[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by Patrick719

Ok, how about the 2nd or 3rd time he's empty? At that point it wasn't "fight or flight" it was "fight or wait your turn". It had to be obvious that he wasn't going to stop.

And it's unfortunate that no one else was armed. They could have potentially minimized the damage. I always have my handgun with me unless I'm going somewhere that doesn't allow it.

You realize it doesn't take long to reload a semi-auto handgun right?

Now I get what you're saying, if you're given the absolute option of fighting and maybe dying or do nothing and definitely dying then resisting is the dominant strategy but those aren't the only two options. Notice "only" 9 people were killed.

Coupled with the fact that when you're terrified and caught off guard, you probably don't have the wherewithal to cautiously take cover, get close enough to quickly counter, and wait for him to reload. Plus given the area, it may have been wide open enough so that it would be very difficult to get close enough without making yourself a wide open target.

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by C5driver

Ironically, some of the most socially responsible acts (where legal) would be to get professional training with a recognized school, being armed (always), and living in condition yellow.

Originally Posted by fecurtis

You realize it doesn't take long to reload a semi-auto handgun right?

Now I get what you're saying, if you're given the absolute option of fighting and maybe dying or do nothing and definitely dying then resisting is the dominant strategy but those aren't the only two options. Notice "only" 9 people were killed.

Coupled with the fact that when you're terrified and caught off guard, you probably don't have the wherewithal to cautiously take cover, get close enough to quickly counter, and wait for him to reload. Plus given the area, it may have been wide open enough so that it would be very difficult to get close enough without making yourself a wide open target.

Everyone's best defensive weapon is situational awareness.

But every situation is different. The one commonality is that most of these people make many mistakes when perpetrating these cowardly acts. And if you've at least thought about the situation happening and asked yourself what you'd do, formulate a mental plan of sorts, you'll be far better equipped to act, what ever that act may be. If you're not in a position to offer direct resistance, the best thing you can do is evacuate the premises and help people along the way who are having difficulties. If you're close enough to take action, that action may save lives.

And you're correct, life isn't the movies. Which means you don't have to be an ex Marine force-recon / Navy SEAL / Air Force Para-rescuemen / Green Beret to neutralize a threat. I think police statistics have shown that once any opposition is felt by the cowardly gunman, the shooting incident usually ends right then.

[MiddleAgedAl]

Originally Posted by C5driver

...and parent's are in part, responsible.

From CNN: "A senior law enforcement source told CNN the suspect's father had recently bought him a .45-caliber gun for his 21st birthday in April."

Happy Fathers day, buddy.

[C5driver]

Originally Posted by MiddleAgedAl

From CNN: "A senior law enforcement source told CNN the suspect's father had recently bought him a .45-caliber gun for his 21st birthday in April."

Happy Fathers day, buddy.

Imagine living with that shit for the rest of your life? Assuming he cares....

[Delta0311]

Originally Posted by C5driver

Imagine living with that shit for the rest of your life? Assuming he cares....

Judging by the kids haircut alone I can tell that this is a family that gives 0 fucks.

[P1]

Originally Posted by Patrick719

Ok, how about the 2nd or 3rd time he's empty? At that point it wasn't "fight or flight" it was "fight or wait your turn". It had to be obvious that he wasn't going to stop.

And it's unfortunate that no one else was armed. They could have potentially minimized the damage. I always have my handgun with me unless I'm going somewhere that doesn't allow it.

People often attend church with family. If I was at church and this happened, I'd lay on top of my family in order to protect them. I wouldn't start running (anywhere) and leave them alone.

[MiddleAgedAl]

Originally Posted by C5driver

Imagine living with that shit for the rest of your life? Assuming he cares....

While that purchase may have been the last parenting mistake he made, I'd bet it was hardly the first, especially if his kid got the point where he felt that all black people "have to go". Just watch, the dad will claim he had no idea the kid felt that way.

[C5driver]

Originally Posted by P1et

If I was at church and this happened, I'd lay on top of my family in order to protect them.

I'd give Opie a few reasons why it's a bad idea to try and shoot people...

[Delta0311]

Originally Posted by P1et

People often attend church with family. If I was at church and this happened, I'd lay on top of my family in order to protect them. I wouldn't start running (anywhere) and leave them alone.

Your heart is in the right place but it's hard to say how your family would react. Your going from peaceful/uneventful to full blown chaos in a split second. It is hard for the mind to grasp that and everyone reacts differently. For all you know by the time you turn to your family they might be already in full B line sprint for an exit. Unless you rehearsed and practiced the scenario it would be very hard to say how your family would react. Hence this is why the military constantly holds drills and training exercises. This is done in order to develop muscle memory so you react instinctively to chaotic situations.

[MrPrena]

First, it is a tragedy. One of the worst place for crazies to commit a crime.

Some trained person under stress can speed reload within workspace at around <2.5 second. I agree that it was truly unfortunate that no one was armed to defend against this mad man.

I agree with MrTonka. I do pack at church as well. but last thing I want to do is wear a plate carrier + carry a PDW to place of worship.
Some sheepie think people excessively train are nutjobs. It is not true. Some are just getting trained and shaping them to prepare the crazy stuff which is happening at a place that it should not.

When I was in elementary and middle school, I absolutely hated the fire drills. Now, we do firedrills at home+retrain how to use the fire extinguisher. When fire did happen, people tend to lose majority of motor skills.

Who knows? we are just speculating. Tackling the bad guy during reload is brave and common sense. However, what if other scenario bad guy had a BUG and can transition faster than the reload?

Originally Posted by Patrick719

Ok, how about the 2nd or 3rd time he's empty? At that point it wasn't "fight or flight" it was "fight or wait your turn". It had to be obvious that he wasn't going to stop.

And it's unfortunate that no one else was armed. They could have potentially minimized the damage. I always have my handgun with me unless I'm going somewhere that doesn't allow it.

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

Kids are all kinds of messed up these days. Our society has dealt them difficult hands and i'm glad i didn't grow up and later than i did.


People still ask why I carry in church. Because hate knows no bounds.

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

To your point, most people who are doing this haven't necessary trained for it. They may have gone to the shooting range, they may be proficient with a weapon, but chances are they have never carried out any killings prior to their snapping point. They also can be so intently focused on their evil plan that they may be affected by tunnel vision while in the act. Because of these things coupled with the likelihood of these people having a cowardly character, a direct action against them tends to end the ordeal.

Originally Posted by fecurtis

You realize it doesn't take long to reload a semi-auto handgun right?

Now I get what you're saying, if you're given the absolute option of fighting and maybe dying or do nothing and definitely dying then resisting is the dominant strategy but those aren't the only two options. Notice "only" 9 people were killed.

Coupled with the fact that when you're terrified and caught off guard, you probably don't have the wherewithal to cautiously take cover, get close enough to quickly counter, and wait for him to reload. Plus given the area, it may have been wide open enough so that it would be very difficult to get close enough without making yourself a wide open target.

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

Everyone's best defensive weapon is situational awareness.

But every situation is different. The one commonality is that most of these people make many mistakes when perpetrating these cowardly acts. And if you've at least thought about the situation happening and asked yourself what you'd do, formulate a mental plan of sorts, you'll be far better equipped to act, what ever that act may be. If you're not in a position to offer direct resistance, the best thing you can do is evacuate the premises and help people along the way who are having difficulties. If you're close enough to take action, that action may save lives.

And you're correct, life isn't the movies. Which means you don't have to be an ex Marine force-recon / Navy SEAL / Air Force Para-rescuemen / Green Beret to neutralize a threat. I think police statistics have shown that once any opposition is felt by the cowardly gunman, the shooting incident usually ends right then.

[C5driver]

Originally Posted by MrPrena

However, what if other scenario bad guy had a BUG and can transition faster than the reload?

Might be a good thing to practice your reloads (safely) tonight

Might be safe to assume these nutjobs aren't going to be trained, let alone have a BUG.

[Whostheboss]

Originally Posted by TXSTYLE

This is the infuriating horseshit that I can't stand here!!! I am confident that if we inacted "public torture and execution" for heinous and violent crimes such as this, a vast majority would cease! Your thoughts?

The BS Judicial system.

I don't think it will cease completely. It will still go on but at a much lesser rate. However, i'm still in favor of your idea.

[MrPrena]

Most likely. I am just speculating it can happen. who knows. Statistically from recent crazy incidents, Holmes and Cho was ones that I can remember who had secondary.

Most likey not tonight. I have wrists and fingers all inflammated.
BTW, if I may ask, Are you a calgu_ member as well? Looks like you are from CA.

Originally Posted by C5driver

Might be a good thing to practice your reloads (safely) tonight

Might be safe to assume these nutjobs aren't going to be trained, let alone have a BUG.

[smyles]

Originally Posted by MiddleAgedAl

From CNN: "A senior law enforcement source told CNN the suspect's father had recently bought him a .45-caliber gun for his 21st birthday in April."

Happy Fathers day, buddy.

I'd be cautious with what CNN - or any other media - reports the first few hours... or even days. Remember "hands up don't shoot"?

[C5driver]

Originally Posted by MrPrena

Statistically from recent crazy incidents, Holmes and Cho was ones that I can remember who had secondary.

Yes...and so did Dorner.

Originally Posted by MrPrena

BTW, if I may ask, Are you a calgu_ member as well?

Nope.

[pikkagtr]

No death penalty ,
Killing someone as punishment for murder is stupid
It's wrong to murder so we gona murder you to prove our point......
He should get life in a 6x6 box with no windows and 22 hour lockdown with zero access to any human contact
Feed him with a tray lowered by a robot into his cell and his doors open to a hallway for showers and a small recreation yard.
He can think about his actions for the next 50+ yrs

[kprocivic]

Originally Posted by pikkagtr

No death penalty ,
Killing someone as punishment for murder is stupid
It's wrong to murder so we gona murder you to prove our point......
He should get life in a 6x6 box with no windows and 22 hour lockdown with zero access to any human contact
Feed him with a tray lowered by a robot into his cell and his doors open to a hallway for showers and a small recreation yard.
He can think about his actions for the next 50+ yrs

i'm not paying for that shit. kill this feller asap.

[Jaymax85]

Originally Posted by P1et

Terrorist is the wrong word here, as I doubt he had political aims. I think "deranged racist gunman" is more appropriate.

are u F'ing serious? This shitbag is a terrorist, he terrorized and killed people right? or is that just because he's white he isnt a terrorist?

[MiddleAgedAl]

Originally Posted by pikkagtr

No death penalty ,
Killing someone as punishment for murder is stupid
It's wrong to murder so we gona murder you to prove our point......
He should get life in a 6x6 box with no windows and 22 hour lockdown with zero access to any human contact
Feed him with a tray lowered by a robot into his cell and his doors open to a hallway for showers and a small recreation yard.
He can think about his actions for the next 50+ yrs

Yeah, that punishes him, but it still doesnt really benefit society. Taxpayers are footing the bill for those trays of food for the next 50+ years.

Nothing can bring those innocent people back, and frankly I dont believe that killing a killer provides a deterrent to those who planned to take themselves out at the end of their mass rampage either. However, that doesn't mean that some good cant come out of removing these people from society.

I'd rather see these folks used for scientific testing. Don't harm helpless animals when testing cosmetics or household cleaners, use these people. You'll get much better data.

Crash test dummies: they have come a long way, but still not as good as a real live person... strap the guy up with a million sensors, disable the airbag, and ram that sled into a wall at 60mph. The relevant data from that can be used to make changes that save countless lives going forward, in ways that even the most advanced crash test dummy cannot properly simulate.

[MrPrena]

^ yes, he would be perfect for Immunology/Virology depeartment or CDC/NIH BSL4 area.

[Needbmwpartzz]

Study the every corner of this guys mind and life,one day science can prevent crazy of this magnitude.
I believe this guy is a reflection of society and reality in the worst way as every behaviour he has displayed was learned,who knows why he did what he did but the best thing is to try and understand and try to prevent this from happening again......although I doubt that will be anytime soon.

[P1]

Originally Posted by jawwadh

are u F'ing serious? This shitbag is a terrorist, he terrorized and killed people right? or is that just because he's white he isnt a terrorist?

No need for rudeness. If it was a black guy who walked into a church and killed nine white people I wouldn't call him a terrorist either.