[Hans Delbruck]

Good riddance to cheap BMWs.

I for one cannot stand seeing every Buffy and Biff in LA driving a 328i.

$399/mo lease?? It's cheaper to drive a BMW than a Pontiac. It's ridiculous.

This DOES dilute the brand. If you're an enthusiast, you should be happy that maybe you'll get some exclusivity back.....

This "volume" strategy was short-sighted. So many companies, governments and people go down a path of "make more today, forget about tomorrow"... bites them in the azz too.

Find your market, build a good product and you'll make money. If you really like BMW, and the company deserves your car dollars, they will build a good product and you will pay for it. If you just want a nice hood ornament for a bargain price, buy a Civic and put a BMW badge on it like the other losers who don't even know what the car can really do.

[simp0man]

It just leaves us to see who is trully a bimmer loyalist. I am getting another one, thats a fact. Great cars that's for sure!

[FirstClass]

Originally Posted by epbrown

Enthusiasts have killed more car companies than Father Time. Businesses don't need enthusiasts to survive - they need paying customers. Porsche teetered on the brink of bankruptcy catering to enthusiasts - it's the soccer moms that made them solvent.

Doesn't Porsche have the highest margin/car of anyone in the industry in addition to owning half the car companies in Europe? Was this a very long time ago?

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by FirstClass

Doesn't Porsche have the highest margin/car of anyone in the industry in addition to owning half the car companies in Europe? Was this a very long time ago?

That's because they don't spend money on R&D and can get away with taking many years to build an ugly car (Panamera).

[footie]

Originally Posted by T Bone

That's because they don't spend money on R&D and can get away with taking many years to build an ugly car (Panamera).

I sincerely hope that was a joke and not a serious statement from you TB.

If Porsche don't spend the money of R&D then they much have the best engineering team in the world, just winging it and always producing the best handling cars in the world.

Much as I dislike that continuing body style and that insistence for a rear engined layout I can't see any manufacturer with the exception of Ferrari which has the same engineering skill. If we were talking about footballers then I would be saying that BMW wouldn't be fit to tie their laces.

[Gearhead999s]

Originally Posted by T Bone

That's because they don't spend money on R&D and can get away with taking many years to build an ugly car (Panamera).

I think you are quite confused on this.Porsche also offers their engineering services to other companies like Harley davidson for the development of the Revolution motors for the V-Rods.Porsche build great cars and I would probally be driving a 911 if they were not 50% more than an M3 in Canada.At least they come with brakes that are track ready as standard!

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by Gearhead999s

I think you are quite confused on this.Porsche also offers their engineering services to other companies like Harley davidson for the development of the Revolution motors for the V-Rods.Porsche build great cars and I would probally be driving a 911 if they were not 50% more than an M3 in Canada.At least they come with brakes that are track ready as standard!

Originally Posted by footie

I sincerely hope that was a joke and not a serious statement from you TB.

If Porsche don't spend the money of R&D then they much have the best engineering team in the world, just winging it and always producing the best handling cars in the world.

Much as I dislike that continuing body style and that insistence for a rear engined layout I can't see any manufacturer with the exception of Ferrari which has the same engineering skill. If we were talking about footballers then I would be saying that BMW wouldn't be fit to tie their laces.

Not confused and not kidding. If they actually sunk profits they skim off 911 buyers and soccer moms, Porsche could have a great line up.

They have overpriced Beetles and big trucks

The only interesting car for me is the Cayman S.

[Gearhead999s]

Originally Posted by T Bone

Not confused and not kidding. If they actually sunk profits they skim off 911 buyers and soccer moms, Porsche could have a great line up.

They have overpriced Beetles and big trucks

The only interesting car for me is the Cayman S.

The Cayman S is way too underpowered for my tastes.The 911's are still the benchmark for a true drivers car.The sport-utes are another story however,but they give Porsche the resources to keep building wonderful cars.I have the use of a 997 cab and it is really a great car to drive,but it is way overpriced compared to the M3.

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by Gearhead999s

The Cayman S is way too underpowered for my tastes.The 911's are still the benchmark for a true drivers car.The sport-utes are another story however,but they give Porsche the resources to keep building wonderful cars.I have the use of a 997 cab and it is really a great car to drive,but it is way overpriced compared to the M3.

The reason why the Cayman S is under powered is they need to protect the 911. With a 911 engine the Cayman would kill the 911s.

• Protect an inheritently flawed platform
• Cripple a good new platform
• Build 5000lb trucks

This is Porsche today and it sucks. BMW is going down this path.

[footie]

TB, I'm sorry mate but I can't take anything you say seriously. Part of that is down to the fact you drive an M6, which is the biggest underachiever in the entire BMW line-up.

Gearhead,

May I suggest you get yourself on to a track with a Cayman S, hopefully against some 997C2, C2S and the odd M3. Then tell me if it's power is holding the thing back.

You are right in saying that Porsche offer and are used by a shit load of other manufacturers. Few are their equal on such things, one name springs to mind, that of Lotus but I can't think of to many banging on BMW's door for such work.

I can't see where TB's comments are coming from, in fact I don't know of any enervations that BMW have brought to the show compared to the names listed above.

[Gearhead999s]

Originally Posted by footie

TB, I'm sorry mate but I can't take anything you say seriously. Part of that is down to the fact you drive an M6, which is the biggest underachiever in the entire BMW line-up.

Gearhead,

May I suggest you get yourself on to a track with a Cayman S, hopefully against some 997C2, C2S and the odd M3. Then tell me if it's power is holding the thing back.

You are right in saying that Porsche offer and are used by a shit load of other manufacturers. Few are their equal on such things, one name springs to mind, that of Lotus but I can't think of to many banging on BMW's door for such work.

I can't see where TB's comments are coming from, in fact I don't know of any enervations that BMW have brought to the show compared to the names listed above.

I have and was disapointed in a few aspects of the car.My wifes old GTI DSG was quicker at the end of a 1/2 mile straight than the Cayman S was.If the Cayman had 400 BHP iam quite sure my opinion would be quite different as the handling and feedback were extremley good and almost viceless.Don't forget that I have actually owned a couple of 911's and I have a very broad appreciation of all great cars,not just one with a prop on the badge

[Krueger///M3]

Originally Posted by Hans Delbruck

Good riddance to cheap BMWs.

I for one cannot stand seeing every Buffy and Biff in LA driving a 328i.

$399/mo lease?? It's cheaper to drive a BMW than a Pontiac. It's ridiculous.

This DOES dilute the brand. If you're an enthusiast, you should be happy that maybe you'll get some exclusivity back.....

This "volume" strategy was short-sighted. So many companies, governments and people go down a path of "make more today, forget about tomorrow"... bites them in the azz too.

Find your market, build a good product and you'll make money. If you really like BMW, and the company deserves your car dollars, they will build a good product and you will pay for it. If you just want a nice hood ornament for a bargain price, buy a Civic and put a BMW badge on it like the other losers who don't even know what the car can really do.

+1. Great points.

[BMW-videos.com]

interesting

[JEllis]

Originally Posted by Hans Delbruck

Good riddance to cheap BMWs.

I for one cannot stand seeing every Buffy and Biff in LA driving a 328i.

$399/mo lease?? It's cheaper to drive a BMW than a Pontiac. It's ridiculous.

This DOES dilute the brand. If you're an enthusiast, you should be happy that maybe you'll get some exclusivity back.....

This "volume" strategy was short-sighted. So many companies, governments and people go down a path of "make more today, forget about tomorrow"... bites them in the azz too.

Find your market, build a good product and you'll make money. If you really like BMW, and the company deserves your car dollars, they will build a good product and you will pay for it. If you just want a nice hood ornament for a bargain price, buy a Civic and put a BMW badge on it like the other losers who don't even know what the car can really do.

Word, you and I might be some of the few that view this as a good thing BMW enthusiests. Especially those BMW fans with E92 M3's.... We could be entering some dark ages in the life of BMW meaning that the value of our M3's and the way they are viewed in history books will be positive... I can see it now "Due to economic crisis and high fuel prices BMW was forced to move away from its traditional motorsports based development program and focus on efficient gorcery getters. The E92 M3 remains a testemant to BMW's old design philosophy with its high output low displacement V8 representing the pinnacle of BMW NA engineering."

Jason

[epbrown]

Originally Posted by T Bone

The reason why the Cayman S is under powered is they need to protect the 911. With a 911 engine the Cayman would kill the 911s.

There's a tale going around the Porsche forums that some race team started running a Cayman with a 911 engine and suspension parts, and started dominating their class in racing. They were approached by Porsche after a few races, who gave them a 997 to race on the condition they'd quit racing the Cayman.

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by footie

TB, I'm sorry mate but I can't take anything you say seriously. Part of that is down to the fact you drive an M6, which is the biggest underachiever in the entire BMW line-up.

You are just an idiot.

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by epbrown

There's a tale going around the Porsche forums that some race team started running a Cayman with a 911 engine and suspension parts, and started dominating their class in racing. They were approached by Porsche after a few races, who gave them a 997 to race on the condition they'd quit racing the Cayman.

My good friend actually races one of the few Cayman S in PCA events. Regularly embarasses even well driven GT3s.

[e46e92love]

Not to offend anyone but I am glad they are doing this. They should gedt back to selling less cars for more money. Will keep quality up and to be honest, if a 5% price hike pushes a BMW out of someone's reach, they should own one. I don't feel sorry for all the people out there who stretch to afford something they really can't afford. I didn't get my BMW till I could afford it with no stress, and afford to buy it.

Again, its not BMWs fault if you can't afford their cars and its not their job to make them affordable. I will like this new sales strategy and hope this maintains profits so they can maintain quality. Even if this means that certain high-end BMWs I will no longer be able to afford.

Cheers,
e46e92

[footie]

Originally Posted by T Bone

You are just an idiot.

I am not the one who made the most stupidiest statement ever, at least my comment is based in fact, with a lighter body, a lower center of gravity and semi-race compound tyres the M6 only achieved a drop of 4 seconds on the M5 around the ring. Many here believe the tyres on their own was account for 6~8 seconds, if so then all that hard work by M-Division produced a much slower car. At least every time Porsche work on a car they make quicker not slower.

I don't want to pick on you just because you dislike Audis, but when you comment on things that have no bases in fact and to everyone else sound like BS (which it is) then you put yourself out there to have shots taken at you.

[155MPH]

Originally Posted by rldzhao

i am no porsche fan, but let the facts speak for themselves.

And your point is? BMW spent Euro 39M more in R$D in 07 over 06.

[155MPH]

Originally Posted by e46e92love

Not to offend anyone but I am glad they are doing this. They should gedt back to selling less cars for more money. Will keep quality up and to be honest, if a 5% price hike pushes a BMW out of someone's reach, they should own one. I don't feel sorry for all the people out there who stretch to afford something they really can't afford. I didn't get my BMW till I could afford it with no stress, and afford to buy it.

Again, its not BMWs fault if you can't afford their cars and its not their job to make them affordable. I will like this new sales strategy and hope this maintains profits so they can maintain quality. Even if this means that certain high-end BMWs I will no longer be able to afford.

Cheers,
e46e92

+1

[Skeptikal12]

It looks to me that the people who wanted to show the world they got money, are upset at the fact that the average joe next door is driving a car from the same company. A price increase for the rich guy only solidifies his image, because the average joe next door won't be driving one (and he can feel special about it).

BMW is in the business of making money first, and making cars second. They will do whatever it takes to accomplish the first, while trying to stick to the second.

BMW produces cars on a large scale, if you want to distinguish yourself there are plenty of better choices.