[Deho]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

The only problem with a loud gas car next to you is it instantly attracts the wrong kind of attention from law enforcement.

I know we are on a forum that is mostly US-centric but one other thing we don't nearly talk about when we compare ICE cars and EVs is emissions. I know you were in jest, but I think it's always important to remind ICE lovers that these cars litteraly make people sick with their toxic fumes.

EVs have other problems, but local emissions, which are a big problem especially in dense cities, ain't one.

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

Believe me, it is awesome being next to gas cars to hear all their straining engine noises and fart shifting sounds. So please, keep driving what you drive.

That's the plan, Stan.

[Blue Angel]

Originally Posted by Deho

I think it's always important to remind ICE lovers that these cars litteraly make people sick with their toxic fumes.

EVs have other problems…

…like higher particulates from brake, tire and road wear, which also cause high levels of local emissions, child labor in foreign cobalt mines, and the vast expansion of destructive mining operations which destroy other country’s ecosystems.

But yeah, all good because the air in our cities gets marginally cleaner.

Can we stop virtue signaling already? You are not a better person because you bought an EV. Buying more stuff is not going to save the planet.

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by Blue Angel

…like higher particulates from brake, tire and road wear, which also cause high levels of local emissions, child labor in foreign cobalt mines, and the vast expansion of destructive mining operations which destroy other country’s ecosystems.

But yeah, all good because the air ini7 our cities gets marginally cleaner.

Can we stop virtue signaling already? You are not a better person because you bought an EV. Buying more stuff is not going to save the planet.

Umm, for every EV sedan there is a ICE SAV or pick up that weighs more. Brakes? My 5000lb i4 barely uses brakes at all due to heavy regen. Also why
several tests have shown the 5000lb M50 out braking an M3. Anything else you need to be educated on? FYI, read about BMW's commitment to avoid using cobalt and other materials that violate human rights.

[Scrapula]

Originally Posted by Blue Angel

…like higher particulates from brake, tire and road wear, which also cause high levels of local emissions, child labor in foreign cobalt mines, and the vast expansion of destructive mining operations which destroy other country’s ecosystems.

But yeah, all good because the air in our cities gets marginally cleaner.

Can we stop virtue signaling already? You are not a better person because you bought an EV. Buying more stuff is not going to save the planet.

Just to be clear, BMW does not use rare earth metals, ie Cobalt, in their EV motors. They are much more ‘earth friendly’ than other manufacturers. So many people don’t understand that there are significant design differences between manufacturer’s electric motors. BMW knows how to build motors, regardless of the power source (fuel or ions creating a magnetic field).

[Blue Angel]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

Anything else you need to be educated on? FYI, read about BMW's commitment to avoid using cobalt and other materials that violate human rights.

If BMW is somehow sourcing completely ethically produced cobalt for their batteries, all that does is shift the atrocities to another brand. It doesn’t mean anything when the world is dealing in a supply-limited market.

You’re an AMAZING human being already, but if you need further education let me know. (Pro tip: buying two EVs makes you TWICE as amazing!)

[Blue Angel]

Originally Posted by Scrapula

Just to be clear, BMW does not use rare earth metals, ie Cobalt, in their EV motors. They are much more ‘earth friendly’ than other manufacturers. So many people don’t understand that there are significant design differences between manufacturer’s electric motors. BMW knows how to build motors, regardless of the power source (fuel or ions creating a magnetic field).

It’s the battery that contains most of the problematic materials. Rare-earth-free motors are desirable to reduce dependence on Chinese supply chains, which can be done, but not so easy with batteries.

Look, I’m not anti-EV, far from it! For some people they make a lot of sense. But for many they don’t. Mandating them is foolish, and pretending you’re saving the planet by buying one is even more so.

That’s literally all I’m saying.

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

Umm, for every EV sedan there is a ICE SAV or pick up that weighs more. Brakes? My 5000lb i4 barely uses brakes at all due to heavy regen. Also why
several tests have shown the 5000lb M50 out braking an M3. Anything else you need to be educated on? FYI, read about BMW's commitment to avoid using cobalt and other materials that violate human rights.

I would say that he largely left you splashing in the shallow end.

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by Neusser

Good? 73 km/h? Is this a serious headline?



The G30 did it in 79 km/h and nearly cracked 80--and it didn't even have the 704 M-Sport setup!

Like all EVs, this G60 is a pig.

The G30 humiliates the G60 in all areas. Honestly, for a 5-Series the G60 is so disappointing. I got to see the I5 M60 (the first to arrive in Brazil) in person. The interior is 3 cuts below the G30. It lost that quality unbreakable feeling of the G30.

Here in Brazil there is no extended leather option, therefore you get to look at cheap plastics hovering over your speedometer. Then there is the cheap plastics in the center console for the cupholders and door compartments. Honestly everything in the car just feels cheap. Its so much worse built than the G30. Its unbelievable. I own an F90 M5 Competition and was incredibly disappointed with the drop in quality (my son also owns a G30).

The G30 also has aluminum chassis, various aluminum components, where as the G60 doesn't, making it so much heavier.

The G60 has penalties in handling, quality, almost all aspects other than tech and powertrain options.

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by CarlosM4

The G30 humiliates the G60 in all areas. Honestly, for a 5-Series the G60 is so disappointing. I got to see the I5 M60 (the first to arrive in Brazil) in person. The interior is 3 cuts below the G30. It lost that quality unbreakable feeling of the G30.

Here in Brazil there is no extended leather option, therefore you get to look at cheap plastics hovering over your speedometer. Then there is the cheap plastics in the center console for the cupholders and door compartments. Honestly everything in the car just feels cheap. Its so much worse built than the G30. Its unbelievable. I own an F90 M5 Competition and was incredibly disappointed with the drop in quality (my son also owns a G30).

The G30 also has aluminum chassis, various aluminum components, where as the G60 doesn't, making it so much heavier.

The G60 has penalties in handling, quality, almost all aspects other than tech and powertrain options.

Excellent points.

I know the E39 is a cult classic, but I do wonder if the G30/31 won't be considered the high water mark for the 5er by future automotive historians.

It is so balanced, and the aluminum suspension is a work of art.

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by Neusser

Excellent points.

I know the E39 is a cult classic, but I do wonder if the G30/31 won't be considered the high water mark for the 5er by future automotive historians.

It is so balanced, and the aluminum suspension is a work of art.

I am gonna go out on a limb here, but I think the G30 is the next E39 5-Series. The E39 too got a ton of hate when it was released (not as much of a driver's BMW, and blah blah), but over time people came to appreciate it, due to its sheer engineering, and the brilliance that it is to drive.

The G30 falls somewhere in that ballpark. Its an awesome car.Its such an elegant, well refined, well thought out car.

I love my F90 M5. I have owned a W213 E63 S too, which is sort of a monster and a more fun car, but the M5 is so much more well balanced and nicer to use.

My son has a 540i M Sport - its such a master piece too. Yeah, its a bit muted, but who cares, its still great to drive, and works well in any circunstance like a 5er should.

When I got to see the G60 I5 M60 in person, my jaw dropped. The car feels so much cheaper, much more gadget over good engineering.