[c1pher]

Originally Posted by tennisfreak

Cayman in base spec is stripped of way too many things considering the price you pay for it, and the options on it are laughably overpriced.

Mid engined or not, I'd choose a M2C any day over the Cayman. Perfectly trackable and much more practical.

While I agree Porsche does nickle and dime you for options even worse than BMW, you buy what you want. Some people buy Porsches as a track car so all those options add weight. Which is why Porsche now offers a 911 T and I believe will offer a Cayman T. The cost is high for options and I've even complained about it before. But in reality, what was kind of said above is true. There is no sports car at that price range that allows you to spec it out exactly how you want. With other brands if you want a nice stereo, you have to buy the tech package which is bundled with a bunch of other stuff for example. On the Porsche if you want a nicer stereo you select just that. If you just want power seat and nothing else, that's possible too.

What I do appreciate about the Porsche that I didn't realize if the fit and finish. I am surprised that the convertible when the top is up is as quiet as a regular car. Panel gaps are nice and tight. Ergonomics are great and finding the right seating position was easy. With the top down, there is no buffeting. I do have a wind screen behind me, but my Corvette with the top off does have buffeting in certain situations.

With all that said, I don't think I would buy a Porsche new, but as a CPO or used like I did. Which is also what I did with the 135is. The sticker on the 135is was almost $51k in 2013.....kind of pricy I think. It is fully loaded though, less the parking sensors.

[Crimson92]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Comparing a 3,000-pound, two-seat, mid-engine sports car with proprietary engines and not one -- not two -- but three liquid cooling systems to a near 4,000-pound, four-seat, front-engined mid-size coupe that shares umpteen dozen drivetrain parts with other BMWs just demonstrates how little you realize what you're actually paying for.

Enjoy your M4. I couldn't be caught dead in a car that bloated.

Dude breathe.

Stop defending this car so hard. I love Porsche too , I own one for a reason, but this car has its faults.

And yes this car has bad lag under 3k RPM

I don't have an issue with the engine but lag is lag.

Although I can't fault a little four cylinder that boosts to 20psi.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Crimson92

Dude breathe.

Stop defending this car so hard. I love Porsche too , I own one for a reason, but this car has its faults.

And yes this car has bad lag under 3k RPM

I don't have an issue with the engine but lag is lag.

Although I can't fault a little four cylinder that boosts to 20psi.

My 228i had the same kind of 'lag'. Just don't call it turbo lag. It's not.

It's ECU lag. It's a function of your drive mode. 'Normal' is programmed to be 'soft' for those who can't modulate throttle well, among many other reasons. To get sharper response, you need to be in 'Sport' or better.

Understand that with these kind of engines -- turbos with high and flat torque curves low in the power band (and that includes the M240i and M2, BTW) -- many buyers who aren't enthusiasts simply don't know (and often don't care to want to know) how to modulate the throttle properly. A quick stab at 5mph in first or second gear will send the unwary straight into whatever is in front of them.

Imagine someone in three-inch heels trying to modulate a throttle in a 230i or M240i set to Sport Plus mode. Think that's far-fetched? I guarantee you more owners of those cars wear heels regularly than don't -- and don't really care what the cars are capable of performance-wise.

This is why 'Normal' mode exists. This is why 'lag' is programmed into that mode. Period.

If you rode motorcycles and understood the massive differences in throttle modulation between an inline-4 literbike (think GSX-R) and a V-twin literbike (think Ducati), you'd understand what I'm talking about. The effect is even more pronounced in torque-tuned turbo engines like the 718 has. Am I going to defend that against the uneducated who pigeonhole that as 'turbo lag'? You're damn right I am.

[baege]

sorry but there is a such thing as turbo lag
ecu lag also exists but a turbo adds additional lag to that ecu lag

the good news is that you get used to it
as a former turbo lag hater i have come to only mildly dislike it on my m240i

[tennisfreak]

Originally Posted by MGM135is

While I agree Porsche does nickle and dime you for options even worse than BMW, you buy what you want. Some people buy Porsches as a track car so all those options add weight. Which is why Porsche now offers a 911 T and I believe will offer a Cayman T. The cost is high for options and I've even complained about it before. But in reality, what was kind of said above is true. There is no sports car at that price range that allows you to spec it out exactly how you want. With other brands if you want a nice stereo, you have to buy the tech package which is bundled with a bunch of other stuff for example. On the Porsche if you want a nicer stereo you select just that. If you just want power seat and nothing else, that's possible too.

What I do appreciate about the Porsche that I didn't realize if the fit and finish. I am surprised that the convertible when the top is up is as quiet as a regular car. Panel gaps are nice and tight. Ergonomics are great and finding the right seating position was easy. With the top down, there is no buffeting. I do have a wind screen behind me, but my Corvette with the top off does have buffeting in certain situations.

With all that said, I don't think I would buy a Porsche new, but as a CPO or used like I did. Which is also what I did with the 135is. The sticker on the 135is was almost $51k in 2013.....kind of pricy I think. It is fully loaded though, less the parking sensors.

You are right about cpo. I love the Cayman and a few years ago I was buying one used when it was sold it from underneath me.
It's a great car, I just can't justify the price of one new.

[RABAUKE]

You'll never go wrong with Porsche

[hwntime]

What was the daily rental on this, $120~ish?

[RotorOver]

Originally Posted by hwntime

What was the daily rental on this, $120~ish?

It varies by the specific car (i.e. each Cayman was priced differently), but this one was $140/day plus a $14 trip fee. That includes a 100 mile limit then it's supposed $2 and change per mile. I did about 120 miles and they only charged me the base rate.

[c1pher]

That’s honestly not bad if you want to try out an expensive car before you buy it. A test drive doesn’t really let you experience a car the way you would use it and this is an affordable way to help determine if it performs the way you want or fits into your lifestyle.

[Never_Enough]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

because so many Miata owners have stepped up to a Boxster that the Miata is called the gateway drug to a Porsche among Porschephiles.

I've never seen this as a thing over on the Miata forum. *I* would never ditch a Miata for a Boxster. A higher end model Porsche? Perhaps.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Never_Enough

I've never seen this as a thing over on the Miata forum. *I* would never ditch a Miata for a Boxster. A higher end model Porsche? Perhaps.

Whatevs. I'd trust the word of at least three longtime auto journalists I know, as well as several 718Forum.com members who, you know, did just that (go from a Miata to a Boxster) over anything I read here anyway.

Carry on, my wayward son. There'll be peace when you are done.

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by Never_Enough

I've never seen this as a thing over on the Miata forum. *I* would never ditch a Miata for a Boxster. A higher end model Porsche? Perhaps.

I have been a member and poster at Miata.net for many years, and have had a Miata in the garage for nearly 2 decades. I've seen your posts on occasion over there.

I agree - I have seen an occasional person jump from a Miata to a Boxster, but don't feel it is a common occurrence. If they do, it is usually from an NA or NB to an early 986, where costs are similar.

[hwntime]

Originally Posted by RotorOver

It varies by the specific car (i.e. each Cayman was priced differently), but this one was $140/day plus a $14 trip fee. That includes a 100 mile limit then it's supposed $2 and change per mile. I did about 120 miles and they only charged me the base rate.

Did you opt for Turo insurance coverage or does your own insurance cover everything?

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by usshelena725

I have been a member and poster at Miata.net for many years, and have had a Miata in the garage for nearly 2 decades. I've seen your posts on occasion over there.

I agree - I have seen an occasional person jump from a Miata to a Boxster, but don't feel it is a common occurrence. If they do, it is usually from an NA or NB to an early 986, where costs are similar.

That's great. YMMV. All I'm doing is reporting back what I've learned from multiple credible sources over the years. If you guys are digging that deep to find fault with stuff I'm posting, I'm doing it right.

Thanks.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

That's great. YMMV. All I'm doing is reporting back what I've learned from multiple credible sources over the years. If you guys are digging that deep to find fault with stuff I'm posting, I'm doing it right.

Thanks.

Your pom poms are certainly getting a workout. It's a good car, enjoy it. But so are the six cylinder ones (I'd personally much rather a Spyder or GT4 than any 911 or 718, but I have a small child, so that's right out.)

I'd probably rock an ND Miata over a Boxster or Boxster S. The Miata is just a great car and the level of track support is pretty impressive too. Plus I kind of prefer having access to the motor without a lift.

I think by now we all know you like your 718. But folks can also not like it. You're on a BMW forum, trashing the M4 might not be as easy as it is on the P Car forums. People put money on their decisions and while you and I can think it's a heavy, large, weird sounding thing, I can also think at the same time that 718's sound almost as weird and no where near as great as a Champion 4.0L GT3 motored Cayman.

I chose to buy (two) GTI's over anything BMW is currently making. And while I sometimes talk it up, I'm cool with everyone thinking it's a dorky teenagers car too and it most certainly sounds less appealing than most of the BMWs I've owned. And as a bonus, you and I have the same headlight switch.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

I think by now we all know you like your 718. But folks can also not like it ...

All great points. Forgive me if I feel a need to defend the car against stereotypes that, in most cases, are unfounded or that stem from ignorance, either purposeful or undetected. As a de facto ambassador for the 718, I simply feel that it's part of my role.

Originally Posted by Red Bread

I chose to buy (two) GTI's over anything BMW is currently making ... and as a bonus, you and I have the same headlight switch.

That we do. We do not, however, share any drivetrain parts. That's an important point when talking about how expensive a Porsche can be today when compared to, say, an M4 that starts at $65k.

[Red Bread]

Wait, you don't have a weak clutch that needs to be replaced even with stock power?!

[RotorOver]

Originally Posted by MGM135is

That’s honestly not bad if you want to try out an expensive car before you buy it. A test drive doesn’t really let you experience a car the way you would use it and this is an affordable way to help determine if it performs the way you want or fits into your lifestyle.

Exactly what I thought and I would highly recommend it. I was able to run that car through it’s paces on some awesome roads and thoroughly enjoyed it. Luso actually offered a good variety of some cool cars.

[RotorOver]

Originally Posted by hwntime

Did you opt for Turo insurance coverage or does your own insurance cover everything?

They don’t require taking their insurance, I just used my own.

[bvanlieu]

Originally Posted by usshelena725

I have been a member and poster at Miata.net for many years, and have had a Miata in the garage for nearly 2 decades. I've seen your posts on occasion over there.

I agree - I have seen an occasional person jump from a Miata to a Boxster, but don't feel it is a common occurrence. If they do, it is usually from an NA or NB to an early 986, where costs are similar.

Its not rampant no but its certainly been a discussion point from time to time.

If you end up loving a miata, then wanting a bit more, it becomes more of a discussion item. You will spend lesson a good miata + FM2 setup but its then just a different car, not a miata, not a P car, but something quite capable.

The tough decision to me is: a new 30K ND vs a used 987, they are about the same cost but very different cars.

I appreciate the miata for what it is, and drove my 92 for 150+k. I'd likely still choose the 987 as its just delightful to drive (I have a base cayman, don't need a lot of power to have fun). Miata wins in the wrenching department of course, I did about everything to that car, the things I have done to the P car sometimes take 3x longer


- b

[10"]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Comparing a 3,000-pound, two-seat, mid-engine sports car with proprietary engines and not one -- not two -- but three liquid cooling systems to a near 4,000-pound, four-seat, front-engined mid-size coupe that shares umpteen dozen drivetrain parts with other BMWs just demonstrates how little you realize what you're actually paying for.

Enjoy your M4. I couldn't be caught dead in a car that bloated.

the M4 is 3500-3600lbs. 718 is 3000. Unlike the 718 the M4 is actually practical...and you can transport people.

I would never want to buy a 4 banger Porsche. I'm sure others will agree that is a total waste of money...to buy a Porsche and not get one of the best things about it; a sweet, singing 6. It's like buying a decaf coffee; triple filtered to remove the kick. A product of clever advertising and product placement.

[Red Bread]

I'm not a fan of front engine, I4 Porsches, but saying that people don't respect flat four Porsches seems a little silly. Some one has paid seven figures for one.
[IMG]https://www.sportscarmarket.com/wp-c...00-front-2.jpg[/IMG]

Of course I'd also have a Dino over all but a few V12 Ferraris and only one V8.