool weekend car the Benz would fit the bill even though the vette is still a good option. Can't really go wrong with either IMO

[MediaArtist]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

I
The C63 sedan is a hefty car, sure, but it delivers 100% of the M3's handling prowess on the street and 90% of it on the track (except with better steering feel in both environments).

Nope. It's simply not a nimble car, definitely not "super car" nimble. All of the things you are mentioning are straight line time slips (an aspect which I said AMGs excel at already) okay, so what? What does straight line speed have to do with driving feel and being nimble? A C63 AMG would blow the doors off a Lotus Exige, or FRS 0-60mph. Driving feel has nothing to do with straight line speed.

I have not driven the C63 BS, but the normal C63 AMG is porky and feels porky because… it is (just like the E90/E92 M3 you mentioned btw). Both cars aren't sloppy on a track, but you know you're driving a heavy car. Unless the BS has done some "engineering magic tricks", I don't imagine that they feel that much different. Completely different feel from a C6 (and a C7 I imagine). Totally different cars in nearly every driving feel aspect.

But don't take my word for it, maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, I've only spent 20 hot laps within a C63 AMG (non-BS) at the former El Toro base in Irvine pushing the car as much as I could within my ability. But maybe every reviewer of the car and platform doesn't know what they are talking about according to you since they describe the car feeling "nose heavy" which is something you would expect from a 4,000lbs car, and is something I felt about the car as well:

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...257411007DFEED
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...g-coupe-page-2
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/v...8-3965748.html

I've never felt or heard this being applied to the C6 (or C7), Ferrari 430, 458, Gallardo, GT3, etc. True super cars.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

Nope. It's simply not a nimble car, definitely not "super car" nimble. All of the things you are mentioning are straight line time slips (an aspect which I said AMGs excel at already) okay, so what? What does straight line speed have to do with driving feel and being nimble? A C63 AMG would blow the doors off a Lotus Exige, or FRS 0-60mph. Driving feel has nothing to do with straight line speed.

I have not driven the C63 BS, but the normal C63 AMG is porky and feels porky because… it is (just like the E90/E92 M3 you mentioned btw). Both cars aren't sloppy on a track, but you know you're driving a heavy car. Unless the BS has done some "engineering magic tricks", I don't imagine that they feel that much different. Completely different feel from a C6 (and a C7 I imagine). Totally different cars in nearly every driving feel aspect.

But don't take my word for it, maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, I've only spent 20 hot laps within a C63 AMG (non-BS) at the former El Toro base in Irvine pushing the car as much as I could within my ability. But maybe every reviewer of the car and platform doesn't know what they are talking about according to you since they describe the car feeling "nose heavy" which is something you would expect from a 4,000lbs car, and is something I felt about the car as well:

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...257411007DFEED
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...g-coupe-page-2
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/v...8-3965748.html

I've never felt or heard this being applied to the C6 (or C7), Ferrari 430, 458, Gallardo, GT3, etc. True super cars.

In the Car and Driver review, the M3 won by a SINGLE point . . .

There were massive upgrades to the suspension on the C63 in 2012 (this was the birth of the LCI model).

Which car did you lap in? If it was a pre-2012 car, I can see where you are coming from. Otherwise, no.

And the Black Series IS super car nimble.

Read the specs. The tires alone on the Black Series are a massive upgrade.

Black Series: http://www.roadandtrack.com/2012-mer...g-black-series

Nordschleife Lap Records:

2012+ C63 (Standard): 8:01.00

M3: 8:05.00

Source: http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife.html

Having lapped BOTH cars, I firmly stand behind my initial statement that a 2012+ C63 delivers 100% of the M3's handling capabilities on the street but only 90% (which is still strong) on the track, where the M3, being the lighter, more surgical instrument, does gain a bit of an advantage on tighter, more technical tracks.

On faster trackers with more sweepers (e.g., the 'ring), the C63 is lethal.

[b0bab0i]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

In the Car and Driver review, the M3 won by a SINGLE point . . .

There were massive upgrades to the suspension on the C63 in 2012 (this was the birth of the LCI model).

Which car did you lap in? If it was a pre-2012 car, I can see where you are coming from. Otherwise, no.

And the Black Series IS super car nimble.

Read the specs. The tires alone on the Black Series are a massive upgrade.

Black Series: http://www.roadandtrack.com/2012-mer...g-black-series

Nordschleife Lap Records:

2012+ C63 (Standard): 8:01.00

M3: 8:05.00

Source: http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife.html

Having lapped BOTH cars, I firmly stand behind my initial statement that a 2012+ C63 delivers 100% of the M3's handling capabilities on the street but only 90% (which is still strong) on the track, where the M3, being the lighter, more surgical instrument, does gain a bit of an advantage on tighter, more technical tracks.

On faster trackers with more sweepers (e.g., the 'ring), the C63 is lethal.

I think MediaArtist is saying both E9x M3 & C63 are heavy cars and you can feel the weight. What he's saying is true.

[MediaArtist]

Originally Posted by b0bab0i

I think MediaArtist is saying both E9x M3 & C63 are heavy cars and you can feel the weight. What he's saying is true.

Thank you. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills sometimes on this forum. The E9x M3 and C63 AMG have been out for 5 years, these are not opinions formed from lack of knowledge and experience.

They do not feel or drive in anyway like any of the modern super cars on the market built within the past 5 years, and they shouldn't, they're not meant to compete with those cars. The C63 AMG and E9x M3 are great cars for what they are, and the price range they fall into, but none of the modern AMGs feel like a GT3, a F458, or even a Z06. They were never marketed to compete with that group of super cars, and they simply don't feel as light or nimble on the track.

[F32]

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

Thank you. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills sometimes on this forum.

LOL. It's the reason I refuse to comment here.

Interesting thread, though. I'm big a Corvette and AMG fan as they get. Both are great cars.

[b0bab0i]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

I'm trying to make a point about the C63 Black Series and CLK63 BS.

I'm trying to say that the Black Series variants are serious pieces of kit. You can't compare them to the "standard" AMG vehicles.

That point keeps getting lost over and over again.

For daily driving, you would want a car with luxury amenities and fast engine and that's where the extra weight comes into play. My current vehicle is a C63 sedan also. To me it is the perfect DD, but if I wanted to drive on a track I would choose a lighter car. The weight of the C63 is considerably apparent compared to previous cars I've owned(Z4 & RX7) and those were more enjoyable in spirited driving. I guess it depends on the person though.

[MediaArtist]

Originally Posted by b0bab0i

For daily driving, you would want a car with luxury amenities and fast engine and that's where the extra weight comes into play. My current vehicle is a C63 sedan also. To me it is the perfect DD, but if I wanted to drive on a track I would choose a lighter car. The weight of the C63 is considerably apparent compared to previous cars I've owned(Z4 & RX7) and those were more enjoyable in spirited driving. I guess it depends on the person though.

Found some more info to back up what you said here.

The CLK63 BS is listed at a hair under 3,900lbs unloaded on the Mercedes company website (meaning no fuel, cargo, or driver). That's 200lbs heavier than a Chevy Camaro.

I don't care what suspension, tires, etc that CLK63 BS is kitted with, it will never feel super car nimble unless Mercedes has invented a Star Trek inertia dampener that you can buy as an option.

[IMG]

Benz !

[spiike32]

I'm sure there are a plethora of mods for the c63 AMG, but with the stingray all you need is a cam, long tube headers, some nitrous ... and you have a pretty sweet 9 sec car. 10.6 w/o the nitrous which is also quick.

In 1 years time the stingray will be common and you should be seeing discounts. There is already $2500 off msrp for the non z51 going on at dealers and it's only 2 months into the release. Just give it some time and the z51 will be discounted 2500-5000. My screen name on corvetteforum is Monaco335 if you want to chat corvettes there (I'm picking one up next year).

edit for clk63 v c63

[F32]

Why do people still think CLK63=C63?

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

Found some more info to back up what you said here.

The CLK63 BS is listed at a hair under 3,900lbs unloaded on the Mercedes company website (meaning no fuel, cargo, or driver). That's 200lbs heavier than a Chevy Camaro.

I don't care what suspension, tires, etc that CLK63 BS is kitted with, it will never feel super car nimble unless Mercedes has invented a Star Trek inertia dampener that you can buy as an option.

Yeah I understand your point. I always have.

All I'm saying is that weight isn't the only attribute that determines a car's proficiency around the track.

Just look up some lap times man. You'll see where the Black Series variants stack up against cars like the 911 GT3, etc.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by F32

Why do people still think CLK63=C63?

I don't know. It's frustrating. It (i.e., the CLK63 BS) does share a few things in common with the C63 BS, being the latter's predecessor.

[MediaArtist]

Originally Posted by spiike32

So whoever said it is good for the track needs to drive a cayman S (987 or 991 body style) and I dare you to come back and say the c63 is good at the track.

Heck, not even the S, just a normal stock Cayman, and do a few laps. Then get into a CLK63 BS and do the same.

If you can't feel the difference between a car that weighs 2 tons versus a car that a hair under 3,000lbs, then just get the Black Series.