06-21-2023, 06:51 PM | #45 | |
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06-21-2023, 07:15 PM | #46 |
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Space tourism at least from USA launch sites is pretty strictly regulated by the FAA. Anyone booking a space tourist flight with SpaceX also had the benefit of NASA oversight in the design/certification/operation of Crew Dragon. Boeing's Starliner is still tied up in the certification process after failing a few un-crewed flight tests.....
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06-21-2023, 07:15 PM | #47 | |
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If the Titan vessel is stuck at the Titanic seabed as we speak, since a couple of days, then that vessel has been permanently exposed to that crushing ± 375atm pressure down there. "See How Crushing Pressures Increase in the Ocean’s Depths If the missing Titan submersible were near the Titanic, it would experience pressure higher than that of a great white shark bite By Sophie Bushwick on June 21, 2023 https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...oceans-depths/ Search-and-rescue efforts continue for the Titan submersible, an underwater craft that went missing on Sunday with five people onboard during a dive to the shipwrecked remains of the Titanic. The submersible does not seem to be at the water’s surface, because attempts to locate the craft from the air have searched 10,000 square miles of ocean without a glimpse. Sonar buoys did, however, detect underwater banging noises within the search region. Remotely operated diving vehicles have been targeting the location of those sounds. If the Titan has become stranded at lower depths, one of the greatest dangers it faces is increasing water pressure as the ocean gets deeper. Everything on Earth’s surface experiences some pressure from the weight of the air above us. That’s why the pressure at sea level is often characterized as one atmosphere, a unit equivalent to almost 15 pounds per square inch (psi). Start descending into the ocean, and the air’s weight is joined by that of the water. For every 33 feet (10 meters) of saltwater depth, pressure increases by another atmosphere. Scientists have divided the ocean’s depths into various zones, and the light and pressure in each one determines what kind of life can survive there. For instance, a variety of plants and animals thrive in the epipelagic, or sunlight, zone—the top layer of water, where light is strong and pressure is relatively low. But sunlight typically only penetrates water to a depth of 656 feet, where the water pressure is about 21 atmospheres, or roughly equivalent to two adult humans balancing on a one-square-inch spot. To reach the remains of the Titanic, a vessel must go much lower than that. The wreck sits in the dark bathypelagic, or midnight, zone, at a spot 12,400 feet below the ocean’s surface. The pressure around the famous sunken ship is about 375 atmospheres. That means every square inch of an object’s surface experiences the equivalent of 5,500 pounds of force. Such an amount is greater than the bite pressure exerted by some of the strongest jaws in the animal kingdom: Crocodile bites have been measured at up to 3,700 psi. And one computer modeling study has estimated that a relatively large great white shark could sink its teeth into prey with a force of almost 4,000 psi. For submersibles to survive the equivalent of being crushed in a great white shark’s jaws, they must be built of strong materials and have a shape that will withstand the water pressing in on all sides. To cope with the latter, many of these vehicles are spherical; the missing Titan is cylindrical. On top of that, a deep-sea submersibles require an oxygen supply for their passengers, as well as carbon dioxide scrubbers to prevent those passengers from suffocating in their own exhaled breath, a heating system to withstand the cold at depths sunlight never reaches, and sensing and navigation systems to guide the vessels as they descend, locate a target such as the shipwreck of the Titanic—and return to the surface."
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06-21-2023, 10:01 PM | #49 |
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If they are still alive, all of them are probably doing some pretty serious reflecting on their lives and people they've impacted positively or negatively. I do wonder if they got saved, would they (especially the super wealthy among them) try to do a lot more good with what they have for others or would they stay much the same as they are (for better or worse) when they went into the sub. My thought is the former.
End of the day, this was risky and they knew it. Sucks, but that is what it is. Not certain I agree with the amount of expense being put forth to find this needle in a haystack, especially since that expense will be borne by taxpayers who probably aren't too aggrieved either way. |
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06-21-2023, 11:37 PM | #50 |
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I work with Subsea ROVs and Hydro Acoustic Beacons everyday for my job.
So we launch unmanned ROVs all the time. These ROVs have beacons on them that communicate with a Transceiver Pole that is located on the bottom of my ships hull. The beacons and transceiver head that we use is rated for 5K meters. I have never had a job that had me testing that to its limits but they are rather reliable. See attached linked for what should have been on that sub. https://www.sonardyne.com/products/w...ioning-beacon/ They should have had 2 of these on the sub for redundancy if safety was on their mind and with human lives on the line I would have hoped they did. The ship that the sub was brought out on probably had what's called a HiPAP extending below their hull that would communicate with the sub so they could see where it is at on their Dynamic Positioning screens or Survey Screens. See link below.. https://www.kongsberg.com/maritime/p.../hipap-models/ I have not been following the news because I work 12hr night shift but I use these systems everyday. I hear this guy liked to cut corners in safety. Would not be surprised if they are dead and have been dead from the beginning. Usually currents arent strong at those depths and depending on how heavy that thing was it should be very close to where they are at if they only lost communications 15 minutes from depth. That is unless of course it was crushed to the size of a trashcan and the rescuers no longer know what they are actually looking for. |
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06-22-2023, 01:46 AM | #51 |
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Read below - Sounds like cutting more than only corners. Rather a modern-day tale of Icarus and hubris.
The question is to what extent wealthy tourists (flatteringly labeled "mission specialists") were (made) aware of several red flags. (source: CNN - June 22, 2023 - https://edition.cnn.com/americas/liv...-23/index.html)
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06-22-2023, 03:52 AM | #52 | |
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06-22-2023, 07:31 AM | #53 |
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All the hype aside, and at least I hope they find them, even though I have little hope they will be alive.... it still begs the question, specifically in this forum... who would not say yes if a trip to the Titanic or into Space would be offered to you (let say free or at a cost you would accept), ok, think SpaceEx or maybe a bit more reputable company than OceanGate..... for me, Hell YES, I am in! (let's hope thy find them)
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06-22-2023, 07:57 AM | #54 |
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Have you ever noticed that every time the experts say don't do something and the bean counters and desk jockeys override them, something bad happens?
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06-22-2023, 09:45 AM | #55 | |
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the CEO here seems to have been a salesman over everything... The general modern company approach is... as long as its good enough and will sell... it's fine.
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06-22-2023, 09:55 AM | #56 |
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06-22-2023, 10:33 AM | #57 |
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Trip to the titanic in a sub, no, why, who cares.
Trip to space which no tourist has actually done yet, meh only if it was to a place to do something, explore and walk on the moon, mars, or visit Lunar Park. All these rich idiots only do these things to brag to their friends.
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06-22-2023, 10:49 AM | #58 |
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I believe that two rich Russians, male and female, paid millions to go to the Space Station if I remember. I stand to be corrected.
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06-22-2023, 11:01 AM | #59 | |
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Perhaps, my reference was to the blue origin, virgin, space x tourist rides which don't actually go to outer space.
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06-22-2023, 11:06 AM | #60 |
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Very likely imploded and the sub along with all of its contents are in a million pieces spread across the ocean floor or have compacted to the size of a thimble.
Last edited by Chihuahua; 06-22-2023 at 11:11 AM.. |
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06-22-2023, 11:07 AM | #61 |
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06-22-2023, 11:10 AM | #62 |
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Besides he obvious about this sub, how about not having water, food, or a big enough space to store urine and shit for five days. The smell alone would have killed me.
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06-22-2023, 12:29 PM | #63 |
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https://nypost.com/2023/06/21/missin...-live-updates/
A remotely operated vehicle discovered a debris field while searching the site of the Titanic's wreckage for the missing OceanGate submersible, the US Coast Guard said. The update was shared in a tweet Thursday by the First Coast Guard District, which wrote, "A debris field was discovered within the search area by an ROV near the Titanic." "Experts within the unified command are evaluating the information," the Coast Guard added.
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06-22-2023, 01:00 PM | #64 |
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I know it's premature but if the debris field is the missing sub, I can't imagine how they died. I hope it was fast, unlike suffocating to death.
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06-22-2023, 01:10 PM | #65 | |
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Then the question would be did the thing implode right when they went down or has it been stuck down there for a long time for some reason and then imploded. Obviously the first would be better since you probably never saw it coming. What I found interesting is that the CEO was down there. So he must have been a true believer in his own bs given the fact he obviously knew about all the issues and corner cutting that was being done but still went down there. I'm not so sure his passengers would have done the same if they knew what we all know now. |
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06-22-2023, 01:41 PM | #66 |
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