[See5]

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...r-of-the-year/

The C8 beating out the 911 at the track is interesting considering the crowing in this thread. I think it's pretty damn impressive given that they're just starting and it's available for around $70K.

[Funf6cyl]

Originally Posted by See5

The C8 beating out the 911 at the track is interesting considering the crowing in this thread. I think it's pretty damn impressive given that they're just starting and it's available for around $70K.

Well, the C8 does have stickier tires. Chevy also has engineers on site tinkering with the car. In the MT review the 992 crushed the C8 on the track so something doesn’t seem right. Maybe it’s the driver. I trust Randy Pobst’s time driving two cars vs a random journalist.
There will be plenty more track times, but this one doesn’t make any sense. Chevy won’t even release the C8 ring time bc it likely doesn’t show favorably against the 992S.

[Towerworld]

Originally Posted by Funf6cyl

Well, the C8 does have stickier tires. Chevy also has engineers on site tinkering with the car. In the MT review the 992 crushed the C8 on the track so something doesn’t seem right. Maybe it’s the driver. I trust Randy Pobst’s time driving two cars vs a random journalist.
There will be plenty more track times, but this one doesn’t make any sense. Chevy won’t even release the C8 ring time bc it likely doesn’t show favorably against the 992S.

In MT's test that wasn't a track though just a closed section of road with uneven surfaces ect, not to mention the C8 is pre-production and constantly being re-calibrated.

[N54Yankee]

Originally Posted by Funf6cyl

Well, the C8 does have stickier tires. Chevy also has engineers on site tinkering with the car. In the MT review the 992 crushed the C8 on the track so something doesn’t seem right. Maybe it’s the driver. I trust Randy Pobst’s time driving two cars vs a random journalist.
There will be plenty more track times, but this one doesn’t make any sense. Chevy won’t even release the C8 ring time bc it likely doesn’t show favorably against the 992S.

Maybe I missed it, where does it say in that story what tires the two cars wore that day and where does it say the Corvette crew “tinkered” with the car?

C8 won’t be on sale for some time yet and you take that as hiding the Nurburgring official time because you and you alone think it can’t run with the new 911? An awful lot of assumptions you have there.

Earlier in this thread you said—

Chris Walton drove both and is more than a capable driver.
I don’t think Fastest Laps is definitive. What is definitive is same day, same driver. Or at least same driver and procedures, like Sport Auto.
Again, I don’t see anything major changing the performance outcome for the Vet

Which on several counts contract what you say now. The MT test was not done by Probst or any pro wheel guy and you grabbed ahold of those times and stood by them and the R&T was done on the same day but this time it’s irrelevant to you.
And finally the Nurburgring time you allude to is a timed number laid down by a pro driver and is of course, on Fastest Laps site which catalogs official pro track times not done on the same day. Guess if it suits your car of choice it’s all good.
Regardless of the see-saw opinions you have there will be further head to heads in the weeks to come and I certainly look forward to them.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by See5

The C8 beating out the 911 at the track is interesting considering the crowing in the other C8 thread. I think it's pretty damn impressive given that they're just starting and it's available for around $70K.

...and the GTR Nismo. Damn impressive is correct, keeping in mind this is the base Corvette. I have a feeling the Z06 and ZR1 variants are going to break some hearts.

[N54Yankee]

Originally Posted by Towerworld

In MT's test that wasn't a track though just a closed section of road with uneven surfaces ect, not to mention the C8 is pre-production and constantly being re-calibrated.

Same thing I said to him earlier in this thread but now he’s done a 180*

C8 is a ways from sales to the public and they will sort out the trans shifting issue with some software tweaks and a touch more turns of screws and what not to dial in the suspension and some other minor recalibrations and the car will be ready for real lap times and on to the many buyers.
No sense at all racing to lay down official Ring time if the car isn’t 100% finished. One thing we can be sure of, it’s not going to be slower when it’s ready for it’s proper rolling out.

[N54Yankee]

Originally Posted by hellrotm

...and the GTR Nismo. Damn impressive is correct, keeping in mind this is the base Corvette. I have a feeling the Z06 and ZR1 variants are going to break some hearts.

The Z51 will break hearts also and seems to be doing so already.

[Funf6cyl]

Originally Posted by N54Yankee

Maybe I missed it, where does it say in that story what tires the two cars wore that day and where does it say the Corvette crew “tinkered” with the car?

C8 won’t be on sale for some time yet and you take that as hiding the Nurburgring official time because you and you alone think it can’t run with the new 911? An awful lot of assumptions you have there.

Earlier in this thread you said—

Which on several counts contract what you say now. The MT test was not done by Probst or any pro wheel guy and you grabbed ahold of those times and stood by them and the R&T was done on the same day but this time it’s irrelevant to you.
And finally the Nurburgring time you allude to is a timed number laid down by a pro driver and is of course, on Fastest Laps site which catalogs official pro track times not done on the same day. Guess if it suits your car of choice it’s all good.
Regardless of the see-saw opinions you have there will be further head to heads in the weeks to come and I certainly look forward to them.

No you are taking that out of context. My point on Pobst was that I trust a seasoned driver most. Chris Walton from my knowledge is certainly more of a driver than any of the guys from R&T so there is a degree of greater capability there.
The article states Chevy took the car back each night and checked it over and from what I was told from someone involved the caveat allowed them to do so.
Wrt Ring times. I’m talking about Sport Auto’s time by the same driver. Aside from that, chevys factory time won’t beat Porsche’s factory times. There’s also a reason Chevy never released a C7 Vette time - bc it couldn’t beat the 991.1S. So it’s not just a C8 thing. Mind you a ZR1 with 750 hp is slower on the Ring than a 520 hp GT3 RS.

[BMWILUVU]

Originally Posted by See5

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...r-of-the-year/

The C8 beating out the 911 at the track is interesting considering the crowing in this thread. I think it's pretty damn impressive given that they're just starting and it's available for around $70K.

Their article is pointless for us. Noone here is going to buy a Hyundai. The C8 does not even have to beat a 992 on a track. If it comes close, its already a win. It is about much more than just lap-times.

[N54Yankee]

You specifically said professional drivers and not some magazine hack, Walton is a mag hack plain as day.
Oh, you spoke to someone with insider knowledge of what was going on behind garage doors. Yeah, ok.
The C7 was a 1/10 sec behind the 911 and I posted the same a couple weeks ago right here on this site, the same thing you said. It’s not news to me and I think Chevy definitely should have allowed the base C7 time to stand.
The C8 hadn’t run an official Ring time yet, don’t know how you reach the conclusion that they’re hiding the poor result. Nor how you’re sure the factory times won’t match or beat the 911, you sure do like your speculation.

The C7 Z06 did run the Ring and was good enough be best the 991 Turbo S, 997 GT2 and 991 GT3 RS cars costing many thousands more. Corvette runs with the bigs dogs. Hard for some to swallow. But then again you previously dismissed Nurburgring when I previously brought it up because they don’t use the same drivers on the same day, remember saying that?

[Red Bread]

I'm just going to go with the C8 being the better car mainly to annoy the 992 crowd. Both are too big and heavy for my consideration anyway. I'd have a 997.2 GTS before either, but when considering the overall package and cost, it's hard to deny what the C8 is doing. The Z06 and Zora/ZR1 are going to be big trouble for Stuttgart.

[Funf6cyl]

Originally Posted by N54Yankee

You specifically said professional drivers and not some magazine hack, Walton is a mag hack plain as day.
Oh, you spoke to someone with insider knowledge of what was going on behind garage doors. Yeah, ok.
The C7 was a 1/10 sec behind the 911 and I posted the same a couple weeks ago right here on this site, the same thing you said. It’s not news to me and I think Chevy definitely should have allowed the base C7 time to stand.
The C8 hadn’t run an official Ring time yet, don’t know how you reach the conclusion that they’re hiding the poor result. Nor how you’re sure the factory times won’t match or beat the 911, you sure do like your speculation.

The C7 Z06 did run the Ring and was good enough be best the 991 Turbo S, 997 GT2 and 991 GT3 RS cars costing many thousands more. Corvette runs with the bigs dogs. Hard for some to swallow. But then again you previously dismissed Nurburgring when I previously brought it up because they don’t use the same drivers on the same day, remember saying that?

As for the Road and Track, yes, I as well as some friends know Matt Farah very well since he grew up here.
Huh? The C7 z06 with cup tires ran 7:13.9 on the Ring and the 991.2 GT3 ran 7:12.7 both in the hands of Sport Auto’s Christian Gebhardt. Go look them up.
Also funny bc if you do look at Fastest Laps, the 991 GT3RS beats the C7 ZR1 on 4 out of 5 tracks despite the Zr1 having 50% more hp and about 100% more torque. And if you throw the 991 GT2RS in there...

The C7 Z51 never had its time released - again bc it was slower than a 991 Carrera S that had a ton less power and torque.

[WestRace]

OK, I hate to say it but it seems like the only claim to fame the C8 got right now is cheap. It's just two much to take. Corvette die-hards right now seem even more die harder -))

[m630]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

I'm just going to go with the C8 being the better car mainly to annoy the 992 crowd. Both are too big and heavy for my consideration anyway. I'd have a 997.2 GTS before either, but when considering the overall package and cost, it's hard to deny what the C8 is doing. The Z06 and Zora/ZR1 are going to be big trouble for Stuttgart.

Well id have a Singer targa 4.0 but we’re not talking about those cars!!!!

Lets see, official fastest ring lap for a prod sports car, that’d be the 911 GT2 RS MR at 6:44.749

https://www.nuerburgring.de/en/fans-info/info/record-drives-lap-times-nuerburgring.html

Or we can just go with the “base” 911 GT2 RS at 6:47.30

ah yes, big trouble, big big trouble for Stuttgart

Lets wait till chevy posts official times with production cars to make any proclamations. Im glad they offer such a car to be competitive in their target market, but its just two different crowds that will never equate them as comparable regardless of the performance stats and thats ok.... they’re just different cars for different people

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by m630

Well id have a Singer targa 4.0 but we're not talking about those cars!!!!

Lets see, official fastest ring lap for a prod sports car, that'd be the 911 GT2 RS MR at 6:44.749

https://www.nuerburgring.de/en/fans-...rburgring.html

Or we can just go with the "base" 911 GT2 RS at 6:47.30

ah yes, big trouble, big big trouble for Stuttgart

Lets wait till chevy posts official times with production cars to make any proclamations. Im glad they offer such a car to be competitive in their target market, but its just two different crowds that will never equate them as comparable regardless of the performance stats and thats ok.... they're just different cars for different people

Funny. When a Corvette costs what a GT2 RS costs, let's discuss. But let's play like for like and see how it goes, okay?

Or better, let's just see how the C8R does at LeMans.

And I know a few folks with RS cars and Corvettes, so perhaps they're not really different cars for different folks?

[m630]

Cost is moot. Porsche is not Chevy no matter performance stats. A WRX is fast as anything but you wouldnt compare it to the vette even though prices are quite different, you know....


I know alot of peps with P cars, I know none that own a vette (other than perhaps a classic pre70s that doesnt count anyway ....I can admit I like the ‘63 best though anything from ‘67 back works in my garage )

[N54Yankee]

Originally Posted by WestRace

OK, I hate to say it but it seems like the only claim to fame the C8 got right now is cheap. It's just two much to take. Corvette die-hards right now seem even more die harder -))

Yeah, coming in third place in this story only behind a McLaren and a Lamborghini on the track doesn’t mean anything. Now that's funny.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by m630

Cost is moot. Porsche is not Chevy no matter performance stats. A WRX is fast as anything but you wouldnt compare it to the vette even though prices are quite different, you know....


I know alot of peps with P cars, I know none that own a vette (other than perhaps a classic pre70s that doesnt count anyway ....I can admit I like the '63 best though anything from '67 back works in my garage )

No, a WRX is not fast, anywhere.

Go to a track. Look at the leaderboards. Off track, a Porsche has a few considerable benefits, but on track, the C7 more than held its own. The C8, especially the higher end models should continue this trend and probably further it.

I love 911's and I'm really not a huge Corvette fan, but the simple fact is that Corvette flipping their layout presents a potentially game changing attack to the 911 that the front engine cars just weren't going to attain.

And not using price in comparisons results in stupid comments like a Senna sure is nicer than a 911 T. Why would anyone buy the P Car?!

Oh, and yes, I'd have a Singer over any current run car from any manufacturer.

[The HACK]

Guys...

https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/laguna-seca-post-1988

See where #64 is? Yeah. Corvette has ALWAYS beat The base trim Porsche’s.

C7 (last gen) Stingray: 1:38.28.
991 (last gen) 911 base: 1:39.30.

Both driven by Randy Pobst.

Where the Corvette has always fallen short is when you start comparing the upper trims (Z06 vs GT3 RS, ZR1 vs GT2 RS) when it comes to track times. That’s what the move to mid engine was suppose to alleviate, the high HP versions not being able to keep up with how the 911 GTx RSes able to laid down power.

By sheer extrapolation, the fact that the z51 C8 is less than 1/4s faster than the 992 should be of concern, as the base C7 bested the base 911 S by a full second at Laguna, where the ability to lay down power should be in favor of the 911.

It’s no guarantee that any of the higher trims will be able to keep up with the Porsche’s considering the base Z51 seems to have lost significant edge to the Porsche on raw lap times.

[WestRace]

I find it's funny that people getting all worked up over .2 second. OK, so if Pobst can get an extra .2 second, does it turn the C8 from dog to god? After a bunch of journos saying a bunch of things, now all of sudden Randy is the final decider? Remember that Motortrend originally did not allow his opinions to count in their Performance of the Year final tally. Maybe only in recent years. If every car is judged by track time, why not just have a computer doing all the works for you?

[The HACK]

Because every 2/10th of a second on track by Randy Pobst translates to several seconds in the hands of AMATEURS.

I took my Grand Sport to Laguna on a near perfect day and can’t come within 10 seconds of Randy’s time. As the skill set and experience move away from the professional spectrums, the gap becomes bigger and bigger, not smaller. A car that a professional reviewer and driver like Randy can wring out for that extra 2/10th of a second on track ends up being several seconds faster on the same track. My personal experience and 20 years tracking bears this out.

Sure, we can always argue that stuff like this matters to 0.0001% of the populace that actually tracks their cars. But we’re arguing over SPORTS CARS. Not minivans, not SUVs, not rental fleet sedans. Ultimately the performance aspect is what we’re paying extra for, otherwise we should all be happy with a Veloster N for 1/2 the price.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by WestRace

I find it's funny that people getting all worked up over .2 second. OK, so if Pobst can get an extra .2 second, does it turn the C8 from dog to god? After a bunch of journos saying a bunch of things, now all of sudden Randy is the final decider? Remember that Motortrend originally did not allow his opinions to count in their Performance of the Year final tally. Maybe only in recent years. If every car is judged by track time, why not just have a computer doing all the works for you?

This. Talk about pointless. Almost no one is going to push these cars this hard anyway so who cares? Nothing changes the fact the vette is so damn ugly either.