[esquire]

Originally Posted by Celsius

here ya go!

Source: 7Tune

The R390 sported a 3.5 liter V8 known as the VRH35L, which was essentially recreated as a V6 production engine in the form of the upcoming GT-R's VR38VETT. Even though it loses two cylinders, it gains 300cc of displacement, for a total of 3.8 liters. Oh yeah, there's a couple of turbochargers thrown in for good measure, too. Despite the amount of air it can pump, the VR38 is a compact mill with lots of trick touches. Among the most interesting features, and probably the ones that tuners will hate the most, are the integrated turbine housings in the exhaust manifolds. Having the impellers right in the manifold keeps weight down and improves response, while also making the overall package more compact and thus easier to nestle down into the frame. Each cylinder bank has its own independent intake manifold, which is the main thing you see when lifting the hood. The cylinders fed by that plumbing are occupied by lightened pistons, which are in turn flung around by svelte connecting rods and crankshaft, too. Cosworth had a hand in engineering the engine, which has an alloy block with linerless bores, plenty of magnesium alloy pieces, an oiling system capable of coping with high g's, and an eagerness to rev in a way 3800ccs usually aren't.

The GT-R will be impressive when it debuts in just a couple of months, and from the numbers, it looks like it'll give a Porsche 911 Turbo quite a run for its (big pile of) money. The horsepower figure for both cars is 480ps, and while the GT-R gives up some torque to the Porsche, the GT-R rips off equally quick dashes to 100 km/h (3.9 seconds) and has been designed with vehicular balance as an overarching theme. While the chassis of the GT-R can handle more power, Nissan's considerable Group C racing experience showed that cars with better balance are faster than horsepower champs. With a front engine/AWD layout, it'll be less a widowmaker than the 911, which can get wiggly at times. How's this sound – performance equal to (and potentially better) than the 911 Turbo for half the price (7.9 million Yen versus 18.2 million Yen)? Yeah, we thought so. Besides, the GT-R isn't stuck in some kind of iconoclastic styling purgatory the way the 911 is.

very interesting. i'm curious how impactful the benefits of the embedded turbos will be. certainly they've made it more difficult to install aftermarket turbos. WIth an aftermarket tuner segment as large as nissan has, the benefits of the embedded turbo would have to outweigh alienating their tuning segment to a large degree. though its possible, that the price, and rarity of this car might make my previous point a non-factor.

also... 480ps horsepower?? what does the denotation ps mean? if 480ps horsepower is the same as our standard horsepower measurements, i suspect that a mid 7's time at the ring is improbable. The engine is admittedly less torquey than its 911 counterpart, which means to compensate it would need a high revving engine. Losing 2 cylinders and increasing the displacement would mean either a larger bore, or longer stroke, which translates to less rev capability. Either way, i don't know that the 6 cylinder paradigm on a car of this weight could be the high revving screamer it would need to be to compete with a 911 turbo on the ring.

thoughts anyone?

- esquire

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by esquire

Also... 480ps horsepower?? what does the denotation ps mean? if 480ps horsepower is the same as our standard horsepower measurements, i suspect that a mid 7's time at the ring is improbable.
- esquire

PS designates metric horsepower, which can be converted:

PS = 75 kp·m/s = 0.73549875 kW = 0.9863201652997627 hp (SAE)
PS
That's how the M3's 420 German horsepower rating becomes 414 hp in the US. So 480 would convert to 473 SAE.

[MI6]

Turbos are definitely the way to go.

Do I even need to mention the great 335i sedan/coupe twins?

True, turbos have their probs, but obviously BMW figures they are the future- the new 7er and 5er will both have TT's putting out 400HP plus......

Is their a version of the GT-R that does these times? Yes.

Is it in a vehicle that will go on sale soon?

Probably not................not now anyways.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by Los Angeles

I think too many people are thinking negative in Nissan's favor. Hey, if they say they may be able to pull these numbers, how bout we wait until the final verdict before we rip the GT-R apart.

"Well the GT-R is this".... "well it's not able to do that".
"The GT-R has to weight this.."

The GT-R will make it's official debut at the 2007 Tokyo Motor Show October 26th-Nov 11th.

Ah well, there will always be the pessimists and speculative behavior, so flame away.

It sure will be funny if Nissan does everything they're saying they will do with the final production model GT-R.

I'm not taking sides, just speculating like the rest.

I disagree. You do not have to wait until a product is launched and fully tested to debate it's specs and the claims of its specs. That is what science is for - the laws of physics and principles of engineering (just some basic logic as well...). When we knew the new M3 would have just north of 400 hp and be about 3400-3600 pounds some FOOLS went around saying "yeah it will be faster than a Vette". That was simply ludicrous based on simple physics, scaling, etc.

All a few of us have been saying here in this thread is that the current lap times, and rumored (albeit likely very close) hp and weight figures ABSOLUTELY do not add up. It is as simple as that. Something has to give.

Having a world view like this, based on science often leads folks to call you a pessimist. I take a different spin on it. I am an enlightened realist!

Last but not least. I do hope this car is <3300lb >500hp, faster than a Carerra GT at the ring and <$70k but don't hold your breath for that. Again it ain't going to happen, but me saying this doesn't mean I am negative towards nor biased against Nissan. Further on that point the GT-R won't be a failure when it does not meet these figures as most of them are still rumors. Of course I do hope they can get somewhere close to those figures and I will greatly admire the car, it's engineering and achievements and be glad that such competition is fantastic for the market.

By the way, just curious, did you read my and T Bones previous posts in this thread?

[JEllis]

Turbos are definitely the way to go.

Do I even need to mention the great 335i sedan/coupe twins?

True, turbos have their probs, but obviously BMW figures they are the future- the new 7er and 5er will both have TT's putting out 400HP plus......

Keep in mind that this is not the first time BMW has turned to FI on their autos....

[dechoong]

Originally Posted by Los Angeles

7:15? I heard otherwise from a very reputable source. Here's the link:

http://www.worldcarfans.com/9070924....rest-shots-yet

The article states(prgrph 2/sntnc 3),

"Nissan reps would not divulge any specific lap times, but they hinted that something under 7:35 may have been achieved."

"Regardless, it's clear that Nissan's goal of overtaking the 911 Turbo has been achieved in a big way. "

7:15 is impossible unless Nissan strips down the GT-R to around 1100-1200kg, boost its power to at least 550bhp and puts on full racing slicks.

[southlight]

Seems like someone has to say this: Wrong Forum!
Mover to the "Others Car talk," please...

Best regards, south

[lucid]

Originally Posted by Keto

*cough* wrong forum *cough* but interesting!

Originally Posted by southlight

Seems like someone has to say this: Wrong Forum!

Sorry South, that's been said before.

Does that make your post a ?

[southlight]

Originally Posted by lucid

Sorry South, that's been said before.

Does that make your post a ?

Maybe, but I had to say this because this thread hasn't been moved unlike the other GTR thread yesterday.

Best regards, south

[!Xoible]

Originally Posted by Cant Win !!!

One thing about the gtr and nissan as opposed to the deutsch cars is..Nissan does not integrate luxary into there cars at all.. Has anyone here ever been in a 350z.. the interior is HORRIBLE... one of the worst IMO.. Which im sure keeps weight and price down

i know man. it's just great that they did a cool design this time. The old R34 R33 are supposed to compete with ferraris. YEAH RIGHT!!!

[heyimsexy]

www.worldcarfans.com

www.gtrnissan.com

offical word from nissan is about $67k.


if its really that fast, at that price m3/rs4/c63 stand no chance. hell, i doubt a e92 csl would get around in 7:30.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by heyimsexy

www.worldcarfans.com

www.gtrnissan.com

offical word from nissan is about $67k.


if its really that fast, at that price m3/rs4/c63 stand no chance. hell, i doubt a e92 csl would get around in 7:30.

Good site and good addition to the topic. However...

If I had a dime for every time I had to tell someone that you can not determine the price of most things, cars included in one region by knowing it's price in another region and using a currency conversion rate. IT JUST DOES NOT WORK NOR DOES IT MAKE SENSE.

The official word here was 7.8M yen for the GT-R. Note the M3 is 9.96M yen in Japan.

[ruff]

Originally Posted by southlight

Seems like someone has to say this: Wrong Forum!
Mover to the "Others Car talk," please...

Best regards, south

Hard not to bite with this one. No surprise to see you wanting this thread dead and buried. Wouldn't want any M fans being dissuaded with potential facts that question the greatness of M. Hard to deal with a the fact that lowly Nissan with it's "poor build quality" and "cheap plastics" will more than likely obliterate anything M can produce in regards to the "all important" Ring times. Made worse by the fact that this Nissan will also be hampered by U.S. regulations and specifications. Looks like there is a new Sheriff in town. Has the M division lost it's? Oh ya, wrong thread.

[southlight]

Originally Posted by ruff

Hard not to bite with this one. No surprise to see you wanting this thread dead and buried. Wouldn't want any M fans being dissuaded with potential facts that question the greatness of M. Hard to deal with a the fact that lowly Nissan with it's "poor build quality" and "cheap plastics" will more than likely obliterate anything M can produce in regards to the "all important" Ring times. Made worse by the fact that this Nissan will also be hampered by U.S. regulations and specifications. Looks like there is a new Sheriff in town. Has the M division lost it's? Oh ya, wrong thread.

Sorry, but somebody with alomst 500 posts on his account should know where to post stuff. You're talking about the GT-R, that's no M3 as far as I know. So "General M3 Forum" is the wrong section, "other cars talk" would be appropriate. Anyway it wouldn't meet the purpose you're intending that good in the right section. So here's sympathy that you just couldn't find that.

So either this thread should be moved() or the section has to be renamed in "General M3 and GT-R forum."


Best regards, south

[TheAcAvenger]

That tims is ridiculous. It's good to see that the car could possibly living up to the title of japan's supercar. Does anyone know if there's a waitlist on them already?

[BK]

http://www.fastestlaps.com/track2.html

For reference. From the top of the list:

1.	Radical SR8		6:55	Michael Vergers
2.	Donkervoort D8 RS	7:14.89	Michael Düchting
3.	Radical SR3 Turbo	7:19	Phil Bennett
4.	Porsche 997 GT2		7:31.00	Walter R�hrl
5.	Porsche Carrera GT	7:32	Sport Auto
6.	Pagani Zonda F		7:33	Sport Auto
7.	Koenigsegg CCR		7:34	Sport Auto
8.	Lambo Murcielago LP640	7:40min	Giorgio Sanna
9.	Porsche 997 GT3		7:42	Walter Röhrl
10.	Chevrolet Corvette Z06	7:42.9	Jan Magnussen
11.	Porsche 996 GT3 RS	7:43	"Motor" magazine
12.	Pagani Zonda C12 S	7:44	Sport Auto

[Vegas_Sirk]

Originally Posted by esquire

very interesting. i'm curious how impactful the benefits of the embedded turbos will be. certainly they've made it more difficult to install aftermarket turbos. WIth an aftermarket tuner segment as large as nissan has, the benefits of the embedded turbo would have to outweigh alienating their tuning segment to a large degree. though its possible, that the price, and rarity of this car might make my previous point a non-factor.

also... 480ps horsepower?? what does the denotation ps mean? if 480ps horsepower is the same as our standard horsepower measurements, i suspect that a mid 7's time at the ring is improbable. The engine is admittedly less torquey than its 911 counterpart, which means to compensate it would need a high revving engine. Losing 2 cylinders and increasing the displacement would mean either a larger bore, or longer stroke, which translates to less rev capability. Either way, i don't know that the 6 cylinder paradigm on a car of this weight could be the high revving screamer it would need to be to compete with a 911 turbo on the ring.

thoughts anyone?

- esquire

Same situation as the SRT4 neon ... and now the new 2.0T Audis. The aftermarket will just make new manifolds for the larger turbos ... not too much of an issue.


Also the 7:15 lap time seems unreasonable and Im a HARDCORE GTR fan ... I have been following the build since the 2001 Proto (which IMO looked better). I can believe the "under 7:35" time as that seems reasonable but to take another 20secs off that is insane.
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[Zeiss]

CCX is getting tested this month...

[SpecC]

Originally Posted by BNR32

CCX is getting tested this month...

hahaha that thing is just going to end up in a tree somewhere with the driver like this

[Zeiss]

Originally Posted by SpecC

hahaha that thing is just going to end up in a tree somewhere with the driver like this

It's good to see these new smilies getting put into good use!
<--- LOL

[Sedan_Clan]

Doesn't Porsche still hold the record for the fastest time around the Ring?

[DM1]

Just out of curiosity, I've searched but couldn't find anything,... what is the time for the Enzo?