[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Naz24

How is this news? China has been producing their own BMW X5 for years!!

On stamped steel wheels.



For export: #Fail

[Naz24]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

On stamped steel wheels.

For export: #Fail

It was tongue and cheek. That car i posted was a blatant copy by a Chinese manufacturer. Bmw actually lost the court case against them

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Naz24

It was tongue and cheek. That car i posted was a blatant copy by a Chinese manufacturer. Bmw actually lost the court case against them

Yep. Added a to that to reflect the measure.

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by Naz24

It was tongue and cheek. That car i posted was a blatant copy by a Chinese manufacturer. Bmw actually lost the court case against them

You won't win a "court" case in China against China. It's a complete and utter joke.

China has always copied the west for everything despite hating "western" influence. I hate China for a reason. Their entire philosophy is backwards. It has been like this and always will be until their old generation dies off.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Arcades

You won't win a "court" case in China against China. It's a complete and utter joke.

China has always copied the west for everything despite hating "western" influence. I hate China for a reason. Their entire philosophy is backwards. It has been like this and always will be until their old generation dies off.

Actually, that's not true: It will be like that for generations to come because the concept of 'intellectual property' and protecting original ideas and designs is foreign to its cultural beliefs. The Chinese language doesn't even have a word close to that meaning in it. This is a mindset formed over thousands of years. It ain't gonna change (relatively) overnight.

To most Indochinese (this includes most of China and much of the Indochinese peninsula, including Vietnam, Burma, and Laos), copying something designed and made somewhere else is a societal norm. It's the same reason why most dynastic Chinese art is unsigned -- and if it is signed, it chiefly reflects the person who commissioned it, not the person who created it.

But really, I digress since I'm having to defend the ignorance of others (I don't mean that in a bad way. Really.) There's just no current compelling reason to favor a PRC-made vehicle -- not even cost.

[ecaedus]

Meh. Talk to the service people and mechanics working on these cars and they'll tell you most of the components in your car are already made in China. Or go to an OEM part number search website and look for yourself. It's just a matter of who assembles it. Personally I don't think it matters if its a Mexican or a South African or a Chinese putting the car together, to them it's a very specific and repetitive few steps will little skills involved.

[R3dliner]

I work in the automotive industry and I have to say not all parts coming out of china is garbage. Some of the simple stuff, they do make it well. It's when it comes to complex circuits and can-bus stuff they can't do it properly. They certainly can't reverse engineer and work around patents.

[Matski]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Actually, that's not true: It will be like that for generations to come because the concept of 'intellectual property' and protecting original ideas and designs is foreign to its cultural beliefs. The Chinese language doesn't even have a word close to that meaning in it. This is a mindset formed over thousands of years. It ain't gonna change (relatively) overnight.

To most Indochinese (this includes most of China and much of the Indochinese peninsula, including Vietnam, Burma, and Laos), copying something designed and made somewhere else is a societal norm. It's the same reason why most dynastic Chinese art is unsigned -- and if it is signed, it chiefly reflects the person who commissioned it, not the person who created it.

But really, I digress since I'm having to defend the ignorance of others (I don't mean that in a bad way. Really.) There's just no current compelling reason to favor a PRC-made vehicle -- not even cost.

Interesting..

Do you think the west would respect IP if it wasn't backed up by the law?

Bollocks would they. It's why the IP industry exists.

It's the attorney's that stop you getting ripped off, not cultural norms.

[R3dliner]

Originally Posted by ecaedus

Meh. Talk to the service people and mechanics working on these cars and they'll tell you most of the components in your car are already made in China. Or go to an OEM part number search website and look for yourself. It's just a matter of who assembles it. Personally I don't think it matters if its a Mexican or a South African or a Chinese putting the car together, to them it's a very specific and repetitive few steps will little skills involved.

Not true. With the exception of VW/audi, bmw and Mbenz still uses European tier 1 suppliers.


Most mechanics these days use aftermarket parts which majority do come from china.

[IS3andME]

Originally Posted by Laki021

No no and no, please, no China-built BMWs in Europe!

And watch you looking at that Volvo S60, ahem BMW 1 series, and saying "You know it does kinda look good. Maybe..."

[fbsm]

Chinese built BMW reminds me of the "Autobahn Edition" VW GTI that is "Made in Mexico"

Would I buy one?

Not bloody likely to even look at one unless the price were in the same ball park as hyundai

IIRC those chinese made Volvo's are also experiencing major engine issues consistent with lots of "Chineseium" products

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

can i buy one on ebay for 99cents including shipping

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by fbsm

Chinese built BMW reminds me of the "Autobahn Edition" VW GTI that is "Made in Mexico"

Would I buy one?

Not bloody likely to even look at one unless the price were in the same ball park as hyundai

IIRC those chinese made Volvo's are also experiencing major engine issues consistent with lots of "Chineseium" products

Volvo died a long time ago.

Never again would I buy another one.

[dmboone25]

This will be interesting to watch - perhaps BMW will only sell the Chinese-made vehicles in the APAC region, at least to begin with (and to assist with their growth strategy in that part of the world).

This is one of those circumstances where perception = reality (especially if the products are actually less reliable than their Western counterparts).

One of the main attractions (for me) to a German car maker is the attention to detail and overall craftsmanship of the thing. Have you shut the door of a Kia, and then a German car? There's a noticeable difference...that's the kind of thing that will take a long time to overcome.

I can't imagine buying a car built in China...

[IS3andME]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

This will be interesting to watch - perhaps BMW will only sell the Chinese-made vehicles in the APAC region, at least to begin with (and to assist with their growth strategy in that part of the world).

This is one of those circumstances where perception = reality (especially if the products are actually less reliable than their Western counterparts).

One of the main attractions (for me) to a German car maker is the attention to detail and overall craftsmanship of the thing. Have you shut the door of a Kia, and then a German car? There's a noticeable difference...that's the kind of thing that will take a long time to overcome.

I can't imagine buying a car built in China...

That Kia probably is more reliable than said "German car", unless it's a Porsche. Now is that "attention to detail" and "craftsmanship"?

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by IS3andME

That Kia probably is more reliable than said "German car", unless it's a Porsche. Now is that "attention to detail" and "craftsmanship"?

I should have been more clear - I wasn't saying anything negative about the Kia, just that there are certain areas where say a BMW or Porsche (I've had both) would feel more solid and well made.

Is that the case in reality? Perhaps not - but that's why I mentioned that perception is reality. For example, I have a friend who calls their Kia "the coke can" because it doesn't feel as solid in those subjective ways.

Does that make sense? I was just trying to draw a comparison on the perception aspect of the build quality and whatnot.

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by ah3nyc

My South African 340 rattles like a horse carriage. Waiting for the Chinese version; disposable cars.

That's surprising since Rosslyn is one of the most highest rated plants for zero defects in the production network. That is why they won the X3.

[AFA]

The number of proud racists on this threat is really telling and very sad.

Racist openly discuss how they won't buy Chinese products!

I am guessing most are Americans that have succumbed to the Trump effect.

Their fathers probably were just as adamant and proud not to buy things made by blacks.

Why not wait for the cars and see how the quality is before making decisions and remarks. I have had 4 Volvos over the years and Chinese one is just as good as the ones made in Sweden if not better.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Dude, you're not reading what I wrote. There is no precedent for high-quality heavy manufactured goods from China in any major Western market. Why? The quality is not up to Western standards.

No?
A customer of mine, who is one of the world leaders on large scale hydraulics (I'm not talking about hydraulics on an excavator, but 60 meter long rams on $5 billion oil drillin ships etc; very very expensive equipment, they are from origin a dutch company (parental holding is german since a decade or 2 I think).
Guess where they also have production plants...
China, India...
If you dont think large high quality stuff is made in china, you've not been there
Thing is, all design, quality control, expertise is controlled by westerners.
They make stuff all over the world because those drilling ships (and other products) are also build in those parts.
Shipbuilding is rapidly moving from south korea to china.
2 of the largest shipyard/manufactureres are chinese ones. There are 2 japanese ones in the top 10 and the rest is south korean.
NONE is US based. NONE is european based.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Chinese BMW I don't know what's worse that or a Mexican BMW. It's a perception thing and right or wrong the perception is products coming from certain countries are of lesser quality. I'm sure I'll get flamed but I wouldn't buy an "American" BMW either. If the wifey and I can't do Euro Delivery then it's a no go.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Matski

Interesting..

Do you think the west would respect IP if it wasn't backed up by the law?

Bollocks would they. It's why the IP industry exists.

It's the attorney's that stop you getting ripped off, not cultural norms.

Because attorneys are a Western convention. And so is IP.

I understand that it's not easy for anyone foreign to the Indochinese mindset to understand it. And I'm not defending it. I'm expressing and acknowledging that it exists, and that it's the basis for a large chunk of the trouble Western industry and commerce has with such issues as trade imbalance, patent law, and product standards in parts of Asia. Not just China.

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Actually, that's not true: It will be like that for generations to come because the concept of 'intellectual property' and protecting original ideas and designs is foreign to its cultural beliefs. The Chinese language doesn't even have a word close to that meaning in it. This is a mindset formed over thousands of years. It ain't gonna change (relatively) overnight.

To most Indochinese (this includes most of China and much of the Indochinese peninsula, including Vietnam, Burma, and Laos), copying something designed and made somewhere else is a societal norm. It's the same reason why most dynastic Chinese art is unsigned -- and if it is signed, it chiefly reflects the person who commissioned it, not the person who created it.

But really, I digress since I'm having to defend the ignorance of others (I don't mean that in a bad way. Really.) There's just no current compelling reason to favor a PRC-made vehicle -- not even cost.

That doesn't ignore the fact that China has blatantly copied multiple Western cars including Jaguar and other cars.

Don't get me wrong. This is usually the leader's problem not a citizen problem. I hate the Chinese government.

I'm also Taiwanese so I hate the Chinese government and their bullshit in general. I have a reason to hate China.