[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by BimmerMat135

What about a raised up chassis that is now lowered for handling I guess that is the clever way to do. X3M might sell more than the F81 but the bases of the project are wrong. So it is going to be a challenge to get it as sporty as the F81. Mercedes have the E63 wagon it might not be their best seller but at least they have it why can't bmw take any risks pleasing long term buyers?

In an ideal dream world an X3M or any other SUV M variant would cease to exist. But I see them on the roads and if there's the demand for them, they'll build them.

At least I can judge the people who drive them.

[MahiC]

They need to make another z4 M tbh. It has been long overdue

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by MahiC

They need to make another z4 M tbh. It has been long overdue

They need new Z-Cars first !

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by Brigand

Audi do pretty well with their RS4 Avant (450 bhp) and RS6 Avant (560 bhp)

http://www.audi.co.uk/new-cars/a6/rs6-avant.html

Mercedes do well with their C63 Estate (476 bhp 510 bhp)

http://www2.mercedes-benz.co.uk/cont...mg_estate.html

3 series and 5 series Tourers sell well and both the 330d and 335d do well.

With the 335d the quickest 3 series.

So yeah, they are missing a trick.

Even if they turned the MSport trim into a similar way Audi have with the S compared to RS models.

Guess it's the differing tastes. I've always ragged on Audi for not offering an RS4 sedan and selling it in the US (you can't buy an RS4 in the US).

Neither diesel variant sells particularly well in the US. I do see more 35d diesels in SUV trim. The only diesel you can get in a 3 Series is a 328d in the US.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by MahiC

They need to make another z4 M tbh. It has been long overdue

I think the Z4 is the red headed step child in BMW's line up. They hardly pay any attention to it.

Can't say I blame them, the entire luxury roadster segment is dying. People just can't justify paying those expensive prices for such a small and impractical car anymore.

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

Guess it's the differing tastes. I've always ragged on Audi for not offering an RS4 sedan and selling it in the US (you can't buy an RS4 in the US).

Neither diesel variant sells particularly well in the US. I do see more 35d diesels in SUV trim. The only diesel you can get in a 3 Series is a 328d in the US.

Different markets, however while in China this year I noticed a fair few big engine Estates.

It's hard to say no to the C63 AMG Estate.


An RS4 is one of options to replace my current car.

For info, 2017 should see new RS4 Sedan and Wagon being sold over there, mainly I believe as they want them in China as well.

[Diver]

Buy a bag of m&m's. Lots of m's and a sugar fix too. M2 is going to be interesting.

[gbelton]

M2 - a perfect storm finally arrives.

[infamousq]

All this doesn't matter if they don't plan on going higher then 600hp anymore. an with how hard it is to crack the ECU I can see their cars losing out to Caddy, Merc, Audi, Ford, an Dodge.......

[W///]

Originally Posted by BimmerMat135

The X3M might not be that huge seller and will probably cost more in R & D. As for jaguar they are able to bring new cars with manual have a sporty line up and a suv at the same time. Even Lotus is thinking about suv these day. BMW use to have a sporty line up but it is slowly fading away. Plus If you look at the roots of M/// they weren't there for sales numbers.

While I'd love to see an F81 (would definitely be a dream car of mine), that's just not true. The X3M would outsell the F81 by a HUGE margin. Look at how many more F25 BMW sell compared to the F31. Not to mention the success the X5/6M's have had. The only people that want performance wagons are the folks in Germany and guys like you and I. It's a VERY niche market.

On a somewhat related note, I've had a chance to drive the new F85 a couple of times, and it's very very impressive. I know that's sacrilegious to say, but I'm just being honest

Originally Posted by MahiC

They need to make another z4 M tbh. It has been long overdue

Unfortunately, that car is long dead. Even the last Z4M was hardly a sales hit. Now with the Z4 moving so far upmarket, I just don't see who would buy these. Even base N55 Z4 start at $56k. I'd imagine a Z4M starting at $70k, which is far too much IMHO.

[Manbnda]

About watering down the M cars (in terms of perception/status), I think the problem is not about the M badges, I think it is on the car itself. An M car should be recognizable as a superior car from the design standpoint. Yes an M3 looks different from a 335i, but I think just not enough for the taste of people who complain about the M badges. No one is going to think a red Pontiac Solstice is a Ferrari, just because the owner places Ferrari badges all over the car.

I think the problem is that the M car is not as different as many people think it should be from the standard model.

And by the way, I think 335i and 435i don't look enough different from their x20i brothers, and the price difference is huge. So thats also a problem too, I think.

From my point of view Audi handles this situation better than BMW and Mercedes.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

I guess you haven't seen a C450 AMG Sport...





Same goes for F-Sport (Lexus) and V-Sport (Cadillac). All they're doing is leveraging the brand equity in their respective performance arms and creating what's, really, just a sport package. Don't know why that's such a bad thing. I guess it makes sensitive people feel insecure because they bought an actual M, AMG, etc. and for whatever reason, want everyone to know it.

I would add that Audi is even more "diluted" where they have S-Line trims, S-models and top line RS-models.

[YungDro]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

I guess you haven't seen a C450 AMG Sport...





Same goes for F-Sport (Lexus) and V-Sport (Cadillac). All they're doing is leveraging the brand equity in their respective performance arms and creating what's, really, just a sport package. Don't know why that's such a bad thing. I guess it makes sensitive people feel insecure because they bought an actual M, AMG, etc. and for whatever reason, want everyone to know it.

looks the same

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by Manbnda

About watering down the M cars (in terms of perception/status), I think the problem is not about the M badges, I think it is on the car itself. An M car should be recognizable as a superior car from the design standpoint. Yes an M3 looks different from a 335i, but I think just not enough for the taste of people who complain about the M badges. No one is going to think a red Pontiac Solstice is a Ferrari, just because the owner places Ferrari badges all over the car.

I think the problem is that the M car is not as different as many people think it should be from the standard model.

And by the way, I think 335i and 435i don't look enough different from their x20i brothers, and the price difference is huge. So thats also a problem too, I think.

From my point of view Audi handles this situation better than BMW and Mercedes.

I own an F30 M-Sport and whenever I see a new F80 or F82...which is virtually daily, the car looks like it wants to kill someone. I think they look night and day from an M-Sport.

[YungDro]

Originally Posted by FilipMPower

Exactly, but the current M6 should be more track focused, the 650i should be the GT which the M6 is.

i think the next gen 6er will have that target

[YungDro]

Alpina B7 is basically the M7..

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by Brigand

Audi do pretty well with their RS4 Avant (450 bhp) and RS6 Avant (560 bhp)

http://www.audi.co.uk/new-cars/a6/rs6-avant.html

Mercedes do well with their C63 Estate (476 bhp 510 bhp)

http://www2.mercedes-benz.co.uk/cont...mg_estate.html

3 series and 5 series Tourers sell well and both the 330d and 335d do well.

With the 335d the quickest 3 series.

So yeah, they are missing a trick.

Even if they turned the MSport trim into a similar way Audi have with the S compared to RS models.

Seriously!

Could not believe how many RS wagons I saw on the Autobahns cruising at ridiculous speeds.

[Roundown]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

In an ideal dream world an X3M or any other SUV M variant would cease to exist. But I see them on the roads and if there's the demand for them, they'll build them.

At least I can judge the people who drive them.

Why is that? I own a 1M, have owned an E92 and E46 M3s (all 6MT- if you're counting enthusiast cred) and would much like to add an X3M to my stable.

What would you be judging me for? Not hauling my family around in a RAV4?

Im general, I don't really care what BMW sells, as long as they spend some of the earnings on R&D and create more CAFE headroom for M cars.

[PatrikG]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

An F81...they would literally sell tens of those.

Wagons are only popular on places like Jalopnik where everyone circle jerks to how great they are but would, in reality, never actually buy one.

Well, the M3 sedan and M4 would obviously sell better than any wagon but still, there is a market. I would rather see the M5 as a wagon than the M3 though to compete with the RS6 and E63 which you see surprisingly often in this part of the world.

[BMWAELBILAL]

Come on BMW please do a M3 touring and M7 and especially the BMW M7

[bernpep]

Originally Posted by BimmerMat135

M3 Touring is a no go and X3M is a go? Seem like Jaguar will give me more interesting options in the future. Tired of the ultimate share holder pleasing machine. I heard that bmw is considering a M235i active tourer. Really it is time to move on.

Yes, in fact it's way past that time. We only make 1 thing..... wrong!
We make a billion f'ing models, but still no real sportscar.
Msport this BMW!

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by cSurf

Why is that? I own a 1M, have owned an E92 and E46 M3s (all 6MT- if you're counting enthusiast cred) and would much like to add an X3M to my stable.

What would you be judging me for? Not hauling my family around in a RAV4?

I don't care what BMW sells, as long as they spend some of the earnings on R&D and create more CAFE headroom for M cars.

They just seem silly to me. I wouldn't actually be judging you that was more in jest. I've just never understood the wide range appeal of high performance SUV's.

I'm sure if I drove one I'd change my mind.

But like I said, there's obviously people who want them. I see them fairly often.