[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

Actually F80 M3 ED invoice is $54k since the ED invoice is 7% below US invoice and US invoice is 7% below US MSRP so 62000/(1.07 x 1.07) = 54k and M4 is 56k

You are correct, my mistake. $58k was the ED invoice for my order with dct, hk, enhanced bluetooth and rear sunshades options.

I looked at my notebook too quickly!

My original point was that it is personal preference that drives the F80 cost to $75k+

[ixse]

Also for those who give a shit about cheaper cars, focus rs is coming to the states this yr in limited number.. 330hp 2.3liter awd hatch. Id luv to dd that... Probably wont depreciate much either..

[JonnyM3]

Originally Posted by gthal

I don't think BMW needed to do more... it is a street car that is very high performance and has decent track capability out of the box. The ZCP version will improve on that again. The GT350R is a race car that is street legal... is that REALLY what you would want the M3/4 to be? BMW could do more and then the price would be higher too. The M cars are inherent compromises and are very good at doing it. The GT350 (and especially the R) is less compromise and more focused.

Also, part of this is BMW has a pecking order... with the 3, 5, 6, etc. Ford only has the Stang (and the GT I guess now too) which is its top performance car.

Here's my take... BMW knows its market well and builds cars that meet the needs and wants of its broader market (not just us on the forum) and sells lots of cars. Yes, there are some nuts (many here) who would love more but then it would be too hard core for the doctor walking in off the street to buy the car and it would turn off a lot of their market (the general buyer) and also cause folks buying M5s and M6s to question that decision and cannibalize sales.

What BMW should do is build a GTS version that is a purely track oriented car for those who want it.

P.S. The GT350R looks awesome and would be a great track car. I bet it will have almost Z06/Viper performance. Saaa-weeet.

I love to respectfully disagree with you it would seem haha. In terms of more, I mean even as far as suspension wise. I know the ZCP will rectify many of the new Ms short comings, but I guess my gripe is unlike Mercedes, BMW is waiting to make their sales off the non ZCP models first. Which is just ///marketing. I respect how Mercedes is launching the S with the "base" C63. I do like the fact they underrated the power, but unfortunately we know all of the competitors will too. And if you wanna say they would charge more, based on the way M5s/6s are being discounted we all know BMW could've did more and charged the same price. At the end of the day Ill be much happier driving my ordered M4 than this mustang, I think, but that doesn't mean I'm not green with envy when it comes to this things V8, magnetic suspension, and weight reduction. Even solely speaking on the GT350, not the R seems like a very promising car.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by JonnyM3

I love to respectfully disagree with you it would seem haha. In terms of more, I mean even as far as suspension wise. I know the ZCP will rectify many of the new Ms short comings, but I guess my gripe is unlike Mercedes, BMW is waiting to make their sales off the non ZCP models first. Which is just ///marketing. I respect how Mercedes is launching the S with the "base" C63. I do like the fact they underrated the power, but unfortunately we know all of the competitors will too. And if you wanna say they would charge more, based on the way M5s/6s are being discounted we all know BMW could've did more and charged the same price. At the end of the day Ill be much happier driving my ordered M4 than this mustang, I think, but that doesn't mean I'm not green with envy when it comes to this things V8, magnetic suspension, and weight reduction. Even solely speaking on the GT350, not the R seems like a very promising car.

I don't disagree with a lot of this.

A couple of things to clarify is that the "magnetic suspension" is simply Ford's version of the adaptive suspension. It's simply an electronically variable damping suspension... similar to GM's, similar to BMW, etc, etc. It is not necessarily better than the M's adaptive suspension. They are all variably adaptive dampers that adjust to road conditions many times per second.

Also, MB did make mid-life cycle changes to the C63 in the last gen and I bet they do in this generation too notwithstanding the S version. I don't hold good marketing against BMW. It simply means you lease the first M for 36 months and then buy the competition version. It's good business... there's nothing wrong with good ///marketing IMO and I don't respect BMW any less for it. BMW is running a business and determined they can make the most money doing it this way and, to be honest, I would do the same thing if I were in their shoes.

[swanson]

[3er]

Originally Posted by gthal

I don't disagree with a lot of this.

A couple of things to clarify is that the "magnetic suspension" is simply Ford's version of the adaptive suspension. It's simply an electronically variable damping suspension... similar to GM's, similar to BMW, etc, etc. It is not necessarily better than the M's adaptive suspension. They are all variably adaptive dampers that adjust to road conditions many times per second.

Also, MB did make mid-life cycle changes to the C63 in the last gen and I bet they do in this generation too notwithstanding the S version. I don't hold good marketing against BMW. It simply means you lease the first M for 36 months and then buy the competition version. It's good business... there's nothing wrong with good ///marketing IMO and I don't respect BMW any less for it. BMW is running a business and determined they can make the most money doing it this way and, to be honest, I would do the same thing if I were in their shoes.

It's worth noting that GM's magnetic ride is handily superior to BMW's adaptive technology (i.e., non-magnetic). They're based on very different principles.

[Alex07M3]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

F8X is only $75k+ if you want it to be. Euro invoice on the M3 with no options is around $58k, so you can get it around $60k if you go to the right sales person and keep options light.

When you were shopping for your E92 M3, why not get Boss 302 or C6 Z06? At the time those were similar/cheaper priced and had/have better performance.

Whatever made you land on the E92 M3 is probably similar to what is making people chose F8X M3/M4 right now

Depends where you are, here in Quebec, the base price of the M4 is $75k, and the taxe is 15%, so the price can go to $100k pretty easily, specially considering that it absolutly need a 4-5k exhaust to sound just decent(actually, not even sure it's decent). And as opposed to the BMWs, the price of american cars here is almost the same as in the states, my friend bought his brand new Stingray for $53k, which was only 2-3k more then in the US if I'm correct! If it's the same story with the GT350R, there could be a massive price gap between this and an M4.

As for me getting into an E92, well I never liked any american cars before the new C7, Viper and GT350/GT350R, so I would have never considered a Boss or a C6, also not sure it was out 4 years ago when I bought my M. But one thing is sure, the main reason why I find my M is so special is because of the engine, and its also the main reason why the GT350 look so interesting, I firmly believe the F8x should have got something like it!!

[basscadet]

ZCP is a joke, I hope you aren't seriously considering that performance will be anything more than marginally (if THAT) improved over the base F8X.

Speaking of the GT350R, I don't really think giving up A/C and a REAR SEAT is worth saving a paltry 100lbs. I'd rather they just kept the rear seat in there and offer it as a delete option for the 1 in 2000 people who actually track theirs.

The M3/M4 is a daily driver and it is going to make lots of concessions to luxury and comfort. I don't think a hardcore M4 really makes any sense to BMW's target demographic.

[Roadkiller]

Originally Posted by swanson

Damn, its really getting interesting now. Gotta give Ford some props....

[WWM3]

Originally Posted by 3er

It's worth noting that GM's magnetic ride is handily superior to BMW's adaptive technology (i.e., non-magnetic). They're based on very different principles.

+1. They are not similar. Guy has some wrong information.

[Falafel Combo]

Impressive specs. Way too ricey for my taste. Damn, I would have to remove a bunch of the crap bolted on that car and part it out before I even drive it home.


Serious question. Will Ford ever make a 4 door (gran coupe) Mustang? Why so stuck in 1990? It would be the shniz! BMW is doing it. Porsche is doing it. Audi and VW are doing it. Come on guys, compete!!!

[Alex07M3]

Originally Posted by swanson

Wow that thing sound so angry!!

[Eau Rouge]

Originally Posted by Falafel Combo

Impressive specs. Way too ricey for my taste. Damn, I would have to remove a bunch of the crap bolted on that car and part it out before I even drive it home.


Serious question. Will Ford ever make a 4 door (gran coupe) Mustang? Why so stuck in 1990? It would be the shniz! BMW is doing it. Porsche is doing it. Audi and VW are doing it. Come on guys, compete!!!

All of those companies are "doing it" yet you don't find a model in their lineup that suits you?

[Falafel Combo]

Originally Posted by Alex07M3

Wow that thing sound so angry!!

Originally Posted by swanson

FWD to 0:22. Is anyone concerned about the rear end bouncing around like that after climbing the ramp. Track suspension?

[Falafel Combo]

Originally Posted by Eau Rouge

All of those companies are "doing it" yet you don't find a model in their lineup that suits you?

Of course they do. And yes, I choose to drive BMWs, but would love to see Ford compete in that market segment as well. More competition from a heavyweight like the Mustang can only be a good thing.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by Falafel Combo

Impressive specs. Way too ricey for my taste. Damn, I would have to remove a bunch of the crap bolted on that car and part it out before I even drive it home.


Serious question. Will Ford ever make a 4 door (gran coupe) Mustang? Why so stuck in 1990? It would be the shniz! BMW is doing it. Porsche is doing it. Audi and VW are doing it. Come on guys, compete!!!

Taurus SHO was their try. The early ones were hideous but fun to drive.

[CirrusSR22]

Originally Posted by basscadet

Speaking of the GT350R, I don't really think giving up A/C and a REAR SEAT is worth saving a paltry 100lbs. I'd rather they just kept the rear seat in there and offer it as a delete option for the 1 in 2000 people who actually track theirs.

The M3/M4 is a daily driver and it is going to make lots of concessions to luxury and comfort. I don't think a hardcore M4 really makes any sense to BMW's target demographic.

Originally Posted by Falafel Combo

Impressive specs. Way too ricey for my taste. Damn, I would have to remove a bunch of the crap bolted on that car and part it out before I even drive it home.

You guys are describing the normal GT350. Fewer aero bits, AC and rear seat standard, daily driver suspension set up, etc. Why modify a GT350R into a GT350?

[Randy M]

I decided to pass on the M4 when the BMW dealer sold me a traded in Boss 302. At the time I figured the B302 would get me through summer then I'd order a future ZCP M4 with a color I'd prefer, or a future GT350. Now I have the 1st GT350 order reserved at my Ford dealer but if the opportunity comes up to get this R model I just might not be able to pass it up.

I still have my eye on what all the Euro makes are doing but imo we're seeing a change in American offerings, and that makes the Euro offerings look a little indulgent in their pricing. Ford in particular is making some great cars these days. If you haven't taken a look at a new Mustang you might want to, lest you feel you're too good or your status as a upper shelf human would preclude you from doing so.

Word has it that Ford is taking it to Le Mans. If they beat some Porsche ass it may change the general sentiment toward American cars.

[TunedM2C]

The GT350 and GT350R order form has been leaked.

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15542q

[ixse]

Avalanch grey w track pk blk recaros .. My good old evo track days are calling lol
Although this is mustang.. This car def will get people emotionally attached.

[sycd]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

Actually there is a Electronics Package that includes dual zone A/C, 8in Navi, audio system, etc.

Thus adding back a chunk of the weight savings, and making the people getting that package posers and sissies

[ixse]

Originally Posted by sycd

Thus adding back a chunk of the weight savings, and making the people getting that package posers and sissies

not sure about the AC part.. Even here in cali.. You go willow springs during summer.. No AC = immediate dehydration and death lol