[pkancel]

I am BMW thru and thru and have been for years. But every so often I have strayed to Audi, MB and then always come back. I was seriously considering an Alfa, love the aggressive look of the TI with the right wheels. As the guys noted on here, they chose the Alfa because of the exceptional lease until BMW gets a better lease program. I ended up going with the 330i but only because I found a 2800 mile service loaner with the exact options I wanted, no more or less so I got an exceptional price to purchase, plus $3,500 more off just to finance with BMW. Otherwise I may have done a 24 month lease with Alfa too and I have never leased a car. With all of that said though, the dealer told me sales of the G20 are way slower than expected for two reasons. 1. The base model 2018 was a 320i at approx $34,900, the 2019 G20s start at $40,250 so approx $6k more. Less entry level price point so missing some of the previous market. The lease deals also not as attractive so again, missing some of that market also.

[Aaaaaaaaa]

Originally Posted by Antkn33

Yikes

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...bility-update/

Hilariously savage review:

"In a car this prone to failures large and small, shouldn't the warning lights be brighter?"

[minn19]

Originally Posted by BMWModel3

Hilariously savage review:

"In a car this prone to failures large and small, shouldn't the warning lights be brighter?"

Ouch, that sucks. I still hope they get it figured out. I seriously think this car spurred BMW to get off their ass and make the M3/4 better through its lifespan. It’s good to have competition.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by BMWModel3

Hilariously savage review:

"In a car this prone to failures large and small, shouldn't the warning lights be brighter?"

Honestly, for anyone with a couple functioning neurons this should not come as a surprise

We did not need a car and driver long term test to arrive at their conclusion

People need to get their heads examined if they think Alfa will ever make an even remotely reliable car. Are people really that clueless?

It is competition to the M3 in the same way people think the RS5 or C63 is competition: in excel sheets of morons.

Meanwhile, here I am years later waiting for one of these 'competitors' to show up to the track.

[CarlosM4]

I love all the hate on the Giulia. If you go to their forums you will see that the majority of owners are having very few issues. Besides, BMW's day of reliability is long gone.

Not forgiving Alfa though, but I wouldn't shit on the car like you guys are.

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by CarlosM4

I love all the hate on the Giulia. If you go to their forums you will see that the majority of owners are having very few issues. Besides, BMW's day of reliability is long gone.

Not forgiving Alfa though, but I wouldn't shit on the car like you guys are.

Yep - I've always been a huge Alfa fan, and an Italian car fan in general. I know many who own current Guilia's and the general consensus is that the standard models are quite reliable - it is the QF that seems to have the bulk of the issues.

Not saying the Alfa is an Italian Camry, it's not and does have more "ahem" uh character than typical Japanese econo-boxes, but it isn't nearly as problematic as many say. Reminds me of the IMS bearing issue on the 996/986 Porsche. An issue to be sure, but not the doom and gloom you hear about on the forums.

[Savageenterprise]

When I was shopping for my new car, I cross shopped the Guilia. I was really considering it as an option so I decided to join an Alfa forum and check out a bunch of threads for a month or so. People were celebrating "I'm 2k miles problem free" etc. LOL.

Like is that a joke? If I spend 50k+ on a car it better problem free for a solid amount of time. It seemed like at Alfa a "problem free" car was the exception. I even stopped 3 separate people on the road because I'm like, Forums tend to breed the problem bringers and negativity...all 3 people said their car was in the shop for multiple weeks and that the car was great while it was on the road but they probably wouldn't re-buy or re-lease. I was disappointed to hear that.

[wdb]

Originally Posted by Antkn33

Yikes

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...bility-update/

[Alfisti]

Still would get one if I drove sedans (i don't do sedans, I drive wagons or verts). NFI why it's so stupidly unreliable, i could accept it on my 1969 Giulia but not my 2019.

I wonder if they get on top of it? GM's new Saab 9-3 in 2003 was an abomination, just horrible reliability. By 2006 though, pretty damn solid, not Camry solid but better than most euro marques.

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Still would get one if I drove sedans (i don't do sedans, I drive wagons or verts). NFI why it's so stupidly unreliable, i could accept it on my 1969 Giulia but not my 2019.

I wonder if they get on top of it? GM's new Saab 9-3 in 2003 was an abomination, just horrible reliability. By 2006 though, pretty damn solid, not Camry solid but better than most euro marques.

My father was a director of service for Alfa, Fiat, and Lancia in the USA back in the 1970's through 1990's. At one time, they sent him to Italy to see if he could find any rationale as to the poor quality issues that plagued the brands. The story isn't fit for public forum, but hit me up if you want to hear it. It was entertaining, but not very enlightening, as it just solidified what was already expected.

[jcm3]

I went from a 15 F80 to the Giulia QV and so far no issues. Most of them were software driven with the 17s and early 18s but seemed to be remedied with the latest software fixes. Main reason i switched (other than the great driving experience) is that a new alfa dealership opened relatively close to me for the added reassurance.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Honestly, for anyone with a couple functioning neurons this should not come as a surprise

We did not need a car and driver long term test to arrive at their conclusion

People need to get their heads examined if they think Alfa will ever make an even remotely reliable car. Are people really that clueless?

It is competition to the M3 in the same way people think the RS5 or C63 is competition: in excel sheets of morons.

Meanwhile, here I am years later waiting for one of these 'competitors' to show up to the track.

I disagree about the competition part. I think the AR was the M3/4s only competition. Hardly any longtime BMW owners were going the jump ship for the ATS V because GM. The RS5 is AWD etc and the C63 is straight line go fast luxury. The Quad was the only one that did what the M3 does and better in a lot of ways.

Unfortunately as you so eloquently said they effed up the reliability part. They also don't have the CS support down well either with the long wait times for parts and not enough techs in certain regions to service them. They still might make it, but they got a long uphill climb to pull it off.

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by Savageenterprise

When I was shopping for my new car, I cross shopped the Guilia. I was really considering it as an option so I decided to join an Alfa forum and check out a bunch of threads for a month or so. People were celebrating "I'm 2k miles problem free" etc. LOL.

Like is that a joke? If I spend 50k+ on a car it better problem free for a solid amount of time. It seemed like at Alfa a "problem free" car was the exception. I even stopped 3 separate people on the road because I'm like, Forums tend to breed the problem bringers and negativity...all 3 people said their car was in the shop for multiple weeks and that the car was great while it was on the road but they probably wouldn't re-buy or re-lease. I was disappointed to hear that.

I have 2 mates with Alfas (Giulia and Stelvio) in USA and very few issues on both accounts. There were software bugs (the throttle actuator sensor failure happened to my buddy), but that was it. Mainly the mechanics has been solid.

[dgoldenz]

lol @ people on a BMW message board complaining about quality and reliability. I've had 5 BMWs and every single one of them has had major problems. Evaporator units, throttle actuators, rod bearings, oil leaks, gaskets, etc. My M3 has had two blown engines in less than 60k miles from rod bearings, once while totally stock at 25k miles. My evaporator unit on my last M3 lasted 30k miles. The pot seems to be calling the kettle black here...

Sucks though because I really like the Stelvio QV

[GenXer]

I traded my Alfa Giulia AWD in after 5K miles and owning it for 8 months and lost about $8200. Traded value was $35K. Two months later, after the Giulia won car of the year, I looked up the trade in value on my car and it plummeted to $25K.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

lol @ people on a BMW message board complaining about quality and reliability. I've had 5 BMWs and every single one of them has had major problems. Evaporator units, throttle actuators, rod bearings, oil leaks, gaskets, etc. My M3 has had two blown engines in less than 60k miles from rod bearings, once while totally stock at 25k miles. My evaporator unit on my last M3 lasted 30k miles. The pot seems to be calling the kettle black here...

Sucks though because I really like the Stelvio QV

Which generation M3 are you referring to? For the E9x and F8x they have been extremely reliable overall. Sounds like you had some bad luck.

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

Which generation M3 are you referring to? For the E9x and F8x they have been extremely reliable overall. Sounds like you had some bad luck.

Both E92's. They have been the extreme opposite of reliable for me, along with my X3, 335i, and 335d. All of them have been garbage. Will never own another BMW out of warranty again, tired of this crap. I find it hard to believe that anyone can think a car which can grenade the engine at any random time can be considered reliable.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

Both E92's. They have been the extreme opposite of reliable for me, along with my X3, 335i, and 335d. All of them have been garbage. Will never own another BMW out of warranty again, tired of this crap. I find it hard to believe that anyone can think a car which can grenade the engine at any random time can be considered reliable.

Sorry to hear that, I would probably be sour on the brand as well with your experience. Knock on wood but none of the bimmers I have owned have given me any major problems.

[aftercompletion]

Pepperidge farm remembers...

https://www.motortrend.com/news/alfa...r-of-the-year/

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...-10-best-cars/

[530iDriver]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

Paying for a Quadrifoglio, but driving a Chrysler 300 in between repeated visits to the dealer. That is a truly scary thought.

Nah, they are just making sure to keep you as part of the "Famiglia"!

[530iDriver]

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

Both E92's. They have been the extreme opposite of reliable for me, along with my X3, 335i, and 335d. All of them have been garbage. Will never own another BMW out of warranty again, tired of this crap. I find it hard to believe that anyone can think a car which can grenade the engine at any random time can be considered reliable.

Sorry to hear that. That however was not my experience with a 2011 E90 328i owned for 7 years and extremely reliable. My 2017 G30 530i has been rock solid so far.

[yco]

Giulia is the start of a new generation Alfa's.. things may get better but generally Italian cars are not for their reliability and never will be i guess.. they ll sound good and look good.. after spending more than a year with Italian culture, its obvious that they have different mindset than Germans and it wont change probably at all.. and actually Italian design roots has connection with Germans also when you dig a bit the last 100 years of history..