[mose121]

I would be ok with them offering both rwd and awd ///M cars. AWD system would be electronically controlled anyways so the torque split could be infinitely adjustable to transfer 100% of the power to either axle. Not that you'd ever want to go Fwd biased but the car would be capable of it. And at least those folks who live way out in the sticks where rwd alone won't cut it could enjoy the ///M experience.

[M2 dude]

Oh yaaa

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by RingMeister01

I see these as positive statements by the new boss. The fact is that we (car consumers) are horsepower and 0-60 whores and there is no way to increase performance without controlling traction.

K bye

^^^ All this.

Do not be afraid of change or future progression peeps,

[Revcrazy]

Originally Posted by FilipMPower

I don't like to say it, but Porsche is a benchmark no one will ever reach. While Audi RS, BMW M and AMG fight, the Porsche is a league above, simply one reason is that rear engine. There is no real reason to buy an M4, instead of a Carrera S. The carrera is swift, more balanced, NA engine, etc...
But its the character of the cars, which with the M4 in this is case is a mad brute, sliding around and having a really strong front engine-RWD layout.
You can go ahead and buy a Porsche, it is a level above anything else, the benchmark. I won't, everyone has one and they don't look nearly as aggressive.

This. Spot on 110%.

Porsche was above everyone else with the 997 and all the 997 was was basically a slightly changed 996 platform.
The 991 is just so far ahead and even though they've been out for many years now everyone is still scratching their heads trying to come up with a car that can match it. The new GT3 is absolutely incredible and seeing as the RS will get a new bespoke engine it's going to be more of a world beater than the bare GT3.

[SilentAttack]

Guess I'm just gonna badge my 328 daily with an M logo and call it a day

[aajami]

SCOTT26, when are we going to get more news about the upcoming Z5M?

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by ChesterM2

^^^ All this.

Do not be afraid of change or future progression peeps,

What how is it positive . An M car has always been about providing sportiness and class leading dynamics in a luxury coupe or sedan . It's never been about making the most power and being fastest , it's been about the driving experience . This has produced some cars that were pretty damn fast for their time but that's not what made them special . This is horrible news . At least he thinks an M6 should be sporty lol. The crazy thing is he's all excited about racing the M6 , the brands 4200 pound GT car ,why not use the M4 ????? WTF

[Diver]

Don't read too much into it.

[MKParris]

Originally Posted by turbo8765

I agree with this.

It took years to build the M reputation... and they're going to burn it up in a few short years.

I miss the the BMW of a few years ago... lost and gone forever.

Your second statement should have been obvious when they started that nonsense Joy marketing campaign around 2009.

The M was dead...they just still happened to be making the E90 E92 M3.

This crap the guy is spewing now is just - how can we make people pay more for an "M" car that is luxurious and has tech goodies that seems sporty - so people will pay more.

WTF ever happened to lets build "M" cars for people who want to drive the epitome of a driver's car. They were still very profitable - they just werent stealing Audi/MB market share.

[modkrazy]

Originally Posted by solstice

"It is not possible to make all M cars sporty and dynamic"

Scary, then why the heck does the M performance line exist if not to allow M cars to be just that, sporty and dynamic and still cover the comfy,fast and M looks segement? Answer M want to build cars for posers that have to own an M even if they don't want a car that drives like an M. Not good.

Quoted for emphasis. And then there are various tiers of poser depending on what you can afford, is it M sport, M performance, or do you want to pose with the big boys with the three little lines ///

[AtlantaDude]

Originally Posted by RingMeister01

I see these as positive statements by the new boss. The fact is that we (car consumers) are horsepower and 0-60 whores and there is no way to increase performance without controlling traction. The only way to advance against the competition is to go AWD. It's just the result of our own desire. Look at Porsche, they dropped the GT2 for this very reason and the 918 is awd as well, due to traction issues. Companies will not be liable for irresponsible people attempting to be a racer boy and kill themselves (and others) in a car that requires a brain to modulate. Welcome to reality. The boss is trying to implement what we all love about M the best he can within the new formula.

Now, BMW like Porsche should offer us more choices. From the base Carrera to the GT3 there needs to be something for everyone. Especially its "hardcore" guys. We are the most loyal and dedicated of all owners. We'll pay MSRP, get a new model every year and a BMW for our wife and kids. It's essential in the brands history and image.

K bye

+100

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by FilipMPower

I don't like to say it, but Porsche is a benchmark no one will ever reach. While Audi RS, BMW M and AMG fight, the Porsche is a league above, simply one reason is that rear engine. There is no real reason to buy an M4, instead of a Carrera S. The carrera is swift, more balanced, NA engine, etc...

You're making the assumption BMW and/or Audi are trying to build a Porsche - I don't think they are. A 911 isn't an M4 and vise-versa, they're totally different products with totally different price points. Maybe the R8, but I think that's a different product too.

Mercedes-AMG is trying with the GT, sure, but not BMW or Audi. Also, and I'm no engineering expert, but I think Porsche is successful in spite of a rear engine, not because of it.

but tomato tomahto

[sdshah]

Looks like it's time for me to go to the A EM GEEEEE

[Racer20]

How many "real" sports cars have BMW EVER had? The M1, Z8, maybe you could say the Z3M and Z4M, but you guys act as if Ferrari is going 100% FWD. BMW has ALWAYS been about making class leading sports sedans that come very close to performing as well as a true sports car. How is that ANY different from today? The market has changed over the past 30 years, and BMW has changed with it and managed to stay at or near the top. It's true that not every M car has to be razor sharp and agile. As long as the M2/M3/M4 are on that end of the scale, whats wrong with having a bigger more luxurious option in the M5 and X5M?

Get a grip!

[dclowd9901]

Originally Posted by X3paul

bar the up coming M2 (maybe) in these days if you want a proper sports car its either porsche or used BM. I went for both. Got myself a new macan as a daily driver and used Z4m coup. Dont get me wrong I love the M5 and the M3 and the new X6/X5 M look the part but they are not sports cars. You get as much involvent and connection to an M car these days as you get with an X box. Sorry to all owners but its true. I would rather have 2nd E46 M3 CSL or V10 M6 than any modern machinery despite all there flaws - as a proper sports car of course. With that said none of those machines would come close to the new M3 as an allrounder. Its brilliant for a daily driver. But I wouldnt call the F M3 a sports car. More a very very fast sedan. And I have driven all of the cars mentioned above except the M6 V10 drove the M5

As an F80 owner, I find the m3 positively dull as a DD. I don't know what you're on about but the car only comes alive at around .85 lateral Gs, 90 mph, or 0-60 as fast as you can.

[solstice]

I like my F80. It's sublimely balanced with a stonking engine. Zipping around town is a blast and it can eat miles like nothing, always eager to please. However today there was a space gray E90 M3 maneuvering around in the garage at work, man did I miss mine ( jerez black E90 M3 ). The E9X M3 is truly special and not only due to the spectacular S65, the whole car ozes mechanical perfection and dense solid engineering. It's at least on par with the 997 bar the GT3 versions in desirability IMO.

The F80 is clinical and artificial in comparison, no way around it. At the same time it's such a fun car and a lot roomier for a family like mine. I do miss the mechanical feel of earlier generations but I think it's lost for good and it's time to adapt, we have no choice. Well I hope to get into a NA CPO 991 C2S as a last hurrah but we'll see how that goes. Still a few years left enjoying the F80 for what it is.

[turbo8765]

Originally Posted by solstice

I like my F80. It's sublimely balanced with a stonking engine. Zipping around town is a blast and it can eat miles like nothing, always eager to please. However today there was a space gray E90 M3 maneuvering around in the garage at work, man did I miss mine ( jerez black E90 M3 ). The E9X M3 is truly special and not only due to the spectacular S65, the whole car ozes mechanical perfection and dense solid engineering. It's at least on par with the 997 bar the GT3 versions in desirability IMO.

The F80 is clinical and artificial in comparison, no way around it. At the same time it's such a fun car and a lot roomier for a family like mine. I do miss the mechanical feel of earlier generations but I think it's lost for good and it's time to adapt, we have no choice. Well I hope to get into a NA CPO 991 C2S as a last hurrah but we'll see how that goes. Still a few years left enjoying the F80 for what it is.

Your post encapsulates the problem.

Even those (who are honest) who own and are happy with an F8x appreciate that the e9x M was special in a way the F8x will never be.

I think BMW have realized that if you make it fast in a straight line you can sell a car for more money with less content to many more buyers. They're now appealing to the less discriminating masses.

Increased intermodel parts sharing normally reduces cost, somehow the opposite happened in this case. Shareholders win.

The M mantra used to be that the chassis had to be faster than the engine... now they build nicely appointed and stylish supercharged mustangs.

[IS3andME]

Originally Posted by DCG

At least Fraciscus van Meel seams to be open-minded with regards to new innovative technologies at BMW M's disposal, combining and working with new concepts for improving driving dynamics. van Meel is jumping right in the deep-end, lets see what they can come up with.

"If we are talking about M I think we’re talking about rear-wheel drive with added traction."

WANTED: An AWD "Rear-Biased" M4 Competition Package & X4M please! And for the girlfriend she will take an AWD "Rear-Biased" M3.

And for the guys that want a M with AWD "Rear-Biased" that can always be an 'option' and so can the RWD as well. I will √ tick the M AWD "Rear-Biased" option!

The better option RWD and optional AWD "rear biased" versions sold together.
Which flavor do you want. Like a Carrera S and Carrera 4S.

[N & M]

BMW and M by extension are working on something beyond the projects he discussed. The Toyota joint sports car program underpinning the next Z series.

The real purpose of hiring Fedeli which I cannot imagine being confined to the i project. Perhaps they will want to capatialize on Ferrari know-how in engineering lighter 4WD solutions such as in the FF or nicer sounding exhaust notes and performance delivery such as in the new Turbo California.

The messages we have received about the clear distinction that will be engineered into the next gen 6' vis a vis the 5' in weight reduction and chassis.

Something is brewing for the future and I am cautiously optimistic.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Racer20

How many "real" sports cars have BMW EVER had? The M1, Z8, maybe you could say the Z3M and Z4M, but you guys act as if Ferrari is going 100% FWD. BMW has ALWAYS been about making class leading sports sedans that come very close to performing as well as a true sports car. How is that ANY different from today? The market has changed over the past 30 years, and BMW has changed with it and managed to stay at or near the top. It's true that not every M car has to be razor sharp and agile. As long as the M2/M3/M4 are on that end of the scale, whats wrong with having a bigger more luxurious option in the M5 and X5M?

Get a grip!

[Roundown]

Originally Posted by solstice

I like my F80. It's sublimely balanced with a stonking engine. Zipping around town is a blast and it can eat miles like nothing, always eager to please. However today there was a space gray E90 M3 maneuvering around in the garage at work, man did I miss mine ( jerez black E90 M3 ). The E9X M3 is truly special and not only due to the spectacular S65, the whole car ozes mechanical perfection and dense solid engineering. It's at least on par with the 997 bar the GT3 versions in desirability IMO.

The F80 is clinical and artificial in comparison, no way around it. At the same time it's such a fun car and a lot roomier for a family like mine. I do miss the mechanical feel of earlier generations but I think it's lost for good and it's time to adapt, we have no choice. Well I hope to get into a NA CPO 991 C2S as a last hurrah but we'll see how that goes. Still a few years left enjoying the F80 for what it is.

My feelings exactly.

[EzequielR]