[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by Run Silent

Well, I'm only 42 - so not too old yet, either. It seems that in general, Ferrari's tend to bottom out at around the 60-80K mark, assuming low miles and nice condition, and then begin to rebound with time. The only exceptions to this are the random 'not a real Ferrari' models that show up. Even these are starting to tick upward (think Mondail).

Right now the two you mentioned have some strong things going for them. The F430 was the last mid-engined Ferrari ever made with a manual, and quite rare at that with only a 10% take rate. The last Ferrari made with a manual, period, was the 599 - 30 were made worldwide with the last one selling recently for $685,000.

The 458 (which I've driven at length and absolutely love but cannot afford) was the last of the Naturally Aspirated V8 mid engines Ferrari - this does, and will likely continue to do so, command a decent premium. This car's value will likely not drop too much further before starting to rise.

Great insight. Yeah not saying you're old either lol, I hope by age 42 to be in a similar position.

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

Great insight. Yeah not saying you're old either lol, I hope by age 42 to be in a similar position.

It's just a mindset, really. I am by no means even remotely close to being considered wealthy, lol.

My wife and I are quite the savers (we don't borrow money. ever.) but through lots of research, the realistic expectation on owning something like a 360 is that it is gonna cost you around $6-8K per year. When you figure that a new Mercedes or BMW will probably cost you more than that in maintenance and depreciation, it doesn't really cost anymore to own the Ferrari. (Especially ones that (a) have mostly totally depreciated and (b) don't require engine out services like some do. Heck, the 430 doesn't even require the 3yr timing belt changes (it uses chains).

The total cost of ownership to have something like a 360 and a cheap daily driver as compared to owning or leasing a new BMW is gonna be about the same.

Just some points to ponder.

[Darth One]

Enough talk just buy the damn thing


(And post pics)

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by Darth One

Enough talk just buy the damn thing


(And post pics)

Next step is a PPI.

I won't tell you what that costs.

[UncleWede]

^ If anyone's interested, PM me

I'm curious why a seller wouldn't have this as a part of standard pre-sale/paperwork preparation? He had all the other records in the glove box.

[2000cs]

Originally Posted by UncleWede

^ If anyone's interested, PM me

I'm curious why a seller wouldn't have this as a part of standard pre-sale/paperwork preparation? He had all the other records in the glove box.

Buyers sometimes don’t trust the seller’s PPI, want it to be more “independent”. Sellers don’t need to pay for it because the buyer will, if the buyer even gets one (some don’t!).

I went down this path (chasing the Ferrari dream) a couple of years ago. The Ferraris I could afford (or rationalize) were behind the cars of today in terms of performance, features and such, but still expensive to own and maintain. I wanted a car I could do distance driving in, on and off the main interstates, so it needed to be reliable or easily serviceable away from home. A GT in the truest sense of the word. After getting close on a couple of Ferraris, watching BringaTrailer daily and frequenting FerrariChat and other sites, I realized my adolescent Ferrari dream made no sense any more. I began looking at Aston Martins mainly for their beauty, but found their cost to maintain and unreliability off-putting (friends who have had them were not encouraging). Ended up just buying a new (then) M5. Economics are different - not necessarily better - but I couldn’t be happier.

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by UncleWede

^ If anyone's interested, PM me

I'm curious why a seller wouldn't have this as a part of standard pre-sale/paperwork preparation? He had all the other records in the glove box.

Honestly? Because 'trust but verify'.

Seriously - you met the seller of the car I'm interested in - would you have just taken his word on a PPI? How do I know that the paperwork is accurate? How do I know that it isn't forged in any way? How do I know that something hasn't occurred since the PPI was completed? Sorry - it's the auditor in me.

Here is what I would be concerned about when coming from a PPI that I didn't have control over: Occurrence, Completeness, Accuracy, Classification, Existence, Rights and Obligations, Valuation and Allocation

Seriously though - main reason? The buyer is going to do it anyway, so why spend another couple thousand dollars to sell your car?

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by UncleWede

^ If anyone's interested, PM me

I'm curious why a seller wouldn't have this as a part of standard pre-sale/paperwork preparation? He had all the other records in the glove box.

Update - moving forward with a PPI after pricing discussions. Also negotiating in a swap for some nice 2004 modular OEM wheels in exchange for the abomination that is currently on the car. Here is a photo with the current wheels on the car now.

[UncleWede]

That photo just triggered something. Did I mention what appeared to be oil on the rim of that rear wheel?

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by UncleWede

That photo just triggered something. Did I mention what appeared to be oil on the rim of that rear wheel?

Hmm - right rear wheel, or left? Was the oil red or was it brown/black? It's common for the F1 reservoir to be overfilled causing a small leak, so that would explain it if it was on the right side and was red.

Shoot me a text if it's easier to talk that way.

[DETRoadster]

Originally Posted by UncleWede

That photo just triggered something. Did I mention what appeared to be oil on the rim of that rear wheel?

"Triggered" as in UncleWede wants the car for himself!

"Oh, did I forget to mention the horrible knocking noise coming from the engine? Oh, and you didnt really need reverse, right? I mean the forward gears seem to work fine...All 3 of them. Also thought it strange the seller wouldn't let me drive it. But I'm sure it's all legit."

[UncleWede]

Driver's side, outside of the wheel. Looked like a bit of oil (slightly dirty, almost damp) had leaked from the hub and pooled a bit on the exterior bottom. I couldn't line it up with anything that seemed to be a source. The rest of the car was clean enough that I wouldn't necessarily chalk it up to lack of cleaning.

And we only needed 3 gears, IIRC, to get to 80+ on the freeway, so not sure any more work. Lift and pull back on this tiny lever, and you're in reverse. I always reverse into parking spots, so that would definitely get used. . .

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by UncleWede

Driver's side, outside of the wheel. Looked like a bit of oil (slightly dirty, almost damp) had leaked from the hub and pooled a bit on the exterior bottom. I couldn't line it up with anything that seemed to be a source. The rest of the car was clean enough that I wouldn't necessarily chalk it up to lack of cleaning.

And we only needed 3 gears, IIRC, to get to 80+ on the freeway, so not sure any more work. Lift and pull back on this tiny lever, and you're in reverse. I always reverse into parking spots, so that would definitely get used. . .

Thanks for the heads up - driver side seems unusual. We shall see after the PPI.

[DETRoadster]

Keep this thread going Run Silent ! I'm living vicariously through you. This is waaaaay more exciting than the minivan my wife and I are currently negotiating on.

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by DETRoadster

Keep this thread going Run Silent ! I'm living vicariously through you. This is waaaaay more exciting than the minivan my wife and I are currently negotiating on.

LOL - thanks man.

My wife told me to put a clause in our pre-nup that I was able to divorce her and keep 100% of everything we own if she ever said that we should buy a minivan.

When we had our daughter and needed a 'family car' - we sold the GTi and the Miata and purchased a VW Passat for her and a BMW E93 for me. Both in a manual transmission. She's never owned an automatic vehicle before. She's a cool kitten.

Our daughter always calls my cars the "Peppa Pig Cars" since they never have a roof.

[DETRoadster]

Originally Posted by Run Silent

LOL - thanks man.

My wife told me to put a clause in our pre-nup that I was able to divorce her and keep 100% of everything we own if she ever said that we should buy a minivan.

When we had our daughter and needed a 'family car' - we sold the GTi and the Miata and purchased a VW Passat for her and a BMW E93 for me. Both in a manual transmission. She's never owned an automatic vehicle before. She's a cool kitten.

Our daughter always calls my cars the "Peppa Pig Cars" since they never have a roof.

She's a keeper for sure!

Ironic, you have kids and are buying a Ferrari. We have no kids and are minivan shopping.

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by DETRoadster

She's a keeper for sure!

Ironic, you have kids and are buying a Ferrari. We have no kids and are minivan shopping.

Why in God's name are you buying a minivan without children????


Of course, the same could be said for why you would buy one even if you had children....but I digress.

[UncleWede]

Originally Posted by DETRoadster

you have kids and are buying a Ferrari. We have no kids and are minivan shopping.

Dogs and cats, living together!


So, I wanted to put out some more to the story, since somebody is being amused.

I arrived about 10 minutes early at the agreed gym. Front parking lot is PACKED, and no Ferrari in sight. I circle around the back of the building and there is a bright red one, with open spaces on either side. I pull the bike into one, and as I'm taking my helmet and jacket off some guy approaches and starts talking me up. He had walked over from a MBZ a few spaces over, so I just ASSumed he was the seller I was to meet. Tells me his life story, how he wanted to be FBI. But he kept turning his mouth to one side or the other, never directly speaking to me. I'm thinking the whole time this guy is a full-on tweaker and this isn't his car to sell.
I never quite got around to "So, this is the car?" when my phone beeps. I look and USS is telling me to keep him apprised of the situation. I then hear "So now I go to my AA meetings" And the head shifting starts to make sense, because I was almost picking up a sweet breath reminiscent of alcohol.
I then text the seller and he says he's just walking out of the gym and will be in back in a few.
The guy then continues on to tell me he's living out of that MBZ.

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by UncleWede

Dogs and cats, living together!


So, I wanted to put out some more to the story, since somebody is being amused.

I arrived about 10 minutes early at the agreed gym. Front parking lot is PACKED, and no Ferrari in sight. I circle around the back of the building and there is a bright red one, with open spaces on either side. I pull the bike into one, and as I'm taking my helmet and jacket off some guy approaches and starts talking me up. He had walked over from a MBZ a few spaces over, so I just ASSumed he was the seller I was to meet. Tells me his life story, how he wanted to be FBI. But he kept turning his mouth to one side or the other, never directly speaking to me. I'm thinking the whole time this guy is a full-on tweaker and this isn't his car to sell.
I never quite got around to "So, this is the car?" when my phone beeps. I look and USS is telling me to keep him apprised of the situation. I then hear "So now I go to my AA meetings" And the head shifting starts to make sense, because I was almost picking up a sweet breath reminiscent of alcohol.
I then text the seller and he says he's just walking out of the gym and will be in back in a few.
The guy then continues on to tell me he's living out of that MBZ.

LMAO!

You never told me this part - that is too funny.

Trials and tribulations......

[irishbimmer]

OP probably knows this but there is a 2003 360 Modena Coupe, Red and Tan with 14,800 miles, priced at $115,885 @ North Hollywood dealer-pretty close to Santa Monica.

Might be worth a look...
Thanks,
Bill

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by irishbimmer

OP probably knows this but there is a 2003 360 Modena Coupe, Red and Tan with 14,800 miles, priced at $115,885 @ North Hollywood dealer-pretty close to Santa Monica.

Might be worth a look...
Thanks,
Bill

Yes - aware of that one, thank you sir!

Only issues with that one are...

1) Hardtop - would prefer spider.
2) Ferrari at a BMW dealer leave me somewhat concerned.
3) That car is overpriced by about the value of a CPO M3. Dear God, man. That is realistically a $75K car.

[irishbimmer]

Yes, thought the price was high...also thought perhaps there might be an impending expensive service at those miles!