11-04-2013, 04:19 PM | #45 | |
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11-04-2013, 04:32 PM | #46 | |
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Implied in my posts was that he'd be more likely to find a good amount of support if he were a respectful person, rather than acting the way he does in other areas of his life. It's a matter of opinion (my opinion is that he should not be followed) that has no bearing on if he was correct or not in this video. I guess I could have clarified my opinion on the overall issue. How can you preach about the defending the constitution, while simultaneously wanting to exterminate a group of people, thereby denying their God given right to life? Seems like he is fine with things that actually go AGAINST human rights, as long as it supports his religious agenda... To me, this would shake ANY FORM of support I'd be willing to give this guy. Taking his video at face value, you don't get the whole picture of the man. The reason I pointed out the other side of him is so people can make their own choice to support him if they want to, based on all the information available. Although if you want to support him on this issue alone, that is fine. I certainly agree with him on this. I won't support him as a whole though. Agreeing with his views on this issue is one thing, supporting him as an advocate for our rights is entirely different. I wonder what his agenda for fighting this so hard is, when he's willing to violate other inalienable rights in support of his religious agenda...
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11-04-2013, 04:49 PM | #47 | ||
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11-04-2013, 05:07 PM | #48 |
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Wow, where do I even begin. There is so much misinformation here.
Here is a good read… https://www.aclu.org/technology-and-...tion-free-zone Anyway, the US Border Patrol has the right to stop any vehicle they want to accomplish their objectives. It is considered an "Administrative" stop and the courts have allowed this. Plain and simple. This guy was clearly in violation of a simple AND ROUTINE check, regardless. The US Border Patrol along with the California Highway Patrol sets these checkpoints up to check the 18 wheelers (which we can credit the Border Patrol and CBP for catching illegal immigrants trying to come into this country illegally, seize contraband , etc.) CHP is there to in enforce the law as we all know the Border Patrol in the state of California are not recognized as fully sworn police officers. Not so in Arizona, and Texas. At the actual Borders they do hold jurisdiction over the CHP, not so much inland and at the checkpoint 60 miles up the highway. They also check the big rigs. The US has a 100 mile zone from the border inland. They can check and search vehicles legally in these zones. Anyway I think what the Border Patrol was right on and I would have done the same thing. We get tired of seeing guys/gals like this. Last edited by Endless619; 11-04-2013 at 05:25 PM.. |
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11-04-2013, 05:30 PM | #49 | |
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11-04-2013, 06:56 PM | #50 | ||
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As annoying as they are, imagine how many people get tired of being stopped at checkpoints. Right now, there is a carved out space where these interior checkpoints are allowed as they tip toe around the constitution. That is what triggers these games people play. If the government is going to figure out where they can game the system, the citizens can do the same. Now its one big game.
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11-04-2013, 07:03 PM | #51 | |
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I don't like to get stopped but most of the time I get waved through. I haven't had to show my ID in 20 years. lol Knock on wood!!!!! |
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11-04-2013, 09:59 PM | #52 |
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the 100 mile rule pretty much makes all of FL a legal stop zone. Of course that is if the coast line is considered the boarder.
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11-05-2013, 10:00 AM | #53 | |
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If 100mile is border check zone, does that mean I could be stopped everyday on my commute? I live in Upstate/West New York, pretty close to the Canada border. |
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11-05-2013, 11:11 AM | #54 |
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Yes comrade, you could be stopped...
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11-05-2013, 10:13 PM | #55 |
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11-05-2013, 10:28 PM | #56 |
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Surprised he referred to his own actions as "suspicion-less." Everything about his behavior was highly suspicious, especially when he's messing around in his car pointing a big black camera at law enforcement.
I would've had more respect for his libertarian "cause" had he just sat in the driver seat and done nothing. |
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11-06-2013, 01:33 AM | #57 | |
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Border Patrol and Immigration and Customs Enforcement have the right to conduct administrative checks to verify citizenship. As long as each agent has articulable facts to support such an inquiry. Agents spend enough time at the academy on 4th amendment to be familiar enough to know when they are crossing the line. Unfortunately, most people don’t realize the authority DHS agents have granted by the INA and USC. Truth be told if they were allowed to exercise the authority granted by federal law most people would be shocked. Just my two cents… |
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11-06-2013, 07:35 AM | #58 | |
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It's funny... A couple people have said that they are totally legal in what they are doing.
Then why do most, if not all people who refuse to answer their questions get waved through after about 15 minutes of wasted time? If what they are doing is 100% legal and appropriate, then wouldn't refusing to comply be 100% ILLEGAL? Why can they not detain these people who refuse to answer? Although, there is a huge difference between sitting there like a moron with a camera like in the original video, and simply saying, "I'm sorry, but I'm not going to answer that question. Can I please go on my way?" I think that it's partially in how you present... Maybe you all should read up on the right to freedom of movement within the country: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom...ted_States_law Quote:
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11-06-2013, 10:33 PM | #59 |
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The Supreme Court has also ruled that these checkpoints are legal. When someone refuses to answer and they are allowed to leave it is beacuse the agent has determined there is not enough reasonable suspicion to detain the individual.
A human smuggler, drug runner for a cartel, undocumented alien, aggravated felon can all refuse to answer. That doesn't mean they can just be on thier way. There's a difference between the legality of setting up a checkpoint and the legality of detaining a person. Moreover, people complain about DHS, but as soon as an illegal immigrant gets drunk and runs over a us citizen people ask why they were even in the country. You can't have it both ways. |
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11-08-2013, 09:09 AM | #60 | ||
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11-08-2013, 11:07 AM | #61 |
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I would respectfully disagree with some folks as I think they had reasonable cause to conduct a search. Any @$$hat that does what he does is certainly provocative and can claim it is within his right but the 4th amendment warrants against unreasonable searches. In this case, I do not believe CBP was in the wrong. Realize their job and what they come across in their line of work. For him to just pull over and keep intentionally and repeatedly reach back, down, etc... in his car, take pictures of the agents and such just to provoke a reaction when they are wondering what he is reaching for is asinine. Looking at it from their shoes, why is he taking their pictures and taping them? To learn their movements, tactics, and procedures? To maybe ID the agents? It isn't like they disallowed him to do what he was doing for quite a while.
I-8 runs a long ways and goes along the Mexican border in SE CA and Western AZ. I recently drove it many time going between SD and Yuma and have been through the checkpoints numerous time this year and in the past without issue (even if I have to stop). 99% of the populous just moves through, whether they have to answer a couple quick questions or not. What's the big deal? Because they're just sheep obeying? It is along a border that we get large numbers of illegal immigrants from and, I don't know, maybe there is an issue with violent gangs and cartels coming up through that border. All I've ever been asked is where I was driving to and if I was a citizen. They judge response time and behavior and I'm sure try to look through into the back seat. I just roll down both drivers side windows answer their 2-3 questions and go on my way. It is not like they have these far inland and between states. Of course, there are those that would think these checkpoints are just the beginning...
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11-08-2013, 11:52 AM | #62 |
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i don't think they are the beginning so to speak. They aren't going to spur more check points.
What i think most who are against this are afraid of is that these check points will serve as a precedent which will allow any government entity to start random check points. And while i, like you would comply and move on, i still am aware of the possibility that the American public being blindly compliant with these types of things often times can play into the old adage of give them an inch and they will take a mile. Law makers aren't stupid when it comes to manipulating the system. They'll introduce a law that chips away at an issue, then another, then another. Before you know it they can introduce entirely new legislation that flies through because it's based on much smaller, incremental legislation that has been approved over the years.
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11-08-2013, 12:25 PM | #63 |
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What administration were they taking care of if the person they stopped wasn't crossing a border? Even a cop needs probable cause to pull someone over (yes- I'm also against DUI checkpoints). Treating everyone as a suspect until they can show they're innocent is as un American as it gets. How does driving down the road make one a suspect of criminal activity? Of course some kangaroo court approved it. They basically admitted it was unconstitutional but said it was worth it- that doesn't make it right. Our governments job is first and foremost to protect our freedoms as outlined in the constitution.
. 2/3 of our population lives within 100 miles of the border. Do you see the problem of creating a special security force that can do things that would otherwise be unconstitutional? We can't rationalize away our protected liberties If exercising your 4th and 5th amendment rights, as this guy was doing, is sufficient probable cause to violate them, then they aren't worth the parchment they're written on. This is unreasonable because driving down the road is insufficient reason to suspect someone of a crime unless over half the people doing so are illegal immigrants or drug smugglers |
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11-08-2013, 01:25 PM | #64 |
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If they ask you if you're a citizen and you exercise your 5th amendment, I'm not sure how they can go anywhere from there without violating your 4th amendment.
In the pastor's case, they attempted to bring a drug dog around and get him to bark but then refused to do it again once the state trooper had arrived. At the end of the day, he was formally charged with two misdemeanors, “obstructing the highway” and “resisting an order directing, regulating, or controlling a motor vehicle”. I'm assuming both are basically his refusal to go to secondary. He was acquitted of both.
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