[doccyber]

Originally Posted by Kyle B

That's an understatement.

the i3 didn't sell well because it's f'ing hideous, it's too expensive, and it's f'ing hideous. Did I mention it's hideous? Whoever signed off on that design should be taken out back and flogged.

Yes the i3 is hideous. As matter of fact most electric and hybrid cars are just plain ugly. Look at the new redesigned Prius. Horrible design and it's the one most people drive. Crazy but it sells.

[-c-]

Originally Posted by doccyber

Yes the i3 is hideous. As matter of fact most electric and hybrid cars are just plain ugly. Look at the new redesigned Prius. Horrible design and it's the one most people drive. Crazy but it sells.

Dude gotta be honest !

The new Prius makes the i3 look like design of the year!

It's got one of the ugliest asses in recent history!

[Diver]

I drove an i3 as a loaner for two days. It was underwhelming in performance. The lightweight materials creaked and rattled. It looks like a shrunken minivan, not a car. If this is all we can buy in 10 years, the current gas and diesel powered cars will be Cubanized to last forever.

[-c-]

Originally Posted by Diver

I drove an i3 as a loaner for two days. It was underwhelming in performance. The lightweight materials creaked and rattled. It looks like a shrunken minivan, not a car. If this is all we can buy in 10 years, the current gas and diesel powered cars will be Cubanized to last forever.

Must have been a bad build, or something, the one I had had over 20k miles and was rock solid, also due to the light weight materials it was quick to throw into turns and felt great,
was also pretty quick, that was coming from a 135is however not an M car, guess it's just where your coming from.

[SeanWRT]

General consensus: there must be something wrong with head of the people who buy i3 where I live, it's stupid car in every aspect.

[-c-]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

General consensus: there must be something wrong with head of the people who buy i3 where I live, it's stupid car in every aspect.

Lol

So ignorant you make my head hurt.

[ron_jeremy]

Well, let me give some balance about the i3 and other EV.
I'm from Norway, and in general, our politicians have a "green" view.
This have lead to a very EV friendly enviroment ;-)
Basicly a i3 cost nothing in taxes, and you have specified parking, with (usualy) free charging.
No toll on paid roads, free transport (with boats). Very little road tax and the list goes on. An Tesla cost about the same as a F10 528i, more or less. And the hybrids also are more or less tax free. So If the politics are "on board", EV makes a lot of sense. The i3 over here are viewed as a very futuristic car, with the Carbon cabin and it's design. It's actually the number one selling BMW model as of now as well.

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by Diver

I drove an i3 as a loaner for two days. It was underwhelming in performance. The lightweight materials creaked and rattled. It looks like a shrunken minivan, not a car. If this is all we can buy in 10 years, the current gas and diesel powered cars will be Cubanized to last forever.

Please give me the address of the dealer so I can refer our investigations department to investigate this vehicle As the i3 certainly does not creak and rattle, at least in Germany.

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by bclemans

I hope BMW gets its act together.

Germany's recent mandate of all NEW cars to be emission free by 2030,
so everyone and his dog in Germany is getting ready to push out electric cars.
As a result, Audi/Porsche (VW) and Mercedes are pledging more electric cars release (and sooner too) than BMW.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...-official-says

Seems like they are buying time (or kidding themselves) by releasing more hybrids by the day.

Apple said they are "brave" to ditch the headphone jack on the iPhone 7. Likewise, BMW has to be "brave" to ditch the hybrid strategy for the i-brand NOW and go all electric.

BMW also have to run catchup (together with every other car manufacturer) on autonomous driving too.

Mandate set. Stop wasting time with hybrids, hydrogen and diesel.

Sorry but the upcoming Mercedes-Benz and Audi models are also hybrids.

[3s-a-charm]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

without those ridiculous tax credits they would have been dead and buried.

Germany is doing the same. Tax credits for everyone drinking the "green energy" kool aid

What tax credits? Source? They took a loan which they paid back with interest. The EV incentives are relatively minor compared to the price of the vehicle. The fact that these cars are much more expensive than other luxury sedans yet people chose the Tesla over other luxury brands should say something. Plus the Model 3 gets 400k pre-orders when other vehicles are available now. Times are changing for the better and the mission of Tesla resounds with many people as trying to make the world a better place. It's a remarkable company but there will always be negative people who try to stop progress.

[3s-a-charm]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

IMO the problem is that it's a city-car so it was designed with the idea that it would spend little time travelling over 100km/hr. Aerodynamics take a back seat vs utility (I. e. London Cabs) This type of car doesn't work well in the US because many people who live in our cities aren't any more likely to have a car and we believe in 1+ hour commutes.

There's also a concern about repeat business. Electric motors don't wear out. I

No worries about repeat business. With Tesla, the car is pretty bullet proof (low maintenance although not without some challenges) but the tech evolves so quickly it drives people who want the latest technology to upgrade every few years. It's like a giant iPhone (for better or worse) - there are enough people willing to buy an iPhone 7 even though it is barely better than a 6/6s.

[3s-a-charm]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

General consensus: there must be something wrong with head of the people who buy i3 where I live, it's stupid car in every aspect.

The i3 was a surprisingly pleasant car to drive and is my first choice vehicle outside the Tesla but BMW won't sell me one here nor service it. They make it painfully difficult to own an i3 outside of a core market. Even Tesla acknowledges the lack of service in an area and sends Ranger Service to you to support the car. If BMW offered anything like that we would have had an i3 in addition to our Tesla. I have a friend in Edmonton who bought a second hand i3 and if it needs service it's a $1,200 (his cost) flatbed to Vancouver which is the closest service Centre. The Edmonton BMW shop won't touch it.

Also I should add that the local BMW stores actually discourage EV sales because they don't get a commission on those sales. BMW Canada claims there is no market for EVs here so they don't sell/service them. It's classic chicken/egg syndrome. If there was no EV market why was there a lineup of over 100 people at the mall waiting to order a full electric Tesla that they hadn't even seen a conceptual sketch for? There is a rapidly growing demand for 100% EVs that have range for daily commutes and also demand for EVs that can successfully accomplish road trips.

Give us a compelling design (aka "normal looking car/SAV") and sales/service people who can support it and BMW could become a leader in the next gen of auto sales.

[Erie Von Otto]

The i3 is not a good looking car, period. The i8 costs $100k+. Lackluster sales? Yes, they forgot their target demographic on this one. It was like they intentionally made both cars bad in one aspect or another.

BMW, I would love a great electric from you. Make a 3er hatch or wagon. Make a 5er sedan. Something that is BMW Beautiful, modern, and accessible to a larger audience. If you build it, they will come.

[antzcrashing]

Originally Posted by ron_jeremy

Well, let me give some balance about the i3 and other EV.
I'm from Norway, and in general, our politicians have a "green" view.
This have lead to a very EV friendly enviroment ;-)
Basicly a i3 cost nothing in taxes, and you have specified parking, with (usualy) free charging.
No toll on paid roads, free transport (with boats). Very little road tax and the list goes on. An Tesla cost about the same as a F10 528i, more or less. And the hybrids also are more or less tax free. So If the politics are "on board", EV makes a lot of sense. The i3 over here are viewed as a very futuristic car, with the Carbon cabin and it's design. It's actually the number one selling BMW model as of now as well.

That sounds awful. Do people not gripe about the taxes they are paying for other people to buy heavily subsidized electrics? What good has come from your country's green initiatives?

[-c-]

Originally Posted by antzcrashing

That sounds awful. Do people not gripe about the taxes they are paying for other people to buy heavily subsidized electrics? What good has come from your country's green initiatives?

I'm not shocked that most Bmw drivers hate the i3 because it doesn't look like a BMW style wise and it doesn't work proportion wise to what normal BMW drivers gravitate to, I two see it as very futuristic and its like driving a concept car,

Funny thing is I get more people wanting to talk to me about the car than any of my past vehicles, whether you hate it or love it, it gets attention.

But everyone should get a grip, whether you love it or hate the design it at the end of the day is subjective, the car has won many world design awards for both its looks and engineering. The Azteck hasn't. You also can't say that it's not composed of some very very cool teck and materials. At its core theirs lots their that make it very ambitious but it was dead on arrival for having low mileage. Even though most Americans don't drive 80 miles on their daily drive people want their 200 or 300 mile range, so when the i3 gets that range I bet the sales will be different.

Funny thing is the i3 in used form has been selling great as you can get a 2014 with 15k miles for under 20k. But the mileage is its biggest black eye.

I will say that in the two years I've had it, I've never taken it to the dealer for any issue, which this will be the first BMW that I have owned that I can say that for, and I've had 9 BMW's

So tip of the hat to BMW for having the guts and making a cool off the wall design that uses state of the art materials at a reasonable price.
Here's to the future!

It wasn't to long ago when BMW left Germanic styling for their controversial flame styling where Chris bangle was getting death threats, everyone hated it as well but they found their stride, the i3 and i8 will find theirs at some point.

[FogCityM3]

Further evidence of the incompetence at BMW who can't seem to get the performance core (///M division, save for the M2) nor emerging technologies right and are beaten by the competition. Significant management turnover in both divisions the ///M and i are a problem and shareholders and the Board should agitate for a complete management overhaul at the very top ranks.

The i-division cars so far have been fine, but that team is gone and now management is left scrambling in the wake of Tesla on how to move forward. The bad decisions of the past 5-7 years are starting to bite them back. The likes of Porsche, Audi, and Mercedes will likely move forward just fine.

[SeanWRT]

Originally Posted by -c-

Lol

So ignorant you make my head hurt.

Sir, the fact is I've never seen a single i3 in the wild though dealers here are making offers like "buy a 7er, take an i3 for free". It's easily the most hideous thing coming out from BMW ever. Yes, we have different angles when defining beauty, would you appreciate just that?

[ron_jeremy]

Originally Posted by antzcrashing

That sounds awful. Do people not gripe about the taxes they are paying for other people to buy heavily subsidized electrics? What good has come from your country's green initiatives?

Our clima means that in the winter our biggest cities (yes they are pretty small actually) encountered bad air/pollution - due to the cold.
The politicians wanted a certain % of EV cars on the market to change this path.
Due to this, they encouraged the citizens with benefits with buying and driving EV.
Because of this, i belive Norway stood for about 20-30% of the total Tesla sales a few years.
Since then they have plummeted, because model X is late, and now with model 3, they´re operating with very optimistic releases and production numbers.
Leaf and E-Golf, together with i3 are leading the way, and since the 90Ah i3 came, the waiting list have grown. Because of the i3, BMW are among top 5 manufactures in sales in Norway. It´s not all bad then i guess.
And the ones that have gotten them, are very happy with it, besides it cost less than a 116d here.
And for that, your driving virtually free, since the power here are very cheap, and clean.
So the "green" way of thinking are kinda working in Norway - surely the benefits are being removed by time, but by then, the air are better and the goal are achieved.

About the i3, it´s actually not being sold by every BMW shop, they need to be certified, and it demands certain standards.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by 3s-a-charm

What tax credits? Source? They took a loan which they paid back with interest. The EV incentives are relatively minor compared to the price of the vehicle. The fact that these cars are much more expensive than other luxury sedans yet people chose the Tesla over other luxury brands should say something. Plus the Model 3 gets 400k pre-orders when other vehicles are available now. Times are changing for the better and the mission of Tesla resounds with many people as trying to make the world a better place. It's a remarkable company but there will always be negative people who try to stop progress.

In the US federal tax credits of up to $7,500 are available. Some credits enabled EV owners to essentially own their car for free. There are other credits available as well (IE Tolls).

https://pluginamerica.org/why-go-plu...al-incentives/

A majority of T3 owners will probably lose out on the credits due to the volume restrictions if Tesla meets their commitment and stops bailing out family businesses (SolarCity).

Tesla has done some interesting things but they sure a hell aren't the second coming of Jesus. Theres no getting away from the laws of economics

[conradb]

lol so many butthurt BMW fanbois ripping on Tesla for "not making a dime."

Amazon didn't make a dime until just recently.

[Fundguy1]

I hope the board throws out the chairman with the ev big up his ass and they get back to fcousin on building real cars. Who knows, if they put these resources back to making the bread and butter cars better, they may actually become dominant in their classes again instead of lost in the mix.

[krautmeister]

There's many reasons Tesla has beaten BMW with the Model 3.

Design being one with BMWs "i" division probably pushing the envelope with design. Those guys tend to want to "set" the trend, not align to it. BMW core is more reserved as that is their bread and butter.

Culture being a big reason in the US. Millennial consumers and pop-culture has given more credence to Tesla and its roots in Silicon Valley. The new generation is less brand loyal and more willing to be early adopters... Even at times intentionally going against the "institution". I'm afraid the vestige of the 80s and 90s BMW "elitism" is lost with the younger consumer.

Electric is the future but as I've stated before... I'll never give up petrol (completely) even if an electric has better performance on paper. It will not have the jois de vivre in a engine revving up and snapping gears.