[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

Yes the pit stop was bad, but I'm nor so sure the race was lost there.
Either way he was still help up by VET and I doubt the 1.5 seconds would have gotten him past any sooner.

I can't speak for him passing but I can definitely speak for him getting there 2 laps earlier and being in a position to attempt the pass.

And we know how relentless his race pace has been this entire year, especially Hungary.

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by M5theonlyone

Yes,broke article 22.4 then and Merc was banned from Silverstone holding young drivers tests.Unknown drivers in tyre tests wore black helmets.

Oh I thought it was Hamilton and Rosberg.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

I think he's referring to the '13? scandal. They only had black helmets though I thought.

Originally Posted by M5theonlyone

Yes,broke article 22.4 then and Merc was banned from Silverstone holding young drivers tests.Unknown drivers in tyre tests wore black helmets.

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

Oh I thought it was Hamilton and Rosberg.

Originally Posted by M5theonlyone

Wasn't sure at the time but could have been.

It was HAM and ROS in unbranded kit.

[yco]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

The huge gap between Leclerc and Vettel was the result of strategy and him being left out to block Hamilton. I know you're a hater, but come on the actual gap in pace wasn't that large.

im not a hater.. i only truly believe that we lost Vet after last year's German GP.. yes his soft tires werent brand new though using or choosing tires partially belongs to drivers as well.. and the gap at the end of the race was bigger than an additional stop with faster tires one way or another.. and 0.7 behind from his teammate with the same car in quali..

Vettel is a driver that can be beaten in his mind first way before overtaking himself.. like he was telling on the radio that Ham is coming way too fast and he ll take us.. or something like that he said on the radio.. i may criticize him a bit harsh but he has 4 tittles in his pocket and recent 1.5 years he can not carry that.. only very few F1 drivers have that many champs.. Vettel is already beaten psychologically this year.. and this fall ll continue until he really does something about it.. but it seems first he needs to beat Leclerc officially from now on..

---

and edit: for the testing part.. yes it was a 2 year old car at that time but Ferrari made some testing with Pirelli as well at that time.. and it was before Merc actually if i remember that right.. 1000km of testing cant be the only reason of one of the most successful team's secret.. it was 6 years ago already..

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by yco

im not a hater.. i only truly believe that we lost Vet after last year's German GP.. yes his soft tires werent brand new though using or choosing tires partially belongs to drivers as well.. and the gap at the end of the race was bigger than an additional stop with faster tires one way or another.. and 0.7 behind from his teammate with the same car in quali..

Vettel is a driver that can be beaten in his mind first way before overtaking himself.. like he was telling on the radio that Ham is coming way too fast and he ll take us.. or something like that he said on the radio.. i may criticize him a bit harsh but he has 4 tittles in his pocket and recent 1.5 years he can not carry that.. only very few F1 drivers have that many champs.. Vettel is already beaten psychologically this year.. and this fall ll continue until he really does something about it.. but it seems first he needs to beat Leclerc officially from now on..

---

and edit: for the testing part.. yes it was a 2 year old car at that time but Ferrari made some testing with Pirelli as well at that time.. and it was before Merc actually if i remember that right.. 1000km of testing cant be the only reason of one of the most successful team's secret.. it was 6 years ago already..

Sebastian Vettel is really a nice guy . But this season he lost his pedals here...

[racerbruce]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Yeah . Another 1-2 laps for Lewis . But did you noticed what I saw ?
Lewis lost 1.5 + sec during his bad pitstop (took way too long) The issue was that his left rear wheel was stuck ! There at that moment Lewis lost the race by losing time in the pit ! Otherwise he was 2 laps earlier under Charles rear wing...While Charles tires were shot ..
On the other hand , the Ferrari top speed on the straights was incredible fast !
Like usual ,I saw a great race from Lewis anyway. Sadly he actually lost the race with his slow tire change ...
Great camera-setup at Eau Rouge/ Raidillon ! The cars flew through the screen like bullets !

About MAX...
Well..His race was already over after 500 meters . Caused by another bad launch control . He lost 4-5 places . Came in traffic and was sandwiched inside by Kimi and the wall of the La Source hairpin .
By Kimi's contact , his left front wheel suspension was damaged . And he ended up in the wall .
His Honda engine had already the whole weekend issues. Yesterday also during the qualifying session the Honda engine dropped several times in safety mode at full throttle, and refused to pull at 100% .
MAX is not happy , because SPA is/was his home race ! And HONDA has some work to do...ASAP !

To attempt to pass a competitior, you need to be wheel-to-wheel with them....you can't stick your nose into an area that is closing up to become zero gap....RAI's trajectory to the apex was evident....VER placed his nose into a gap where RAI could not see, or know that VER had his nose in this closing gap....additionally, take a look at the still photo (or video) of where VER's car was....it was fully outside the racing line and was on a painted curbing area....this is the area that VER was attempting to use to get by RAI....it clearly appears that VER owned the contact with RAI.

I'm not a VER basher....simply making an observation....VER continues to mature and make better choices while in the fight....this was not one of them.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by racerbruce

To attempt to pass a competitior, you need to be wheel-to-wheel with them....you can't stick your nose into an area that is closing up to become zero gap....RAI's trajectory to the apex was evident....VER placed his nose into a gap where RAI could not see, or know that VER had his nose in this closing gap....additionally, take a look at the still photo (or video) of where VER's car was....it was fully outside the racing line and was on a painted curbing area....this is the area that VER was attempting to use to get by RAI....it clearly appears that VER owned the contact with RAI.

I'm not a VER basher....simply making an observation....VER continues to mature and make better choices while in the fight....this was not one of them.

Kimi had plenty of room on the outside (but that was choosing for a longer traject) while Max was already feeling the wall on the inside .
Max could go nowhere...Max was sandwiched by Kimi ! Kimi actually closed the door ....

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Kimi had plenty of room on the outside (but that was choosing for a longer traject) while Max was already feeling the wall on the inside .
Max could go nowhere...Max was sandwiched by Kimi ! Kimi actually closed the door ....

If you watch the onboard of Perez (who was in the three wide crew with Rai and Ver), it looks like Perez saw that a collision was imminent right when Verstappen started his dive bomb manoeuvre and then he immediately bailed out of the corner and went very wide to avoid it. Pretty nice move by Perez.

[NickyC]

Good for Charles, nice to see him finally win one. Massive pressure now on Ferrari to win at their home race next week considering they likely have an even bigger advantage there. I wonder if the team will somehow screw up the strategy or in the pits like they so often do?

Gutted for Max and his fans too, terrible to see the fan favorite go out in the first turn. Also, thank GOD there was no massive collision there at Eau Rouge when Max went up the hill, he missed a car by seemingly inches going up the hill when he couldn't control his car! :O (take that back, they actually did touch. Just noticed it on the replay wow!)

Finally, please don't blame that wreck on Kimi. He had the corner, and Max dive bombed. Let's be honest here.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Kimi had plenty of room on the outside (but that was choosing for a longer traject) while Max was already feeling the wall on the inside .
Max could go nowhere...Max was sandwiched by Kimi ! Kimi actually closed the door ....

My dear friend, this is why the cars have brakes. He should have backed out of the maneuver. This is where he still has a weakness that needs to be addressed.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by NickyC

Good for Charles, nice to see him finally win one. Massive pressure now on Ferrari to win at their home race next week considering they likely have an even bigger advantage there. I wonder if the team will somehow screw up the strategy or in the pits like they so often do?

Gutted for Max and his fans too, terrible to see the fan favorite go out in the first turn. Also, thank GOD there was no massive collision there at Eau Rouge when Max went up the hill, he missed a car by seemingly inches going up the hill when he couldn't control his car! :O (take that back, they actually did touch. Just noticed it on the replay wow!)

Finally, please don't blame that wreck on Kimi. He had the corner, and Max dive bombed. Let's be honest here.

Originally Posted by MKSixer

My dear friend, this is why the cars have brakes. He should have backed out of the maneuver. This is where he still has a weakness that needs to be addressed.

Unfortunately old Max came out for this race. He panicked and tried to get all of his spots back at once that he lost from the bad start.

I can understand that impulse. What I can’t understand is Max trying to continue racing with an obviously compromised/uncontrollable damaged car. That decision to me was unbelievable especially considering the events of the previous day. Max had already effectively ended his day and of course a couple of other drivers. He (and others) were extremely lucky he didn’t cause a much bigger incident trying to continue.

I’m also not Max basher either and I enjoy the races more when he is involved/using his head. I really think the officials need to penalize Max (and other drivers that make extremely poor decisions like this) in a way that makes him think a bit harder about going off the rails like this. As I said, he and others were extremely lucky he didn't hurt himself or somebody else. Trying to continue up to Eau Rouge with his car in that condition was mind blowingly stupid and extremely dangerous.

He just got way too amped up for his home race.

[NickyC]

Originally Posted by minn19

I’m also not Max basher either and I enjoy the races more when he is involved/using his head. I really think the officials need to penalize Max (and other drivers that make extremely poor decisions like this) in a way that makes him think a bit harder about going off the rails like this. As I said, he and others were extremely lucky he didn't hurt himself or somebody else. Trying to continue up to Eau Rouge with his car in that condition was mind blowingly stupid and extremely dangerous.

For sure, I was watching the race with my mom and we both let out an audible *gasp* when that Alfa just skipped by him in the middle of Eau Rouge. Was that Kimi? I dunno, but damn that was a close one.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by NickyC

For sure, I was watching the race with my mom and we both let out an audible *gasp* when that Alfa just skipped by him in the middle of Eau Rouge. Was that Kimi? I dunno, but damn that was a close one.

It was Kimi. Can you imagine if MV hit him again and obviously caused him a much bigger accident.........? Had Kimi walked away unscathed, MV might have been facing a much bigger opponent in the pits than his run in with Ocon last year.

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by NickyC

For sure, I was watching the race with my mom and we both let out an audible *gasp* when that Alfa just skipped by him in the middle of Eau Rouge. Was that Kimi? I dunno, but damn that was a close one.

Yea it was Kimi. I wish the onboards on f1tv captured the mic too. Would love to hear that.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by NickyC

Good for Charles, nice to see him finally win one. Massive pressure now on Ferrari to win at their home race next week considering they likely have an even bigger advantage there. I wonder if the team will somehow screw up the strategy or in the pits like they so often do?

Gutted for Max and his fans too, terrible to see the fan favorite go out in the first turn. Also, thank GOD there was no massive collision there at Eau Rouge when Max went up the hill, he missed a car by seemingly inches going up the hill when he couldn't control his car! :O (take that back, they actually did touch. Just noticed it on the replay wow!)

Finally, please don't blame that wreck on Kimi. He had the corner, and Max dive bombed. Let's be honest here.

Agree that it was suicide move by Max and him saying 'I guess he didn't see me' just doesn't cut it.
Repeating the strategy they did here Ferrari have every chance of doing it at Monza again by the skin go their teeth with cool Charles though the reds are at a disadvantage with the tyres.

[EdM5]

Afterwards, on Dutch television, Max was pretty realistic.
He didn't blame Kimi at all.

Max diving in to Eau Rouge with a broken suspension was terrifying to see though, especially the close call with the Alfa.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by minn19

Unfortunately old Max came out for this race. He panicked and tried to get all of his spots back at once that he lost from the bad start.

I can understand that impulse. What I can’t understand is Max trying to continue racing with an obviously compromised/uncontrollable damaged car. That decision to me was unbelievable especially considering the events of the previous day. Max had already effectively ended his day and of course a couple of other drivers. He (and others) were extremely lucky he didn’t cause a much bigger incident trying to continue.

I’m also not Max basher either and I enjoy the races more when he is involved/using his head. I really think the officials need to penalize Max (and other drivers that make extremely poor decisions like this) in a way that makes him think a bit harder about going off the rails like this. As I said, he and others were extremely lucky he didn't hurt himself or somebody else. Trying to continue up to Eau Rouge with his car in that condition was mind blowingly stupid and extremely dangerous.

He just got way too amped up for his home race.

After watching the vid many times I am bewildered why Max received no penalty and continued with his car at race speed with broken suspension/steering on straight ahead instead of trying to pull of after the first Kimi contact.
Red mist is hard to justify for Max as he has only himself to blame.

[mk1-fan]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Yeah . Another 1-2 laps for Lewis . But did you noticed what I saw ?
Lewis lost 1.5 + sec during his bad pitstop (took way too long) The issue was that his left rear wheel was stuck ! There at that moment Lewis lost the race by losing time in the pit ! Otherwise he was 2 laps earlier under Charles rear wing...While Charles tires were shot ..
On the other hand , the Ferrari top speed on the straights was incredible fast !
Like usual ,I saw a great race from Lewis anyway. Sadly he actually lost the race with his slow tire change ...
Great camera-setup at Eau Rouge/ Raidillon ! The cars flew through the screen like bullets !

About MAX...
Well..His race was already over after 500 meters . Caused by another bad launch control . He lost 4-5 places . Came in traffic and was sandwiched inside by Kimi and the wall of the La Source hairpin .
By Kimi's contact , his left front wheel suspension was damaged . And he ended up in the wall .
His Honda engine had already the whole weekend issues. Yesterday also during the qualifying session the Honda engine dropped several times in safety mode at full throttle, and refused to pull at 100% .
MAX is not happy , because SPA is/was his home race ! And HONDA has some work to do...ASAP !

RB better sort this out ASAP.

It completely messed up his race, and I am sure he would have mixed it with the Ferraris and Mercs.

A pity also that Kimi had the damage, as he was fast all weekend. Another guy I really fell sorry for is Norris, having to break down on the penultimate lap.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by mk1-fan

RB better sort this out ASAP.

It completely messed up his race, and I am sure he would have mixed it with the Ferraris and Mercs.

A pity also that Kimi had the damage, as he was fast all weekend. Another guy I really fell sorry for is Norris, having to break down on the penultimate lap.

The thing is this: Launches are completely manual and everyone has the clutch set to their individual preference. The change in 2018, if I remember correctly, was that the engineers could no longer give bite points and the primary and secondary phases of the launch had to be managed by the driver. HAM had some challenges the first race or 2 as did most of the drivers but has gotten it down to a science for the most part. Max is having bad starts because he isn't managing this process. This is a completely individual preference. Some drivers have 2 clutch paddles, some have one, and of these some are longer or shorter based on individual preference. The Mercedes drivers have 2 different steering wheel set ups for this process. Hamilton has a single long paddle which, in his estimation, gives him finer control. Bottas has the 2 paddle set up which works well for him.

Bottom line is that this is a weakness that must be addressed as well as telling Max to let the race come to him. This was something that was worked on in Hamilton's early career...to be patient and let his pace take care of any starting deficits.

To minn19 's point. The re-entry into the race with a broken suspension arm, which can be easily felt, is the most egregious error and should have been penalized for almost taking out Kimi...again. Especially after the horrible death of Antonio Hubert.

Cheers and on to Monza-MK

[racerbruce]

Originally Posted by minn19

It was Kimi. Can you imagine if MV hit him again and obviously caused him a much bigger accident.........? Had Kimi walked away unscathed, MV might have been facing a much bigger opponent in the pits than his run in with Ocon last year.

If the FIA and Race Stewards did not believe that VER's attempt to pass RAI with all four wheels off the racing surface and on a painted warning curb area at Turn 1 was not considered VER's fault....ok....it may be a subjective decision and not an objective decision....but to see the video of VER lose control of his car while climbing the hill to Eau Rouge....and to see RAI's car being just touched by VER's car....while traveling at 300 KPH....this should not have been overlooked by the FIA and Race Stewards....VER (or any competitor) cannot continue in an unsafe manner when their car has been fatally wounded (ie - no steering control).

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by racerbruce

If the FIA and Race Stewards did not believe that VER's attempt to pass RAI with all four wheels off the racing surface and on a painted warning curb area at Turn 1 was not considered VER's fault....ok....it may be a subjective decision and not an objective decision....but to see the video of VER lose control of his car while climbing the hill to Eau Rouge....and to see RAI's car being just touched by VER's car....while traveling at 300 KPH....this should not have been overlooked by the FIA and Race Stewards....VER (or any competitor) cannot continue in an unsafe manner when their car has been fatally wounded (ie - no steering control).

This. 100%.

[EdM5]

Originally Posted by racerbruce

If the FIA and Race Stewards did not believe that VER's attempt to pass RAI with all four wheels off the racing surface and on a painted warning curb area at Turn 1 was not considered VER's fault....ok....it may be a subjective decision and not an objective decision....but to see the video of VER lose control of his car while climbing the hill to Eau Rouge....and to see RAI's car being just touched by VER's car....while traveling at 300 KPH....this should not have been overlooked by the FIA and Race Stewards....VER (or any competitor) cannot continue in an unsafe manner when their car has been fatally wounded (ie - no steering control).

Dutchman here and I totally agree with you on this. That was milliseconds away from yet another disaster.
I love Max but I hate the blind Dutch patriotism surrounding him. None of the Dutch media even mentioned his poor judgement diving in to Eau Rouge with a wounded RB (where was the teamradio btw?).
But Max is a clever guy and he knew he fucked up, he was uncharacteristically very subdued during post race interviews.